Terrorists kill "innocent people?"

what are your sources? i've found several that have gore over 50 million alone....

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/U.S.-presidential-election,-2000-(detail)

there is another one

yet another

http://www.gwu.edu/~action/resultsgfin.htm

and yet another..

http://www.electionreform.org/ERMain/priorities/ec/data/2000PopECvote.htm

 

I don't cheer the slaughter of women and childeren, or praise the torture of thousands fo people. You keep saying that, keep letting everyone know what you fabricate in your mind about people who disagree with you. I support the war? Is that it? Huh? You think I liked hearing about the prison abuse? No. I think it's horrible. I think they didn't do enough to the dumb soldiers who did it.
And the slaughter of women and childeren? God forbid you actually take into account the lives of three thousand American lives that were lost in an unprovoked attack by Islamic extremeists whom are fighting a Jihad. The military doesn't puposely target villiages. We're there to stop terrorists, and that's what we're doing. You listen to anything that shows America in bad light, and block out anything else for the sake of being one sided. We're a lot better than the enemy, we can never do enough to stoop to their level.

 

Well you have your source that tells you 11 million voted. And i was speaking to Maverick, he is the one who was using a false statement to argue Willow.

 

yech Maverick...even though I dont agree with half of what you say...

Willow is the queen of blanket statements and generalizations.all you can do is correct her and move on.

If she doesnt like you...you could say..."The sky is blue" and she'd reply with a "that blue sky is just white Amerikkka's conspiracy to kill women and children."


Genocide is ok as long as it's americans on american soil.especially if those americans are white.

she's speaks alot of hate towards the white folks....i guess she forgot that alot of non-whites and non-americans died on 9-11 as well.


that illegal immigrant from Mexico working as a floor janitor in the WTC is just another guilty-deserving-of-death american to her.


there's no hope!! just kiss her goodbye..she says she leaving the ole US of A.

 

ok..well you didnt specify and it was following my post. LOL.

 

We DON'T have control over the ruling Elite. Every American citizen in America could vote and it still wouldn't make a difference, because we'd still only have a choice between two candidates from two parties whose beliefs really do not differ that much, and are both controlled by corporations. We could vote third party, but what's the point? Third parties don't reflect the interest of the majority, and even if they were voted into office, which is not likely, would not serve the interest of a majority. I believe in the importance of voting just as much as the next guy, but in every single election that has happened in my lifetime, and before, I see little difference in the candidates. One may look better on paper, but chances are he's not going to be a pure hearted politician wanting to change america, but instead the same power driven, wealthy, corrupted politician americans are used to. I don't know about the rest of you, but I feel pretty powerless against my government. But what can we do, in all honesty? I've come to the conclusion that protests don't solve anything. The government just ignores them, and the media gives them maybe, if everyone is lucky, five minutes in the spotlight. Writing letters to politicians? they'd just ignore them. There are many things we could do to take part in our government, but the truth is the government is not owned by the people, and has not been for a long time.

 

As ive suggested elsewhere, no change can come from focussing at the top offices in the land until sufficient grassroots mobilisation has occurred to begin the change with our local and state governance.

Move from there to the Congressional level with mandates only for those prepared to dismantle and forever henceforth outlaw all corporate infrastructure for the control of the political system (an end to career politics, an end to the privilege of legislators to vote their own pay increases, an end to any corporate money into the system apart from the proper and legitimate level of taxation according to earnings, the institution of full and unavoidable transparency in policy making, a Constitutional amendment replacing US Supreme Court appointments with a fully accountable elected judiciary with no further lifetime mandates, the revocation of all corporate held media and press licenses and the establishment of open public media and press, and the obligation for all national press and media to provide a fixed amount of prime time airtime and front page press space for all candidates for national office (as is the case in many industrialised countries apart from the US) and we might restore much of our system to the liberal ideals enshrined in our Constitution.

Of course, the eventual dismantling of other anti-democratic institutions (long a part of the duplicitous status quo) such as the CIA would be desirable but not feasible until much of the above came to pass.

Sadly, American citizens per capita demonstrate very little interest in committing the time and energy demanded of a populace in order to keep their leaders accountable, so I don't hold out much hope for any such progressive achievements to come about in my lifetime.

 

What exactly does that mean?

 

That means reversing free handed FCC procedures and divesting corporations such as Murdoch's News Corp of their monstrous control of hundreds of news papers and tv media agencies.

Corporations controlling all or even most sources of mainstream information runs counter to the prerogatives of a free and open democratic nation (yes even a republic).

 

I was actually going to say I completely agreed with otter after she admitted that we do NOT have control over the ruling elite in this country, and that our "right" to "vote" is really bunk.

Then I get to another of her ridiculous claims - this time it's that I "hate" "white people." Lol. Except my mother is "white," my husband is "white," my daughter is 3/4 "white." Half my family is "white."

Then we hear all about how I think "genocide" is ok so long as it is happening to Americans. *sigh* The last genocide that happened to Americans happened to the NATIVES, first of all. 3,000 people getting killed in a bombing that *MIGHT* have been carried out by Muslim extremists or *MIGHT* have been carried out by the United States government or *MIGHT* have been carried out by some crazy supporters of Tim McVeigh or *MIGHT* have been carried out by DONALD DUCK, for all the honesty we get from the ruling elite in this country - is NOT genocide. It's not even ATTEMPTED genocide.

I don't think bombing *anyone* is ok. But behaving as if the 9/11 attack was just some "unprovoked" act on the part of "people who hate freedom" is idiotic. Especially since these terrorist organizations have STATED why they want to blow us up, and it ain't cause they "hate freedom." It's because we're supporting Israel's human rights violations, because we are funding oppressive regimes like Saudi Arabia, because we bomb pharmaceutical factories in Sudan, because we have murdered millions of human beings in Iraq with our bombings and sanctions, because we call the Muslims "uncivilized," because we believe our "way of life" should be forced on people all over the planet (including our pornography and our violence and our alcoholism and drug addiction), because we won't follow international laws but believe THEY should, etc etc etc. But when people tell you why they want to kill you, all you hear is "They hate freedom!" or "Their God tells them to kill!" or something else that doesn't make a lot of sense.

Sure, some terrorists are Muslim. Religion is always a great anchor for people in armed conflict. But you could erase Islam from the face of the earth right now, and these people would be trying to kill you in the name of SOMETHING ELSE. Because religion only gives them something to organize themselves under - it could just as easily be a flag or an ethnicity or whatever.

*sigh* Why am I bothering?

 

You have a valid point, but don't forget that the Iraqi People, and Chinese people, etc. are so controlled by their government that they can't even stage an armed revolution because of their lack of weapons. Iraq TRIED to overthrow Saddam when the US supplied them with arms, and once Bush Sr. was done with what HE wanted to do, he left them in the desert to die. The US, Britain, France, etc. are some of the only countries who have the power to stage an armed revolt against their government. I want to also make clear that i do not advocate armed revolutions against oppression, i agree with the ghandi, martin luther king, jesus, etc. type style. This is the BEST way of changing things, because although it takes MUCH longer, the government can't use anything against you, they can't make people afraid of you because you are a non-violent protestor.

Peace and love,
Dan

 

You're right, they're just jealous.

Go there and see how civilized it is. Then come back and share.

Wow, you just chucked the whole thing about them being on a "Jihad" right out the window. You know they are on one, right?

 

Because you are exactly right.

 

No, you just seem to have a bias against America for some reason. Whether you intend to or not, your posts send out the message that America is wrong no matter what. And do you honestly beleive that the U.S. government is behind the 9/11 attacks? If so, I pity your ignorance. Isn't it enough for you that a known enemy of the U.S. takes full responsibility for the bombings? Or are you willing to sacrifice your own credibility for the chance to attack the U.S. government? Nobody said that anyone committed genocide against the Americans (although given the chance, the Islamic extremists would shit themselves for the opportunity), but 3,000 people dead because of terrorists isn't something you just forget about and move on with your life.

How would you have liked to be trapped on the 75th floor staring out of the window of a building that is collapsing? Surely there were people far more liberal than yourself in those buildings when they were hit, and they died right next the evil conservatives. But they had it coming right? Allowing a person such as Bush to be elected into power is more than enough of a crime to warrant death as retribution.

And we don't need to enfore our violence or our drugs on the Middle East. By the Koran, it is a perfectly acceptable form of punishment for shoplifters to have their hands cut off (a friend of mine was stationed in Kuwait and saw this on numerous occasions) so they can't do it again, and you say we're pushing our violence onto them? And it's funny how over half of the world's heroin comes right from the Middle East isn't it? And how Al Qaida maked a good deal of their money growing poppy which will eventually be injected into the veins of American drug addicts. They don't need any help getting drugs, trust me.

Religion is the ONLY reason these people hate us. Our support of their hated enemies (the Jews) and our liberal, free-thinking way of life that goes against everything that their religion stands for are the only reason the WTC was attacked, and the only reason that the Islamic extremists (not all Muslims hate Americans, the ones that crash planes into buildings are a very small minority) hate America.

 

In Maverick's world, only 18 million people voted.

 

Maverick is just talking exactely what the U.S government wants him to say. Okay the September attacks were a disaster, but they were not un-provoked. The U.S has probably the worst international relations in the world, other countries seem to want to cooperate with other countries to make the "WORLD" a better place not just America. Just becasue you claim America is the freeiest country in the World and you are therefore right doesn't make it so. 3,000 people may seem a lot but it is absolutely nothing compared to much bigger world problems that can be delt with such as AIDS and hunger, yet you spend million are protecting yourself. The worst of all that GWB believes the best way to prevent attack is by building a bigger wall around America and attacking others who don't believe in your way of life,, instead of finding out why people hate you, which is way obvious if I am to be honest.

 

Guess again. You think Al Queda wants to bring democracy to Saudi Arabia? These are the people that brought you the Taliban, and wanted Taliban style regimes across the whole middle east.

We were the largest provider or humanitarian aid to Afghanistan prior to 9/11, while Al Queda was busy acting as mercenaries for the Taliban. Who was the oppressor?

This phenomenon is called 'projection'. You hate the US and assume that deep down anyone else who hates the US must have a rational, legitimate reason for doing so. Lenin referred to deluded communist sympathisers in the west as "useful idiots", and unless someone can think of a better term I think it is equally applicable for those who look into the eyes of Al Queda terrorists and try to rationalise away their actions.

 

Saudi Arabia are being protected by the U.S. because it is the larfest provider to you of (guess what ) yes thats right OIL!! I am to believe that 16 of the 19 hijackers on the planes were from Saudi Arabia but no its all some old man in a cave fault. You couldn't jepodise your oil supply so you pick on country which don't provide things to you ONLY.

 

And you are talking the exact way the Green Party wants you to....and don't answere with, "No I have a free mind and I think for myself!"--becasue guess what, so does Maverick, his free thinking is just different than yours....that is if you have free thinking, which you probably do, but I don't know you so....

 

What is a free mind? If you ask this to many experts, nobody has a free mind because everythink can influence and affect you, and it's when you let governments, media etc to influence you that you can have beliefs that you may no are wrong, just becasue your government tells you too.