The Coming Collapse

Discussion in 'Politics' started by fraggle_rock, May 27, 2018.

  1. fraggle_rock

    fraggle_rock Member

    Chris Hedges has always been a personal favorite of mine because he is so dark and depressing. For a while now he has been telling everyone that the US is on the verge of collapse.

    The Coming Collapse

    Basically, Trump is currently hastening an economic apocalypse that will be far worse than 2008... and after that happens, pretty much everything is going to end up in the hands of a few oligarchs, similar to what happened in Russia. Trump's crony capitalism isn't like the previous forms of crony capitalism-- it's the same system at play in North Korea, China, third world countries--- he doesn't help people because the American economy unfortunately depends on it (Obama/Bush in 08/09), he helps them because they are loyal to him. He doesn't give a shit about the economy, the future, anything. He is too stupid and ignorant and out of his depth. He's a fucking reality TV star, nothing more. The vultures know it, and are now making sure they get to feast on America's corpse... while watching from their gated communities and guarded strongholds while everything else turns to shit.

    My theory is that this is part of Putin's plan... the Russians know how their own country fell apart, and Trump is their revenge on America. They are sowing divisions, pushing people's buttons, etc... because they want everything to fall apart. Trump is exactly what they needed to accomplish this.

    Fuck knows, maybe Putin and co have enough saved up that they will actually be able to buy America after its influence is completely destroyed. Who exactly is going to stop them?

    And when the Chinese state capitalists, the Russian oligarchs, the corrupt foreign dictators are finally allowed to purchase America with the profits they've squeezed from their own nations... well, I am sure we will end up seeing some pretty massive culture shifts, none of them positive in any way.
     
    scratcho, snowtiggernd and Okiefreak like this.
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  3. fraggle_rock

    fraggle_rock Member

    Trump isn't responsible for the decline/collapse-- he is merely the one accelerating it.

    Trump's racism and xenophobia are actually perfectly suited to the current climate... when the people don't have anyone willing to offer solutions to their problems, then rage and hostility will do.

    He isn't turning America into a shithole-- it was already a shithole. Hillary wasn't going to save it, but Trump is running it into the ground.

    We're at the stage now where the vultures know it's about to die, and are jockeying for the best positions to pick apart the carcass.
     
    scratcho and eggsprog like this.
  4. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

    Those checks and balances are real but fragile. We have a Republican Congress that seems reluctant to stand up to Trump, and was willing to sell their souls for tax cuts. Meanwhile, Mitch McConnell is working overtime with Trump to pack the courts with young right wingers thin on law but heavy on partisan politics. Fox News is essentially State television spewing forth a steady diet of pro-Trump propaganda. And there is constant warfare against the press, Rod Rosenstein, the Special Council, and anybody else who can stand against Trump. My guess is this will not turn out well for us. I hope I'm wrong. If Trump is successful in torpedoing the Mueller investigation, or the Dems don't do well in the coming elections, I'll know the end is near. Unfortunately, until an economic collapse actually happens, people will deny there's a problem. And when it does happen, it will be too late. Poenitentiam agite !
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2018
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  5. fraggle_rock

    fraggle_rock Member

    The checks and balances won't matter when we hit full crisis mode.
    The Mueller investigation won't matter either.

    Everyone saw what happened after 9/11...
     
  6. in a word CHAOS
     
    scratcho likes this.
  7. Running Horse

    Running Horse His job is to shed light, not to master

    Americans are strong & if the above actually happens we as a nation will come out the better for it. There are many who won't stand idly by & allow the rich to take such overt control. There will be war & the staunch defenders of liberty will prevail or go down in history as the last great stand for democracy & equality for all.
     
  8. tkm954

    tkm954 sub

  9. tkm954

    tkm954 sub

    Bring It!!
     
    pensfan13 likes this.
  10. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

    Under present circumstances, I think the description of the U.S. as "the last great stand for democracy & equality for all" seems laughable. "Idiocracy and inequality for all" would be more like it. Still, relatively speaking. our country has so much more to offer than the opposition. The model offered by Russia, Trump and the ethno-nationalists is a Mafia-syle dictatorship devoid of meaningful rights and liberties. I'm certainly not about to stand idly by and allow this to happen. But it's happening not just in the U.S. but throughout Europe, as well. Americans need to wake up and smell the coffee. Preventive medicine is a lot easier than emergency care after the catastrophe has occurred.
     
    pineapple08, scratcho and Balbus like this.
  11. quark

    quark Parts Unknown

    Maybe it's "Putins's plan" to make Americans say things that make them seem weak in order to sow discord into public life. "How dare you say America is great, you must be a Russian".

    What has it been, 2 years? Still going on about this? Fuck. What a shame. If you have children I hope you give them this much attention.
     
  12. Irminsul

    Irminsul Valkyrie

    I think that when someone has been saying something "for a while" and it doesn't ever happen then that someone should lose credibility. :p
     
    tumbling.dice likes this.
  13. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Super Moderator

    Writing some resent posts and reading some old ones the above brought to mind the French Revolution.

    Now history doesn’t repeat itself, circumstances are never the same, but you can draw simplistic parallels that can highlight possible warning signs.

    Before the revolution the French government (the King) was deeply in debt.

    This was because on the one hand he had dabbled in foreign wars (the American War of Independent being one of them) and on the other because the wealthiest groups in the kingdom the Church (first estate) and the nobility (second estate) paid so little in tax that even without wars the income hardly match the outgoings.

    The main tax burden fell on the third estate (the commoners) made up of workers (the labourers and artisans) and the middle class (shopkeepers and merchants).

    Change was needed but many in the church and nobility fought against any type of tax reform that spread the burden more equably.

    When bad times came it was the workers who felt it first then the middle classes and when the tipping point came many in the church and nobility never saw it coming because they didn’t give much thought to what was happening to the commoners.

    Now if you squint at this you could see the place of Church and nobility been taken over by the Corporations and the super-rich and the US has indulged in foreign wars (the Iraq fiasco come to mind). Also for other reasons (outsourcing and technological advances) the US ‘commoners’ are feeling increasingly under pressure.

    But before you shout ‘Viva la revolution’ and storm your local metaphorical Bastille I would remind people that what started in idealism resulted in years of the terror, the dictatorship of Napoleon and what many historians call the actual fist world war.
     
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  14. Running Horse

    Running Horse His job is to shed light, not to master

    I was referring to a particular portion of Americans who still hold the values & ideals espoused in the constitution near & dear.
     
  15. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Super Moderator

    Beat

    Just curious but who specifically are these people you are thinking of?

    I mean as is known that the values and ideals espoused in the constitution are open to interpretation.
     
  16. tumbling.dice

    tumbling.dice I Am Only An Egg Lifetime Supporter HipForums Supporter

    And oh how the socialists among us would just love for the US to collapse. Finally, vindication!!
     
  17. Running Horse

    Running Horse His job is to shed light, not to master

    Folks that I've met over the years. Folks who hold to the values our founding fathers wrote of & who wish to see the U.S. return to a constitutional base instead of whatever the hell we have now. Apologies I can't be more specific I don't know if there's a politically correct term for this sort.

    Also yes I agree on the open for interpretation bit. As long as that interpretation strengthens the underlyin' democratic principles of our nation it seems fine by me.
     
  18. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Super Moderator

    Beat

    Still not sure what you mean many of the founding fathers were slave owners for example others were not interested in democracy and feared the common people as a mob (at the beginning only 10% of Americans had the vote).

    Would you want a return to that?

    LOL if there isn’t a politically correct term for what you are promoting them it’s probably not correct politically.

    What not just come out and say what you mean, if you are too afraid to express what you think what does that tell you about those thoughts?

    Well I’m all for democracy
     
  19. Running Horse

    Running Horse His job is to shed light, not to master

    I don't know the politically correct term for that particular group because I don't keep up with politics in any major sense. As to the foundin' fathers I was referencing specifically men like George Washington, Ben Franklin, & Tomas Jefferson. However for future reference you shouldn't believe everything you hear or read about history. It is written by the victors after all & democracy hasn't had many in almost two hundred years. Also slave ownin' was expected back then. Don't excuse the act but it does explain it. As example of this & Washington's views on slavery I offer
    Ten Facts About Washington & Slavery
     
  20. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

    Why would somebody who doesn't "keep up with politics in any major sense" think we'd care about his opinions on the subject? There's some really scary stuff goin' on in Washington: A President who has been trashin' our closest allies, cozyn' up to the head of a hostile foreign power, startn' a trade war that could bring down our economy, and callin' our free press enemies of the people. That's Commie talk! George, Ben, and Tom are turnin' over in thar graves, but they won't help us if we won't keep up and help do somethin' 'bout it. After all, didn't Ben tell us somethin' like that: "God helps those who helps themselves."
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2018
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