The 2nd Amendment

Balbus

It's a choice. We don't and they do. Even if I had something to fear, I'd likely not. From what I can see, it doesn't matter if they don't have to or do think they have to, they do. I can't say I've been satisfied with a few reasons why, and it doesn't always make sense to me. But I do realise sometimes it's undefinable and unexplainable. I've indefinably been satisfied with what I've read to determine that it isn't driven by fear, and they (Siq and Deviate) are not violent people.
It could well be for the purposes of a threat. So what?

I'm not speaking for them. Why does there always have to be a 'why'?
What I'm saying is that I don't have to have every little thing explained and critiqued to the nth degree.
It can be, because it just is.

 

I just think you are driving all life out of this now.

 

OdonII

Which implies their fear must be very great indeed for them to do it.

Ah you are not a rationalist, sorry I am. I believe people should ask questions and postulate from the answers (or the lack of answers).

OK you go on ‘feeling’ I prefer something a little more rational.

I don’t think I have even implied that they are violent people (although I don’t know them well).

My theory is that there is a general attitude among many Americans that accepts threat of violence, intimidation and suppression as legitimate means of societal control and this mindset gets in the way of them actually working toward solutions to their social and political problems.

As I’ve said you are not a rationalist.

Its called debate, it’s also the bedrock of education and science. I mean people could have just accepted lightening as pretty or a sign from the gods, and then told others to stop trying to explain it or criticise their ideas but then we would probably still be living in caves.

If you don’t want to debate that’s up to you, but I’d ask why you seem so intend on disrupting it?

To which I’d ask why?

 

“Over-thinking ruins you. Ruins the situation…”

Oh a quote to warm the heart of any would-be tyrant.

Don’t ask why, don’t question, ‘oh little lemming don’t ask why we are walking toward a cliff that’s over-thinking things and that will only make you worried and ruin the surprise…so keep walking…a little further…a little…oh dear…’

 

Balbus

Does your daughter ever ask you: 'Why, Daddy?,' you answer as best you can, but she then asks: 'But, why, Daddy?'
This can go on and on and on.

I'm not a complete rationalist, but I am a fairly ardent realist.

It doesn't have to be a fear, It can be a need or a want, perhaps a desire.
All words you, perhaps, don't like about gun ownership.

You've asked questions and seemingly received answers that don't satisfy you, and then complained when people just get frustrated and respond with: 'Just because.' It feels like you are waiting for them to satisfy your theory even if that means twisting their words.
Have't you suggested, Siq, for e.g, has a bedroom full of guns 'just in case' - when he, infact, has two?
Have you not tried to say that there is no other reason to own a gun other than because you have fear, and want to threaten people?
Can't you accept that some people hold no fear in regards to owning a gun?
It can be as simple as that.
Asking: 'But, why?' over and over again just seems like you are waiting for a particular answer, rather than accepting a simple truth, and a persons word.

I like debate. I just think the debate about 'just in case' is rinsed out. I'm just now debating your motives, which I think at this point is slightly more interesting. Obviously others can totally tell me I'm wrong, and continue the other debate with you if they so wish. I'm not stopping them.
I'd be interested on their take on what I have said, to be honest.

 

I tend to ask: 'Is that true?' rather than asking 'why?'. I think you can over-think 'why?'. I also think 'why?' can be written between the lines.

What do you think about the rest of the quote?

 

OdonII

The ‘why game’ is great we have tremendous fun playing it. Are you saying that in your opinion asking questions is childish?

How do you know what is real if you are not that interested in asking questions or looking at things rationally? For example one persons ‘terrorist’ might be another’s ‘freedom fighter’ but what is the reality? You might un-questionally be indefinably satisfied that is one or the other but that doesn’t make your ‘belief’ the one the only reality.

Maybe that is your problem, for you what you believe is true is for you reality and so anyone that doesn’t just accept your reality and has the audacity to ask questions of it must in your mind be wrong.

But why the need, why the want, why the desire? What is the motivation?

Irrational debate. As you say you are going on ‘feeling’ rather than rational thought and you seem to think thinking things through is silly.

LOL – as I am yours. You clearly dislike me asking questions and seem to want to muddy the water, I wonder why.

But how do you know if something is true or not without asking questions?

To which I ask why?

So for you it is guessing? What you think is between the lines is for you the ‘truth’ even if you never ask if what you think is correct is actually right?

 

Who is 'we'? Can you explain why you think it is a 'game,' and why you are treating it as a 'game'? If you are just asking 'why?' for the hell of it, then, indeed, the 'why game' can stretch on for ever.

Can you explain why you love your daughter? I will start another thread and continually ask you: 'But, why?' - see how long it is before you get bored of it.

Ad nausem and treating it as a 'game' is fairly childish, yes.
I guess nobody likes to end a game they find to be fun - which might explain why you continually ask: 'why?'

Who said I wasn't interested in asking questions? I just think I know when to stop, and can see when there is no further answers to the questions. Isn't a 'theory' a 'belief'? I know what I might believe isn't always a reality, but I am satisfied at some point.

I am accepting another persons reality, and accepting that to be true.
It appears it isn't 'audacity,' it is a game, a game you like playing. Why?

In this circumstance: 'just in case'.

Some human behaviour has to rely on a feeling. It is, indeed, irrational.
But you can find an answer that satisfies something you find irrational.

Questions are fine. The same questions are boring.

Well, there's a surprise.

Sometimes, yes.

 

OdonII

Again you seem a lot more interested in just nit-picking than actual debate, why is that?

For fuck sake! LOL - You said ”Does your daughter ever ask you”

So take a guess I mean you are the one that seems to think they can read between the lines so well.

Because it is a fun way to learn (and teach).

OH hell – you said “Does your daughter ever ask you: 'Why, Daddy?,' you answer as best you can”

Denoting there was a subject. Actually the game usually spreads out into other subjects. ‘We’ - me and my daughter - like it.

Because she is a lovely girl.

Now you are beginning to sound like a petulant child having a tantrum because you are not getting your own way.

Oh fuck in hell! You asked me about me and my daughter well me and my daughter play the ‘why game’.
Again you are acting childishly

How do you know? Do you read minds, are you omni-knowledgeable?

I don’t believe I’ve claimed it to be anything more.

But you are satisfied believing in something as truth that you suspect is a lie? If so why?

Without question and even when suspecting it might be untrue?

Again why the childishness? As clearly stated the game is with my daughter.

Yes they fear being attacked so seem to feel they need guns to defend themselves

Questions that go unanswered or are evaded tell you a lot.

So you basically guess and then take the guess are the truth, while suspecting it might not be the truth? Again if so why?

 

I see, fair enough.

Why is she a lovely girl?

Do you see any thread authored by me asking such a question?
Why do you think that is?

I didn't get you were talking about your child because I suspected (reading between the lines) you were treating this as a game, and you were asking questions ad nauseum.

I don't read minds. I'm not omniscient.
You seem satisfied that the answer to: 'Can you explain why you love your daughter?' is: 'Because she is a lovely girl.'
I could be satisfied at that or ask you: 'But, why?' and then ask: 'But, why?'.
I think you have asked: 'But, why?' enough times of certain people to gain an understanding, and not need any further answers.
I have, anyway.
Isn't: 'Because she is a lovely girl' as full an answer as 'just in case'?

It was a question.

Well, nobody is completely honest. Not even me.
I don't believe Siq can get to and have ready his guns in 5 seconds, I'm not even sure he said he could - but if he said he can, then there comes a point where you have to believe that or not believe that.
If it's actually 10 sends not 5 seconds - does it really matter?

So you know this is true? You haven't read between the lines? It isn't a theory or a belief. It is fact?

True. Why ask them again and again then?

Sometimes, yes. Somethings are not worth worrying about.

 

[FONT=&quot]Because she is a lovely girl.[/FONT]
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Odon

[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]You can do your silly why, why, why routine on any political question you wish to choose but I am not doing it with a child. If you were a parent you would know why if you are a parent and think this is funny I’d be rather worried about your children. [/FONT]

 

I'm not a parent, but I am an uncle, and I could not completely tell you why I love my nephew. That being the point. Sometimes there isn't a complete answer to give, and you just have to rely on a couple of words. It is an: 'If you were ____ you would know why'.
You sound a little frustrated with my question(s) - that being the point, too. Get it?

Questions that go unanswered or are evaded tell you a lot.

 

[FONT=&quot]Odon[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]To repeat – I don’t mind you doing this silly why why why thing with any political subject but I’m not doing it with children. I could but am refusing because I am a parent. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I am not frustrated with your question(s) only with you trying to do this with a child. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]If you truly are an uncle I’m worried about you not understanding that. [/FONT]

 

It was just something you hold dear. I wasn't planning on asking you any other questions about your daughter. I should/could have said: 'Why does a father love their child?' Like I said, I could not completely tell you why I love my nephew. That being the point. Sometimes there isn't a complete answer to give, and you just have to rely on a couple of words. It is an: 'If you were ____ you would know why'. I accepted that others are gun owners, and they have those guns for reasons that they probably could never fully explain.

 

[FONT=&quot]Odon

[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]To repeat – I don’t mind you doing this silly game you want to play of why why why with any political subject but I’m not doing it with children. I could but am refusing because I am a parent.
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[FONT=&quot]Please stop trying to make political advantage out of my refusal
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[FONT=&quot]So desist and present the political subject you wish to talk about. [/FONT]

 

I'm not trying to.

[Insert any political subject you wish]
Sometimes there isn't a complete answer to give, and you just have to rely on a couple of words. It is an: 'If you were ____ you would know why'. I accepted that others are gun owners, and they have those guns for reasons that they probably could never fully explain.

Perhaps just pick up on:

So you know this is true? You haven't read between the lines? It isn't a theory or a belief. It is fact?

 

[FONT=&quot]Odon[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Why can they not explain? [/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]It is a theory, can they refute it? [/FONT]

 

Maybe A. Sometimes there isn't a complete answer to give, and you just have to rely on a couple of words. It is an: 'If you were ____ you would know why' or maybe B. Honestly, I don't think they could offer anything more. You will just do exactly what I am accusing you of doing, and you will go round and round and round. I don't know, though. Perhaps we will never know.

I think you should have said: I don't know but, I think, they fear being attacked so seem to feel they need guns to defend themselves

I don't read minds. I'm not omniscient. I don't think we will ever find out. Perhaps they feel they already have.

 

And then some. It isn't as though answers haven't been given. Instead, those answers have been ignored or simply waived off as not being relevant or good enough. Wish we could do that with every answer in life we didn't like.