The 2nd Amendment

So, had the decision gone the other way, you would also say that the decision was based on politics and not the law? I doubt that.

I think the reasoning put forward by the dissenters made no sense and flew in the face of recorded history on the subject. If anyone was playing a political game in all of this it was them. Dogmatic? I am not Republican nor do I share many beliefs with the Republican party. So no, I don't how I am sounding dogmatic.

 

My professor in American Government informed us that we had all been misinformed regarding the second amendment. He even stated that those who were for the right to bear arms would disagree with him and that their disagreements would still not change the fact that he was right. The second amendment, for the longest time, was not construed to mean that citizens had the right to bear arms. It was an amendment solely in place for the military.

 

The grammar is clear if one understands how English behaved in the late 18th century, and if one understands English today.

 

Well, I think calling four members of the Supreme Court idiots is kind of extreme.

 

But the citizens were the military.

 

And your professor was full of shit. Once again, the men who wrote the Amendment were quite clear. Hell, again, it says "the people" . How can "the people" mean an individual right in all but the 2nd? Did the men who wrote it suddenly change the definition as they were writing the 2nd, and then change it again when they went on the write the rest?

 

As is them trying to argue that the 2nd Amendment does not lay out an individual right.

 

You throw that around as though it is a valid argument. It is not.

 

If we want to get technical, every male between the ages of 18 and 45 (I think 45) are part of "the militia". Good thing, though, that that wasn't what the founders meant by "the people".

 

You're right, that is why I am not resting on it.

 

I repeat....I find the sight of a bunch of (supposed) hip people, purportedly interested in individual rights, less government interference and a free life, wanting governments to jackboot doors down and incarcerate some poor schmuck with a hi-cap magazine to be most unedifying.

Gun control is 90% ineffective. After the confiscations of 1996 and 2003 in Australia, we now have more illegal shootings than ever. Usually its crim on crim, but that doesn't stop governments (snake oil salespeople) wringing their hands and saying we need more gun control, more police diverted from proper duties and more random powers of search and seizure.

Alcohol and tobacco kill people too. Are you all in favour of waiting periods for a bottle of Scotch? Or limits on how much alcohol you can possess? How about a requirement to register your tobacco pouch, or a ban on cigars of over 4 inches?

There are far more deaths from booze and smokes than civilian owned firearms. So I expect you "hipsters" to be campaigning against the demon drink and the evil leaf. After all, there's no constitutional protection for them. Should be easy.

After that, you can ban cars. No-one needs a vehicle. Then we can ban take-away food to prevent obesity.

Just imagine the size of the government you can have!! Orwell would be apoplectic.

 

GreenGrass, I consider myself to be a freedom-loving person who is in favor of common-sense gun safety laws. Let me try to respond to your rant.

Your fantasy of the jackboots busting my door down to confiscate my weapon is not what anyone wants. This is just a paranoid delusion by the gun nuts. Gun confiscation has not been proposed by any current politician. No one wants to take your guns away.

I want common-sense measures such as universal background checks and a ban on future sales of assault weapons and high-capacity magazines.

I agree with you that in the short term, laws like this will do very little good. It's too late. 300 million guns have already been sold in America. But these laws in the long term, maybe 30 years out, will start to reduce the number of weapons that insane people can get hold of. And that's a good thing.

Very few things can kill many people quickly and easily. But these things should be restricted.

Your comparison with alcohol and tobacco is way off base. I don't think the government should be able to tell me what I can do with my own body, so I am in favor of legal alcohol and drugs and 24-ounce sodas.

The question is not about outlawing everything that is dangerous. It's about keeping our children and fellow citizens safe from crazy murderers with ridiculously powerful weapons for which there are no legitimate uses.

I feel that many of the gun nuts in America, while they might call themselves patriots, are actually traitors who want to be able fight back against the government. They don't have any sense that the government derives its rights from the consent of the governed. Many of them are violent, dangerous loners who feel powerless without their guns. Maybe I went a little too far with that last comment, but when I hear them rant and rave, that's how I feel about them.

 

The problem with people like Sunfighter is that they accept reality at face value and don't even question the government and its motives, when that government has shown time and time again that it doesn't work for the people's best interests and cannot be trusted. Yet people like Sunfighter want to give the government even more power by allowing them to further take away people's constitutional right to bear arms.

Brainwashed people who believe that standing up against a corrupt and tyrannical government is wrong scare me. They don't realize it isn't about fighting the government, but standing up for their rights so this place doesn't become like Germany in the 1930s. When you allow the government to just take away the rights enshrined in the Constitution, you're allowing the government to basically take over, and that is just what is happening. Some people had better wake up. But then again it's too late anyway. The people of this country capitulated to tyranny and fascism a long time ago.

 

I do not trust the government either, but I do believe that we need stricter gun laws to make it harder for just anyone to get a gun and go on a killing spree. The extremists believe that the government will soon be knocking on their doors, demanding that guns be turned over, but that is just ridiculously paranoid. No one's guns are being taken away.

 

Yes, but the statistics show that gun control doesn't stop gun violence. It doesn't stop criminals from obtaining guns. It makes it easier, in fact. And if a person really wants a gun to commit a crime or kill a bunch of people, they're going to obtain one somehow. All gun control does is make it harder for people to defend themselves.

And as far as the government kicking people's doors down... don't be so sure it isn't coming to that. The government is already flying drones over all our major cities. How can the government be trusted when it has proven to be so corrupt and dangerous, but law-abiding citizens cannot be trusted to own a weapon for self-defense purposes? It makes no sense.

 

Come to Australia. Doors are kicked down every day in every state for this exact reason. Don't give me the "I'm just being reasonable" line: we swallowed that down under and we got heartily reamed by our government. We are still getting reamed by our politicians. I need a special permit to visit another state for a shooting competition, for crying out loud.

THIS IS WHAT WILL HAPPEN IN THE US. Don't delude yourself.

And when you fake hippies get your drugs confiscated because a cop is conducting a lawful random search for guns, don't fucking whine to me.

 

Yes, but you are a well-known paranoid.

 

Rant? Well, that's reasonable....not.

It has happened and is happening in Australia. "Fantasy" is the world in which you live.

Why?? How does having to reload after 10 shots make a gun "safer"?

Ah yes, the "snake oil" alternate defense: give it a little longer and it will cure your illness.

Fire? Poisons? Cars? Planes?

So your hobbies are safe but mine aren't? Chauvinistic much? How dare you arrogate to yourself the right to moral superiority.

And as I've posted a dozen times, the crazies won't obey the laws, so what's the fucking point??

The American patriots were rebels against the Government at one point. And I am neither a nut nor an American. I am simply sick to death of bullshit quasi-intellectual left wing chardonnay sipping idealists telling me what I can and cannot do, while at the same time bleating on about civil rights. It is truly nauseating to see such sycophancy.

 

This proves to me that you are paranoid, too, or else you don't understand much about America. No one is proposing taking guns away from peaceful citizens, which means that there are no illegal searches for guns, which means I don't have to worry about my stash.

 

Ah. So long as your illegality is protected, the rest of us can go to hell? Why should we obey gun laws when you disobey drug laws?