The Bible

Yes, I'm aware there are more gospels. There's one of Judas as well. And some other apocryphs. You have to keep in mind that old stuff always will change when a new religion is formed, it's normal. Old dogma's will be abandoned or assimilated to the suitings of those who shape what comes next. I also have my doubts with the decisions made in for instance the council of Nicaea but there wasn't a catholic church at that point. It formed out of those councils and developed later on to control the masses. So the leaving out of several books has not so much to do with that purpose at that point. It was mainly to create clarity I think.

 

A lot of the "lost gospels" we're dated long after the origonal bible was put together

 

"It was mainly to create clarity I think."
Clarity!? That's hilarious. Matthew 17:10-13 has Jesus speaking of reincarnation, and Christians don't even know it.

 

Because it didn't fit in the new christian religion. I didn't say it was objective clarity. You have always to take in account that the composers of the bible had lots of different insights than us. In lots of departments they had less insights then us, but in some other they may have stood closer to the original views. Overall they stood inbetween both the scriptures and us so they took it upon them to shape their new belief. Yes, it's easy to dismiss them all as radical controlfreaks in this day and to regard it all as hilarious.

 

I think they didn't like aliens, that's why the left out the book of Enoch, who like Elijah was taken up to heaven in a fiery chariot. I've been within 100 feet of one, so I don't have to believe, I know.

 

Perhaps you can imagine then that they 'knew' different things.

 

Not really proof of reincarnation.

Elisha asked that a double portion of Elijah's spirit be given to him as he departed the Earth. Elijah said that this was a difficult request, but would be granted to him if a certain thing came to pass, a sign.

Elisha had a spirit of his own, but the spirit of Elijah came upon him as well.

In the same way, John the Baptist had a soul of his own, but was also indwelt with Elijah's spirit and ministry.

In the demonic world, multiple spirits can inhabit a single human being.

And He (Jesus) asked him (the man), "What is thy name?" And he answered, saying, "My name is Legion: for we are many." Mark 5:9

Common estimates for a "legion", a term borrowed from the Roman army is 6,000, giving us an approximate idea of how many spirits lived in that one man.

 

Way to go garden. You blew clarity right out the window. The Jews, Muslims and Christians ALL worship the God of Abraham. IT'S THE SAME GOD! They all have the same first five books of the old testament. And they all DEMONIZE the other religions. The Catholics used to murder both the Muslims and Jews during the crusades. The Jews DEMONIZED Christ. And the Muslims DEMONIZE both Christians and Jews as infidels. As long as you hold on to your BELIEFS, you can't see the truth. i.e. the Catholics used to BELIEVE that the world was flat, and burned people at the stake as heretics for BELIEVING it wasn't flat. There are "so called" Christian republicans today that DEMONIZE Mormons as not being Christian, even though they worship Christ as the son of God. Those same "so called" Christians DEMONIZE Obama as not being a Christian because he has a Muslim name, even though he professes to be a Christian. So their BELIEFS condemn them. There are so many "so called" Christians that say "I BELIEVE in Jesus, so I'm saved." But Christ said, "There are many that will come to me on the last day and say, didn't I cast out demons in your name, and didn't I prophecy in your name?" And Christ will say, "I know you not, you are workers of iniquity." In the bible it says that God created ALL things. That means there is nothing that God did not create. God created EVIL! God created the Muslims, Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Mayans and all the rest. The truth is in all, but it's human PERCEPTION that is lacking. That's why there is disagreement. The Catholics, Baptists, Mormons, Lutherans, Methodists, Presbyterians, and Pentecostals all say, "My God is better than your God, and if you don't BELIEVE the way I do, you're going to hell." The Sunni and Shiite Muslims are the same way. There are divisions in the Jewish religion too. BUT IT'S ALL HUMAN PERCEPTION! So "Seek the truth and you will find it. And the truth will set you free." But to say, "I have my bible, and that's good enough for me." is refusing to learn the truth.

 

Happily they do not all say that, but a lot of them did. Refusing to learn the truth sounds a bit radical, I think that only counts for radical stupidity like proclaiming Obama to be a muslim because of his name and such. Proclaiming your god is better than someone elses is pretty lame as well, I agree. But some might just beg to differ with your truth. And righteously so. Where it comes to God not much seems absolute true to me.

 

Maybe my choice of words was not clear, but saying that I follow the Bible's teachings to the best of my ability does not mean that I accuse others of not doing the same.

 

" But some might just beg to differ with your truth."
The truth is not mine. The truth is the truth. And being human, my mind can not contain God. The bible can not contain God. And like those that wrote the bible, the Torah, and the Koran, I can only express what I PERCEIVE as the truth.

 

In addition to the Holy Bible, I also think that many people will enjoy the works of Gurney Norman, who among other things wrote the epic story of David Ray in the margins of the Whole Earth Catalog. It was a pleasure to share their journey back to D.R.'s homeland.

Many hip people find great wisdom in Annie Dillard's book, "Pilgrim at Tinker Creek".

And some would argue that Henry David Thoreau was the first hippie with his book "Walden" published in 1854.

My older relatives tell me that "The Hobbit" by J.R.R. Tolkien was in a lot of hip backpacks in the late 60's. I enjoyed the book and am looking forward to the movie.

And I love the poems and essays of Wendell Berry, another frequent visitor to the Whole Earth Catalog and gadfly and friend of Utopian dreamer Stewart Brand.

 

Garden,
I think you would enjoy the JOSHUA books by Joseph F. Girzone. And THE BRINGERS OF THE DAWN by Barbara Marciniak will give you lots to think about.

 

"Nice, typical 19th century occult science."
I got to thinking that Asmodean should be able and willing to give at least a couple of "typical" examples, because I haven't seen Blavatsky's equal since she wrote THE SECRET DOCTRINE over 120 years ago. If you please kind sir.

 

Asmodean,
Your name is very similar to this one. Any connection?

22. And I Solomon, on hearing this, bound him more
carefully, and ordered him to be flogged with thongs
of ox-hide26, and to tell me humbly what was his
name and what his business. And he answered me
thus: "I am called Asmodeus among mortals, and my
business is to plot against the newly wedded, so that
they may not know one another. And I sever them
utterly by many calamities, and I waste away the
beauty of virgin women, and estrange their hearts."
23. And I said to him: "Is this thy only business?"
And he answered me: "I transport men into fits ofmadness and desire, when they have wives of their
own, so that they leave them, and go off by [21] night
and day to others that belong to other men; with the
result that they commit sin, and fall into murderous
deeds.27"
24. And I adjured him by the name of the Lord
Sabaôth, saying: "Fear God, Asmodeus, and tell me
by what angel thou art frustrated." But he said: "By
Raphael, the archangel that stands before the throne
of God. But the liver and gall of a fish put me to
flight, when smoked over ashes of the tamarisk28." I
again asked him, and said: "Hide not aught from me.
For I am Solomon, son of David, King of Israel. Tell
me the name of the fish which thou reverest." And
he answered: "It is the Glanos29 by name, and is
found in the rivers of Assyria; wherefore it is that I
roam about in those parts."
25. And I said to him: "Hast thou nothing else about
thee, Asmodeus?" And he answered: "The power of
God knoweth, which hath bound me with the
indissoluble bonds of yonder one's seal, that
whatever I have told thee is true. I pray thee, King
Solomon, condemn me not to [go into] water." But I
smiled, and said to him: "As the Lord God of my
fathers liveth, I will lay iron on thee to wear. But
thou shalt also make the clay for the entire
construction of the Temple, treading it down with
thy feet." And I ordered them to give him ten waterjars
to carry water in. And the demon groaned
terribly, and did the work I ordered him to do. And
this I did, because that fierce demon Asmodeus
knew even the future. And I Solomon glorified God,
who gave wisdom to me Solomon his servant. And
the liver of the fish and its gall I hung on the spike of
a reed30, and burned it over Asmodeus because of his
being so strong, and his unbearable malice was thus
frustrated.

 

Garden said, "In the demonic world, multiple spirits can inhabit a single human being.

And He (Jesus) asked him (the man), "What is thy name?" And he answered, saying, "My name is Legion: for we are many." Mark 5:9"

The testament of Solomon enslaves many of these demons to build the temple.

51. And I praised the Lord God of heaven and earth,
and bade another demon come forward to me; and
there came before me one in the form of a lion
roaring. And he stood and answered me saying: "O
king, in the form which I have, I am a spirit quite
incapable of being perceived. Upon all men who lie
prostrate with sickness I leap, coming stealthily
along; and I render the man weak, so that his habit
of body is enfeebled. But I have also another glory, O
king. I cast out demons, and I have legions under my
control. And I am capable of being received1 in my
dwelling-places, along with all the demons
belonging to the legions under me." But I Solomon,
on hearing this, asked him: "What is thy name?" But
he answered: "Lion-bearer, Rath2 in kind." And I said
to him: "How art thou to be frustrated along with thy
legions? What angel is it that frustrates thee?" And
he answered: "If I tell thee my name, I bind not
myself alone, but also the legions of demons under
me.52. So I said to him: "I adjure thee in the name of the
God Sabaoth, to tell me by what name thou art
frustrated along with thy host." And the spirit
answered me: "The 'great among men,' who is to
suffer many things at the hands of men, whose name
is the figure 644, which is Emmanuel; he it is who
has bound us, and who will then come and plunge
us from the steep1 under water. He is noised abroad
in the three letters which bring him down.
53. And I Solomon, on hearing this, glorified God,
and condemned his legion to carry wood from the
thicket. And I condemned the [29] lion-shaped one
himself to saw up the wood small with his teeth, for
burning in the unquenchable furnace for the Temple
of God.

 

Hehe, yes but indirectly. I took this name from a fantasy book by Robert Jordan (Wheel of time) and I learned later that the name for this character was derived from Asmodeus indeed.

By the way, I was just appreciating that part you posted. I do not claim to know her equal, just that it seemed typical 19th century to me. :2thumbsup:

 

Wheel of time sounds ominous, yet intriguing. Demons give me the willies.

 

Have to admit I'm not so fond on the name as I once was I also still have to finish the Wheel of time, since when I read those books it wasn't complete yet. Only read the first 9 or 10 books, I think there are 12. It kind of drags on a bit too, I'm not sure I would recommend it in this thread. I'd recommend it to fantasy fans though.

 

A few hippy books you might consider are "Game of Life" by Timothy Leary (tarot), "Ecotopia" by Ernest Callenbach (environmentalism), the Whole Earth Catalog, "Doors of Perception" by Aldous Huxley (drugs), "Capital" by Karl Marx (communism), and "The Mustard Seed" by Rajneesh (commentary on the Gospel of Thomas).