"That's Gay!": Offensive?

Society.

No, because you didn't make it up. You heard it, and you repeated it. You say you don't agree with its meaning, you're not saying it because it expresses what you think. Therefor you're going along with the crowd.

And on no level can parallels be drawn between "gay" and everything negative, unless you think being gay is negative.

Sometimes you really have no idea what the sentiment is, unless you ask them why they use it.

Nobody. Who made you the authority? We're just two people with an opinion. But mine is rational and yours isn't.

Again, it's not merely politically correct. It's politely correct, socially correct, logically correct, and semantically correct.

 

I've known bisexual, gays, and lesbians to use the term.
Of course, it will be offensive to some - it is after all, quite understandable (even if it's not agreeable) why it would be - but I think overall, it's quite socially accepted, and I would not consider it to be offensive by default, as 'faggot' would be.

 

So then you understand that doing this is throwing an insult at someone.

Mad love for Patton Oswalt! When he's saying that, he's saying that Cirque du Soliel is literally gay, as in homosexual. Not gay as in something he doesn't like.

Bush and Cheney are the Dukes of Hazzard.

 

It unfortunately is more widely accepted than not. Which is what makes me upset, and I want to raise awareness that it shouldn't be. Lots of offensive and wrong things were once socially accepted, though they were in fact intrinsically wrong all along. But people came around and would never do them today.

 

Why is it offensive though?
Most of the people that use the term, "that's gay", very much like the gays that I've heard use it, understand it as a huge difference from "gay is bad", they don't even associate the two together - so why should you be bothered?
To many of the people who use it, the 'gay' in "that's gay" is an entirely different word than the 'gay' that means 'homosexual'.

Lots of things are always going to be offensive, because people can be offended by virtually anything. Sometimes being offended is only causing pointless trouble, as I feel it is in this case, since there is no maliciousness behind it.

 

If you want to know why I don't like it, read my posts in the thread. I've already talked about everything you mentioned.

 

Nah, I'm not THAT interested. Just figured since you were responding to me about it, you may want to provide me with the information.
I mean really, I can't see what new you can tell me about what you don't like about it, that isn't already in my post. (i.e. associating the two definitions of gay)

 

The information is there, if you want to see. I've posted replies to the things you said in your post. Maybe you've heard the same thing from someone else, maybe you haven't. It's up to you. Quickly, I said things like people should associate the two definitions because if you don't associate them then the context you're using it in (gay is negative) does not make any sense and you're not expressing yourself clearly.

But do you realize you said "Of course, it will be offensive to some - it is after all, quite understandable (if not agreeable)", and then you said "Why is it offensive?" Which is it? Do you understand ("of course"!), or not?

 

Ah, yes, you are right, I was a bit unclear, I meant why is it offensive to you.
In other words, why choose to associate them.
Which you explain somewhat here:

In analogy: "that's cool" then associates the idea of being cool in temperature as being good, however, some people prefer warmth, so should they instead say "that's warm"?
Words can have different meanings in English. To discriminate is to distinguish between things. But to discriminate is also to show partiality towards that which you distinguish.
Words are symbols, these symbols sometimes hold great meaning as to what they are describing, the first version of discriminate is based on latin's 'seperate', for instance. Other times though, they are just the word that's used. Such as 'cool'. Many other words work for good, many other words can be used for bad. People just use whatever they favor.
I still don't see a reason that they should be associated.

 

I'm impressed. Talking with you is going to be much better than talking to thick-headed misanthropic Gedio.

You make good points about the development of "cool" in language, and about discriminating to show partiality to that which you distinguish. In fact, sometimes people use "hot" the same way. It does say something about them, and I'm insisting that by the same token it also says something about them when they use "gay" to mean something negative. That's my whole point.

And I think they (the two uses of "gay") should be associated, because that's where it comes from. Some people like hotness, some people like coolness. They say one or the other to mean positive things. If they feel positively about gays, they should not use gay to mean something negative, or they are failing at expressing themselves. Why would you desire to fail to express yourself with the words you use? And when that failure bothers, hurts, or offends other people and you understand why, then why do it? Now you're either intentionally being unthinking, or you're intentionally being hurtful.

 

Thank you for the compliments.

I've always wondered where the phrase comes from. I've heard rumors it was started to intentionally make gay seem bad, they never seemed quite right to me, but it's an interesting thought.

I suppose you are right that it makes more sense not to use the phrase than to use it. (And being a conscious person myself, have been trying to aim more towards 'lame' lately, which though could be considered offensive by a small group itself, makes perfect sense =P)
However, I still don't see reason to get offended by the people that do use it; knowing that they are more likely 'unthinking' than intentionally hurtful.

 

Ah so we're flaming now are we?
No offense meant to people who are on fire obviously.
If you're down to name calling then you have surrendered your point.
And, once again I ask why should we care if something is socially acceptable? Society, for the most part is a horrible place.
And for those who say "This isn't about freedom of speech."
Yes, it is. It's baby steps like this that start bigger problems.
You don't like what people are saying? Tough shit, that's part of life, things don't always go your way.
I'd like to point out that in no way do i consider being gay negative (being bisexual and all).

 

doesn't offend me, but i still see it as offensive. a term that means "homosexual" to mean "stupid." negative connotation and all that. personally, the word "gay" annoys me. "lame" is so much cooler.

 

I think if you look back, you'll find you called me a bitch, a fool, and a whining tool a few times before I rose to the bait.

And I think I'll use the facts as my defense on this. You openly say that "people" will never listen when criticized because they are defensive and will never admit they are wrong. By "people" you mean you. Isn't that the definition of "thick-headed"? Isn't saying that kind of thing about people the definition of "misathropic"? But I suppose this whole argument is about you not knowing what the word "gay" means, so...

"Blah blah blah... It's not my fault that I don't listen to what people say because I'm always right and hurt them or fuck them over for the sake of it because that's just how all people are and always will be... What do you mean, misathropy and and a concrete skull is a bad thing? Grr grr grr..."

So you've found that rape being considered wrong has led to all sex being criminalized? Locking up the Manson family for what they did with knives led to surgeons going to jail?

The "slippery slope" is an argument that says that we are unthinking by nature. Again, maybe you are, but don't put that off on to the rest of us. And won't someone think of the children?! :willy_nilly:

Anyway, for chrissakes, freedom of speech is a FUCKING LEGAL ISSUE. No one's proposing taking legal action against "that's gay". Alright? Hello, in there? You listening?

Then why in the world would you think you should use "gay" to mean negative things?! :banghead:

 

But you don't always know which it is unless you ask them. And lots of times I can tell by how they say it that they are gay-baiting. Being unthinking isn't worse than being intentionally rude, but it's still not a good thing. The subject is worth talking about, and friends should be able to have this conversation.

 

I believe they're being unthinking, or conformist, or possibly self-hating. (Take careful note of my use of "or", I don't think all of them are all of these things.) There's no shortage of self-hate among gay people. And you know why? Because people go around saying they're bad outright, or using the word for what they are to mean "something bad".

"Gay" did in fact come from the way that people saw gays as camp; feminine, airy, "light on their feet", "flying", etc. It was always a kind of positive word. And they also saw homosexuals as strange and different, so they called them "queer". Back then, diversity was seen as a bad thing. Now, diversity is much more valued, so gays took the "queer" term back because being different was now seen as a good thing, like being happy and carefree is a good thing. Being lame, stupid, and unliked will always be a bad thing.

Because using gay as something negative is not the same connotation as using it as happy and carefree, it doesn't make sense to use it. Unless you mean it in the homosexual connotation, and then you're saying being gay as in homosexual is a bad thing. If that wasn't understood, the term wouldn't work and be popular. That's very harmful, and if you don't mean it in a threatening way then don't do it. Why would you do it?

Yeah, and "******" is just a word. "Muslims should all die" is just a phrase. The funny thing about words is that they mean something. Language has a tendency to convey information.

 

Right, I was goin to avoid flaming but screw it. No, this argument is about you being so ridiculously "thick-headed" that you can't see between the lines that whilst gay does refer to a homosexual, it also has another use, yes negative but also completely separated from homosexuality. Many words are used have double meanings. No, by people I mean people. Everyone likes to think they're somehow better and they're different (deny it all you want, you'll just prove my point avatar). Newflash, you're not. I never said people won't admit they're wrong, i said they won't like to, and if criticized negatively they WILL defend themselves, human nature.

I'm not hurt by anyone, I don't see the point in being offended by such stupidly and pathetically trivial matters and have no time, patience or respect for anyone who does because honestly, not many people care if you're offended or not. You think I actually give a shit if I offend you? everything you say will offend someone. I never said it's not my fault, if i do something that I (not you or any other pissy fucking uber-liberals) think is wrong I take responsibility for it. If I see no problem with it why would I not defend my corner? I think the problem here is moral absolutism on your part.

Once again your example is inept and irrelevant. The entire problem behind people saying this comes form two reasons:

-their own insecurity about their choice of sexuality (this merely shows their weakness and is of no concern to me)

or

-a liberal attitude of "oooh don't say this, you can't do that, OMG you said eskimo instead of inuit that's RACIST" which I find utterly ridiculous and, as I have said before a cancer on the mind of an individual.

The more common is the second option, and while it might not seem like a sllippery slope to you it IS. What begins as an ideal moves eventually in politics (racism used to be paramount in America in the time of slaves and this moved to politics and eventually to the law). Everything that starts as an ideal eventually turns into state and government issue. This is the problem I have, if PC like this EVER became the law the country would, as I have said, turn into a bastardized Orwellian hell.

Because it has two meanings. I'm not saying homosexuality is negative. I'm saying the object or situation in question is negative. Where I to call someone a bitch would I be calling her a female canine? No, I would be suggesting that she is a very snotty and uptight person with many unwarranted prejudices.


I'm sick of talking to you now as you only anger and aggravate me with your lack of intellect and ability to read between the lines of common speech. You are a tool and I no llonger with to put my time and effort into this discussion as I feel there is no more to say between us, and no point in doing so even if there was as we both have our minds made up about the use of the word. As the poll shows I am not alone in these views (about the use of the word gay, my feelings towards you may only be my own.)

Reply to this post what you want, I won't be reading it.

 

I've explained that every other example given for a word being adopted into slang had some sort of relation to its older use. Why is "gay" the only one that's different? It sprang out of youth, in school, so why in the hell would you believe that it doesn't have any relation to "homosexual"? Because gays are soooo loved in school?

If it were true that every BAD ideal becomes law, we'd already be in an Orwellian hell. Quite the opposite, good ideals become law and there are more and more freedoms all the time. Especially social issues, like this.

For Christ's sake, any woman would be insulted at being called a dog. Would you fucking think? It's an insult to be called a dog, so one takes insult. It's an insult to be called gay in this context, so one takes insult. How do you suppose the first person decided to use "gay" to mean something negative? How do you suppose it was understood and liked, and became popular?

Having never once floated an idea for why "gay" got this use if it had nothing to do with homosexual. Anybody else want to try?

 

Folks this is getting boring. The term Thats so Gay is an intentional negative conotation equating gay people as being undesirable or bad. It's a no-brainer. Some folks don't give a shit, they just use the phrase because its currently in use, others find it to be a slur. Thats life, some care, some don't. Lets just drop it.

 

It's not a big deal. I say it. When others say it I don't get offended. I don't see a reason to overanalyze and politicize the statement.