The cost of Brexit

The rational defense of for leaving the EU is that 17.4 million UK voters explicitly and affirmatively supported the proposition by referendum. Saying that no one has ever come up with a single reason for leaving the Union has the intellectual merit of a child's tantrum. There are 17.4 million reasons for leaving, and a slightly smaller number for remaining. The rationale and reasons for remaining fell short, lost, failed. There simply weren't enough of them.

Super moderation requires at least assuming an adult posture, and pulling-on one's big boy trousers.

Brexit seems to me a poor choice, but there is certainly some minority interest among the Netherlands population for also leaving the EU, as in every EU-member nation. To call the choice expressed by millions of UK voters in 2016 to be without any reason or rationale can't be considered an indication of a moderate mindset.

Every one of the 17.4 million who voted to leave has a reason. They're as valid as anyone else's reason for voting they way they did, or for not voting at all.

 

The UK has 0.1 percent of the world's corn export market, ranking 37th. Any decline as a result of Brexit will be insignificant, even to British corn farmers.

 

Australia feuds with UK over tech company Huawei which has been accused of spying for Chinese government

A diplomatic spat is building between the UK and Australia over leaked conversations British Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab had during a recent visit.

Mr Raab met with Australia’s Intelligence and Security Committee and the Foreign Affairs Committee during a visit that was aimed at securing closer ties in the UK’s post-Brexit era.

Parts of the conversation were then leaked to the media, revealing how Australia criticised the UK in allowing China’s tech company Huawei to play a role in its 5G network

A planned visit to the UK by the Australia intelligence committee has now been pushed back as punishment for the UKs decision.

The ABC said “Members of the Intelligence Committee say they are now instead planning to visit security agencies in the United States, partly to send a blunt message to their UK counterparts.”

“If this is the attitude of the British, we may as well visit the Americans who we can trust more on this stuff,” an intelligence committee member told the ABC

Australia feuds with UK over tech company Huawei which has been accused of spying for Chinese government

 

What a laugh !!! - where do you think both Australia and the US get a lot of their so called intelligence ??? - From GCHQ in Cheltenham - that's where.

 

Spot on.
I'm an aussie however, if i was looking to live in an overseas country such as England i would want to learn about what Brexit is and why is it happening.
I'm after answers on why such a costly thing has come into fruition for many English people.

 

thank you for this reply

 

About 60,000 EU residents each year vote not to leave just the EU, but all of life. Reasons for committing suicide don't have to satisfy anyone posting in this thread, and all 60,000 who do it each year have their reasons. To say that all 60,000 were irrational or couldn't articulate a single reason is a non-starter.

It takes a much less compelling reason to vote to remain or leave something as irrelevant to the average person's daily life as the EU is. The outcome of a coin toss or the loss of a bet on a sporting event is more than reason enough for an individual to weigh-in one way or another on something like the prospective continuation of EU membership.

There's nothing irrational about treating something trivial as being trivial. Remain, leave, or don't care? It's a trivial matter in the grand scheme of things. Those writing and seeking treatises and manifestos on the subject, and "super moderators" having childish online tantrums, are those behaving irrationally.

 

There may be more intangible benefits to Brexit that no one has considered yet. I'm not British so I can't say what those are...an increased sense of sovereignty perhaps, and a peace of mind that comes with it? I don't know, y'all tell me.

The American colonies wanted to separate from Britain because of, among other things, taxes. But taxes were actually higher after the revolution than before. Yet nobody suggested reuniting with Britain because of this. The founders wanted independence no matter the cost because it was important to them.

 

Bea

LOL my poor Bea that doesn’t actually address the criticism already presented of that stance – I’d have had more respect for you if you had address them that just regurgitating the same old crap.

LOL but I have noticed you are not coming up with a single rational reason for leaving.

Explicitly means in a clear and detailed manner, leaving no room for confusion or doubt – but that was the very opposite of the Brexit vote.

People voted for differing version of Brexit that were often incompatible with others, so one type of deal that would be acceptable to one or two groups would be vehemently opposed by other groups of leavers. And a leave without a deal (that wasn’t even canvassed for in the referendum) that some want is strongly opposed by many other types of leavers. Also remember that some people voted because they were bamboozled by the lies been told by the leaver leadership.

The remain vote was to remain

LOL – as I’ve said I’d respect you and your post a lot more if you actually addressed the outstanding criticisms rather than repeat the same dribble.

Were you a leaver? If so what were you reasons for wanting to leave did they have a rational base could they stand up to scrutiny. Was yours a wise choice made for sound rational reasons?

If you were not and you have said - Brexit seems to me a poor choice

Then what were you reasons for opposing it?

 

Bea

Oh sorry that’s quite funny – you seem be saying that voting for Brexit was like voting for suicide LOL

Anyway let’s try and be serious – yes of course there are many reasons for someone contemplating suicide – if it was connected to depression or mental health problems I think I’d try and get the person help or at least to seek it before doing anything rash.

A friend of mine slit her wrists, I didn’t just shrug say ok that’s your choice and let her bleed out, I got help.

If it was about someone with a clear and sound mind who has say, a terminal illness and suffering from constant pain that could not really be controlled, I’d have more sympathy with their choice.

But that is the thing you work out if a reason is rational or not by seeing if it stands up to scrutiny.

Is been dumped by a boyfriend a rational and reasonable reason to killing yourself or is been in constant agony with no hopes of relief one?

As I keep pointing out no leaver seems able to come up with any rational argument for why Brexit would be good for the UK and its people.

You still haven’t.

 

Bea

Sorry but this just makes me think you don’t really know much about the issues – can you explain what your thinking is here?

What the hell does that mean? You seem to be saying that one of the biggest political and economic events in modern British history is less important than the coin toss at a secondary school football match – again can you explain your think here?

What do you mean by the ‘grand scheme of things’?

What scheme? What things?

What is your aim because if you don’t have one, others do, and if you don’t care they get to choose what happens.

Is the economic prosperity of you country trivial, if the policies of a political faction are likely to cause many people hardship is that trivial?

Is a ‘oh nothing matters’ attitude to economic and political issues that have real world consequences sensible or childish?

We have many examples from history of where not caring can lead

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

 

@Balbus

one question for you mate. Were you a leaver or a stayer?
I may not of actually caught which party you voted for sorry.

 

Dice

Well I’m British and I’ve been discussing this for the past 40 years or so and I’ve not really found any (we had Eurosceptics here in the UK long before Brexit)

And although I’ve repeatedly asked no leaver seems able to come up with anything rational either.

The ‘sovereignty’ thing doesn’t really make sense when examined as I’ve pointed out several times.

And yes those American didn’t suggest reuniting with Britain because of the taxes because they had just fought a bloody and acrimonious war with Britain – however there was a rebellion against the federal government called the Whiskey Rebellion that was put down through military action by George Washington.

Anyway there are several problems with the comparison, I’ll go through a couple.

First we have not just had a war with the EU, membership has been rather good for us.

Then remember the opposition to taxation was more about been taxed but not having representation, (not having a say in policies and regulations). But as a member of the EU we did have representation in the EU and a say in its policies and regulations (we suggested many) and the UK always basically had control over our taxes. Leaving could actually make that position worse, all models of Brexit leave us with less control (Norway, Canada, WTO) were we would have to follow rules we didn’t have a say in.

 

It is obvious that your obsession with it has kept you from doing or thinking about much else. That's a wonderful thing for the UK and its people, more than reason enough for all your neighbors and the populations of all surrounding villages to have voted for it.

It's probably been wonderful for your therapist and pharmacist, or perhaps your inpatient mental health facility - on the couch, taking your meds, and filling a bed that might otherwise go empty. It may keep you hunkered down and tapping away about it for years. Very good things for the rest of us who have little interest in your obsession with the trivial and insignificant. I'd call it a win-win. You have your life's purpose, and won't do any real harm to anyone else, as you are hopelessly tangled in that ball of yarn of your own imagining. Yes, Brexit has offered the world a wonderful benefit in that way, and it shows all indications of delivering on it. Just think of all the mischief you might have gotten into if you had anything of consequence with which to involve yourself. These are wonderful things for all of mankind. Have fun.

 

He drew a picture of a penis on the ballot paper

 

VG

LOL I’m still waiting for your promised rationally based defence of Brexit -

Can you give a rational reason why you think Brexit will be good for the UK and its people?

Not wishful thinking

Not bluster

Not bullshit

A rational and reasonable argument

I mean we have been doing discussing this issue for over three years here and NO leaver has yet come up with one but…..

And please don’t claim like before that you have but refuse to say where or what it was I’m wise to that one

 

Bea

I really think you need to calm down and stop getting so het up - ranting like this doesn’t help anyone – you need to sit down and read up on the issues, educate yourself.

Because I’m sure you are not the only one that has realised you still couldn’t actually present a rational argument as to why Brexit will be good for the UK and its people.

I mean even you must realise that just saying it will be ‘wonderful’ is rather a pathetic excuse for an argument.

 

Yeah but Britain will be able to stop those dirty foreigners from coming who, from what I can glean from the messages on this board and interviews with random blokes on the BBC, are solely responsible for all British ills and their absence will signal the resurgence of a new Empire.

 

I read in an English newspaper online that Britain has paid more than half a trillion pounds to the EU since it joined. isn't that quite a price to pay?