Thanks for trying to convert me, but take your pamphlets & go home

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by cerridwen, May 18, 2004.

  1. cerridwen

    cerridwen in stitches

    Everyone is free to practice what they want, when they want.

    I have yet to disregard someone's religious or spiritual beliefs, regardless of how much I may disagree with them.

    Since I began practicing wicca, I've had some of my christian friends stop talking to me, I've had the relationship between my very catholic father and I become considerably more awkward, and I've had certain door-to-door religious salesmen freak out and leave (which is rather funny sometimes).

    Now, I can't help believing in what I believe. To each their own, right? So why is it now that my father won't have me over unless we're going to church together? Why is it that he insists on all of a sudden getting all bible-thumpery with me and trying to make me feel guilty? (It's not working by the way, I know he's just being stubborn.)

    I just don't get where all of this is coming from, it's so irritating.
     
  2. Professor Jumbo

    Professor Jumbo Mr. Smarty Pants

    Generally, it seems, people don't like to do that which is hard. Among things that are hard is having to adapt to significant (or seemingly significant) changes in ones social and familial environment. Why this is I don't know I have never had a problem with this adaptation and rather enjoy it, but that is just me I guess. Anyhow it could be the case that your friends and family find it easier and more comfortable to simply ignor you now. Your decision to be Wiccan forces them to rethink their own relgious positions as well, most people are unable or unwilling to do this and so they run away, cowards.

    It is possible also that they believe some or all of the nasty hateful anti-wiccan propagand floating around these days and are acting accordingly. Thinking that you worship the Devil, do blood sacrifices, plot to murder Christians, and a bunch of other worthless nonesense. Of course I don't know whether or not they accuse you of such things, but that is the tone of much anti-Wiccan propaganda and is one possibility.

    A third possibily is that they are concerned for you. If they believe, as many Christians do, that non-Christians go to hell then it is likely that they think that they are acting in your best interests, trying to save your soul and all that jazz. While to non-Christians this may seem a bit silly, to many (not all, so no flaming please) Christians this is the most serious topic possible. If you though, for example, that one of your dearest friends was going to burn in hell for all eternity as a result of erronius religous beliefs wouldn't you try to teach them the error of their ways?
     
  3. Smudge

    Smudge Member

    Prof Jumbo- what a great objective fair post, thanks.

    Cerridwen, as a Christian, I just don't know why your friends have stopped talking to you.

    If I had a friend into Wicca, I wouldn't stop being their friend.

    One of my best friends became a Mormon (until a couple of years ago), and me and her were/are still good friends...

    I don't know...sorry you have had to go through that...just know it's not what Jesus would want.

    I suppose they may not know what to talk to you about...what interests you these days.. (just an afterthought).
     
  4. fitzy21

    fitzy21 Worst RT Mod EVAH!!!!

    i went to a catholic h.s. but i am not christian. i have my own beliefs but not part of a "recognized" religion. i had one teacher, whom i have to say is one of the best teachers i ever had, that said a pray at the beginning of every class. she was a very devoted christian. i had 3 classes with her and i was in her homeroom for 1 year. so in total, i was in her classroom for my h.s. career. my freshman year, some kids didn't understand why i had the beliefs i had and said derogatory comments, but everyone in my graduating class came together and everythign turned out fine and i advanced my beliefs. back to the teacher, ever since my freshman year, she always supported me and never even attempted to try to convert me. she recommended books that she thought would further my beliefs. this all coming from a devote christian. and by sophmore year, i was accepted and they let me believe in what i believed in. we did get to have some fun discussions in religion class tho, ahh memories.
     
  5. know1nozme

    know1nozme High Plains Drifter

    Have you seen the WONDERFUL "tract" titled "The Other People" written by Otter Zell and published by Pathfinder Press? It looks just like the types of religious tracts handed out by door-to-door proselityzing Christians, but tells the story of a pair of Pagans who recieve such a visit. They invite the people in and than explain that none of the stuff these people are preaching applies to them because they aren't decended from Adam and Eve, but rather from the "other people." They haul out the Bible and show that in Genisis 1:27 people are created prior the the creation of the Garden of Eden (and thus prior to Adam and Eve, who are created later, in Genisis 2:7), then later, when Adam and Eve are kicked out to the Garden, there are other people already living in the world (people who never violated any dictate against eating from the Tree of Knowldge and hence without Original Sin).

    It's a great little book, showing how the Old Testament term Elohim is actuall a plural meaning "the Gods" rather than a single God and that Jehova was only one member of a much larger pantheon of deities.

    I think you can still order it in lots of 100.

    Pathfinder Press, P.O. Box 57, Index, WA 98256, telephone (360) 793-1945.

    I think that if you are plagued with such problems, you might find some use in these.
     
  6. gdkumar

    gdkumar Member

    Dear Cerridwen,

    Hand has five fingers, all are unequal, some are even slightly bent and crooked. We do not chop off the ones which are not as good and beautiful as the others.We live peacefully accepting both good and bad.

    Acceptance of both can only give you peace, follow what you think is good for you. We do certain things, even if we do not like, just to make others happy. You can always do certain things to make your father happy, after all he is not asking you to do something loathsome.

    With love.......Kumar.
     
  7. gnrm23

    gnrm23 Senior Member

  8. osiris

    osiris Senior Member

    two words: ideological programming.

    as much as i hate to admit it, though, especially when dealing with family, it is easier to just shrug at their questions and bible-thumpery and say "we'll just have to agree to disagree... now, could you pass the potatoes?"

    so, from bitter experience, i will say, let go of the bitter experience. though, out of curiousity, why do you go to church with your father if you have given up said faith?

    much love :)
     
  9. Smudge

    Smudge Member

    ha! wondered what that was all about- had to look it up..:D



    Mankind= man and woman created at the same time.. I guess they were confused ''traditionalists'' who think God made Adam (man) first, and then Eve (woman) later, and when it says 'them' that made them invent the other story. ;)
    No, man and woman created simultaneously - same time!- that is why the Hebrew word is plural, instead of male singular which confuses some... but I have never heard anyone THAT confused about it before. :D

    that is because the Father, and the expression of Him, the Word, by which He created the Universe, (pre-incarnate Jesus), and the Spirit, are all expressed in that word, 'Elohim'.... NOT many 'gods' sorry.. One God.. 3 different functions/expressions...
     
  10. Mui

    Mui Senior Member

    yes you will have to deal with peoples infinite human hypocricy... it is everlasting, and everyone is a hypocrite... when you find it you might be shocked, but than you realize something about everyone that makes no sense
     
  11. Dolphin~Rider

    Dolphin~Rider Member

    If your father is a truly religious, practicing Catholic he must be afraid for your soul. Put yourself in his place. You have a child that you love more than anything in the world and now you feel that they are in danger. He may also feel that you'll be threatened in society because of your "unusual" religious beliefs-unable to fit in, get a good job, etc., because of people's prejudice. I feel sorry for him. That must be really hard. I'll bet he feels powerless to help you, too. Give him time to see that this is not just a passing fad on your part and is truly your religious conviction. Let him know you love him no matter what. Have you tried to sit down and explain Wicca to him? Maybe he's not ready yet, but at some point maybe you can ease some of his concerns. If he loves you ( I'm sure he does) you'll work it out. Don't be too hard on him. It must be a shock for someone of his generation who was raised in the Church. Poor man thinks his beloved daughter is doomed to the eternal flames of hell.
     
  12. gdkumar

    gdkumar Member

    Dear Dolphin~Rider,

    Thanks for your nice post. Only hope that it helps 'Cerridwen'.
    Our children will understand the parents' pain and reasonable concern only after becoming parents themselves. Now we can only try to make them give a second thought for everything that they do.

    With love........Kumar.
     
  13. HappyHaHaGirl

    HappyHaHaGirl *HipForums Princess*

    I used to work at a diner and there was this guy that came in a lot that would always leave me these religious tracts instead of a tip! What a jerk. This is my career! I can't survive on that nonsense...
     
  14. Samhain

    Samhain Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    i really don't agree with your logic, i don't think its loathsome by any means to go to church, i think its loathsome to try and force ones particular religious views onto another. would you join one of your relatives in a religious service just to please them even if you didn't agree with it. i bet cerridwen's father wouldn't atend a Beltane ritual.
    AND if i'm going to get really political about this (mainly) women have been burnt, drowned and tortured in the name of chritianity for centuries. most of those people weren't witches true, but the people doing where saying we're right and your wrong. we need to stand strong to our beliefs now that its less likly we'll be hurt for them (at least physically) i'd love to live in a world where everyones respectful of each others religious standing, where i could enter a church and proudly wear a penticle (one of the signs of the wiccan faith) and know that no one thinks i'll go to hell but we're not there yet.
    when we are, when everyone is open minded and witches and pgans don't have to protect their views, then maybe Cerridwen could go to church with her father, up until then they may have to agree to differ

    s
     
  15. Peace

    Peace In complete harmony.

    Tell him you're gay. I don't know why you would do this, but it could be funny. Maybe he has a gay friend? Perhaps not. Or you could just sit down and talk to him. Explain your beliefs then smoke a bowl. :)

    .Or not..
     
  16. cerridwen

    cerridwen in stitches


    Trust me, for the longest time I've put myself in his shoes. And Samhain, you're right, despite the fact that my husband and I celebrate Easter and Christmas (w/o the church part) with our families, our families have yet to celebrate anything pagan with us, despite the invitation to do so on a number of occasions.

    I've sat down with my family - individually and as a group - on a number of occasions explaining to them about wicca, why I practice, etc... but despite the fact that I've been practicing it for about 8 years doesn't really mattter, it's llike it's a loosing battle, a constant struggle to come to some kind of comprimise.

    The truth is, ignorance is truly bliss in my family..... and the fact that I'm going to hell really hasn't come up, although his concern of my embarassing him infront of his friends has come up a number of times because of it.... so frustrating.
     
  17. Samhain

    Samhain Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    i am very lucky my family accept my religious beliefs even if they do not always understand them. infact my dad would like to go to stone henge with me at some point.
    if they didn't accept them i also have a wider family and that is all my close friends that don't have a problem and help me to embrace my spirituality .
    Cerridwen you may have to accept that there are some things your family may never accept but hopefully you have a wider 'family' that you can really be yourself in, embrace that and times with your blood family may not seem so hard.

    blessings

    s
     
  18. Dolphin~Rider

    Dolphin~Rider Member

    I'm so sorry to hear that Cerridwen. Sometimes you do everything right and it still doesn't help. At least you've tried. The rest is up to your dad I guess. Parents can be bigots, unfortunately. Peace and love to you.
     

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