The Book, On the Taboo Against Knowing Who you Are

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by MeAgain, Aug 18, 2021.

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  1. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Being caught up in a dispute about language is just another way of avoiding the basic reality of the world.
    Who cares about the English language, logic, fractal geometry, or chaos theory? IT defies every attempt at definition.
    The universe flows in an infinite array of never ending patterns and we are part of the flow, but:
     
    MeAgain, Oct 9, 2021
    #161
    ~Zen~ likes this.
  3. ~Zen~

    ~Zen~ California Tripper Administrator

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    I love this thread :)
     
    ~Zen~, Oct 9, 2021
    #162
  5. wooleeheron

    wooleeheron Brain Damaged Lifetime Supporter

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    "It" is a pronoun, usually used to describe something explicit, with clear dictionary definitions. The only reason Watts struggles with the term, is because he's unaware of the second grammar of the English language, and is lucky to have any knowledge of linguistic analysis. He should read Wittgenstein, but it might only confuse him.
     
    wooleeheron, Oct 9, 2021
    #163
  7. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    "IT" is a personal pronoun in this case used to signify a 3rd person subject or object which can not be defined by words.
    It has been capitalized to signify that "IT" refers to a specific instance of that which can not be described.

    It is all-pervading and unfailing. ~ Lao Tzu
    ​
    I fail to see any struggle by Watts.
     
    MeAgain, Oct 9, 2021
    #164
  9. wooleeheron

    wooleeheron Brain Damaged Lifetime Supporter

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    The most commonly used definition for it has nothing to do with whether anything is "indescribable". Saying "It was hot" most certainly doesn't mean we cannot define "day" or "weather". Nor is the Tao "indescribable" or nobody would read the Tao Te Ching.
     
    wooleeheron, Oct 9, 2021
    #165
  11. sosmartamadeus

    sosmartamadeus Members

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    I haven't read the Tao te Ching, so it is indescribable.

    I get where Me Again is coming from, but it's a whole lotta words to explain mystery. Still, some people, if not told, will believe all knowledge is at our fingertips.

    At root, no matter how much information you load into your brain, you're still at the mercy of an unsolved, and unsolvable, mystery.

    There's nothing to be said. You cannot offer me my life, and you can't put it in words.
     
    sosmartamadeus, Oct 9, 2021
    #166
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  13. wooleeheron

    wooleeheron Brain Damaged Lifetime Supporter

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    Bullshit is indescribable, until it becomes demonstrable. Watts didn't just use "bullshit" instead of "it", because its anathema in his culture, and the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are is a taboo against laughing at the billionaire riding a horse naked in the parade.
     
    wooleeheron, Oct 10, 2021
    #167
  15. sosmartamadeus

    sosmartamadeus Members

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    Oh.
     
    sosmartamadeus, Oct 10, 2021
    #168
  17. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Getting back to the mystery.
    All the previous words by me and Watts posted above come down to an attempt to describe that which is beyond our immediate understanding of the world.
    We live in the present moment and can only know what our senses allow us to know in this life.
    But death awaits us all and with it the end of consciousness and thus the ability to know anything at all.

    When we die we return from whence we came, as if we never existed. We know nothing, first hand, of the world before we were born, and we will know nothing of it after we die.
    The same can be said of the universe, it didn't exist, now it does, and at some point it will not exist (if we subscribe to the Big Bang theory).
    But if it happened once, it can happen again.
    When I die, I forget who I was, I cease to exist. But a new "I" returns with every baby born. Each baby is born with no knowledge of the past, no concept of being an individual entity, and no previous experiences to draw on. The same as the birth of you and I. The process repeats itself endlessly over and over again as the universe continually gives rise to new "I"s to witness new experiences. The universe is:
    And you are IT.
    ###​
     
    MeAgain, Oct 10, 2021
    #169
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  19. sosmartamadeus

    sosmartamadeus Members

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    I don't get going from saying we can only know this moment and everything else is a mystery to saying we know what comes before this incarnation and after death.
     
    sosmartamadeus, Oct 10, 2021
    #170
  21. ~Zen~

    ~Zen~ California Tripper Administrator

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    It is what it is... unless you believe in an afterlife.
     
    ~Zen~, Oct 10, 2021
    #171
  23. wooleeheron

    wooleeheron Brain Damaged Lifetime Supporter

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    He's using the Buddha's statement, "The past is only a memory, the future is only a dream" for a logical foundation. While its logical, the simple truth is it contradicts observations. Time expresses particle-wave duality, meaning the past is never quite the same again, and the future is never what it used to be. All his confusion could easily have been avoided, if he had worked on his sense of humor instead, and read up on modern physics.
     
    wooleeheron, Oct 10, 2021
    #172
  25. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    I don't believe Watts said we, as individuals, can know what comes before birth or after death.

    After you die, he does say the lack of experience will be the same as it was, or wasn't, before you were born.
     
    MeAgain, Oct 10, 2021
    #173
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