Terrorism Is Alien to Islam

Ali:
Please explain the terms 'SAWS' and 'RA'. Are these abbreviations, and if so, with what meaning. Also, does 'Ali' have a literal meaning, such as 'high' or 'revered'?

Also, suppose I were talking to a Shi'a. What sorts of criticism of Sunnis would he come up with?

These points are relevant because Europeans and Americans are getting involved (through the stupidity of their leaders) in Iraqi affairs, including a Sunni/Shi'a armed conflict.

 

Ok, SAWS means salah Allahu alayhee wa salam which means peace and blessings be upon him. This is only used for the Prophet.


RA means rabi Allahu anhu, which means may God be pleased with them.

About Ali your right about the meaning. It means high.

A shia would criticize many aspects of sunnis. For one, they say that sunnis hate the family of the Prophet SAWS. They believe that after the Prophet SAWS died, only 4 or 5 out of his thousands of companions remained muslim after his SAWS death. They claim that we went back to idol worship after his SAWS death (funny huh?). Shias also have a habit of calling any sunni who does not agree with thier bida'h (innovation) "WAHHABI". I'm sure you have heard of this term before. Here is a funny story about that.

So when I first moved to the city I am in now, I went to a very large traditional looking mosque outside the city. It is HUGE. When I get there I find that the only traditional thing there is the Architecture. Women (uncovered) and men pretty much prayed right next to each other and when the friday sermon was over the first people out started smoking cigerettes and a woman flirted with me right in front of her father. Anyway, one friday (and my last) I went and the Imam (preacher) said that shias are our brothers, they are welcome here, yadda yadda yadda. So then later that year I go to a barber who I find out is shia. I don't tell him that I'm insha Allah going to be going to Saudi Arabia to study Islam on purpose so I can see what he says about sunnis. It turns out the shias in my area had a funeral and the big traditional looking mosque helped out but they were against some of the things the shias did and called it bida'h. THE SHIA THEN TOLD ME THAT THAT MOSQUE IS A WAHHABI MOSQUE! Of course they just use this to bash any sunni they want.

----------Also, something I left out about shias. They have this concept of Taqqiya (lying) and they believe that it is ok to lie about your religion and I know one of the Ayatullahs wrote a book and said that "taqiyya is 9/10ths of the religion and a religion without taqiyya is like a head without a body."

Because of this taqiyya, it is often very hard to talk to a shia, so the best way to find out what they believe is by asking them what books they read and who their shaykhs are.

Also I wanted to say that there are many different groups of shia, some closer to Islam and some outside its bounds (people who say Ali is the embodiment of Allah or that the angel who gave Muhammad SAWS the Qu'ran screwed up and he was suppost to give it to Ali) So Maybe I will make another thread about that. But the Shias I am talking about in this thread are the twelvers and they are the majority sect.

 

Ali:
It sounds like your people have a lot of issues, similar to the Christian Protestant versus Catholic issues. These resulted in mostly European wars which lasted for centuries.

If I am correct, Shia and Sunni groupings in Iraq and elsewhere are reflected in Arab tribal groups which have a geographic character -- more Shias in southern Iraq and so forth. Are there differences in spoken Arabic dialect, in dress, or in personal names which immediately identify whether a person is Shia, Sunni, Jew, Christian or whatever? (I am talking about native Iraqis here, not foreigners.)

 

Ya, lots of issues.

The shias in southern Iraq are there because that is where it started. Basra and Kufa were pretty much the start of Shi'ism outside of a political movement (when they started changing the religion). Southern Iraq has alot of shrines too. I don't think there is a difference in arab dialect between sunni and shia, but there definately is from region to region in the middle east (People from the Gulf speak differently from those in Syria, Eygpt speaks different etc)

Some distinctly sunni names are Umar, Abu Bakr, Khalid, Uthman, Muawiya, and the list goes on. Remember, the Shias think most of the companions of the Prophet SAWS left the religion after his SAWS death. So any name of those companions who they say left is typically a sunni name.

Shia names are things like Abdul Mahdi (Abdul means "slave of" And sunnis think it is only ok to Hav an attribute of Allah following Abdul. Example Abdullah slave of Allah or Abdul Haqq Slave of the truth. Mahdi is like the mesiah, not an attribute of Allah.) and the names of members of the Prophets family (however sunnis do this too so it would be good to find out what region the person is from before you make a guess.)

Also, there is a way to tell sunnis and shias apart from looking at them. Shias might have a big scar across the top of thier head from Ashura.


Red Ghutras (head scarfs) usually means sunni.


Shia Imams (leaders) wear turbans like this.



Not to be confused with this.
(taliban)

 

Thanks, Ali.

The turbans looked pretty much the same to me.

Westerners are widely perceived by Orientals (Japanese, Chinese) as being vulgar and lacking social graces. What are the common salutations (face to face, or written) expected by Arabs? This would be in the way of salutations between adult males who do not know one another and are of equal status. By 'common' I mean that the salutation, such as "Hi" or "Nice to see you" is normal and won't cause me to be laughed at by the Arab listener. There might be a different salutation to be used when starting a conversation with a person of higher status.
I believe "Salaam" means "Peace", for example, and is a form meaning "Hello".

Japanese might expect "O Hio" (good morning) or "Konichi Wa" (good afternoon).

One more thing: The Burkha is the complete covering from head to foot of the female body, as I understand it. Let me get this straight: For an Arab woman to reveal her face in public is like a Western woman revealing (in Western society) her breasts and the rest of her body from the waist up. So that when a Western woman goes to an Arab country and walks about with her face uncovered, it would be as though she were walking around topless in a Western country. Do I have that right?

 

And can a jewish or christian man marry a muslim woman without converting to islam, like the way a muslim man can marry a christian or jewish woman without having to convert to these religions!!!

 

Well, a very high proportion of islamic terrorists and fundamentalists are indeed in jail, in comparison to other religions, in many countries.

 

Dirty Dog-

Are you a soldier? If you want to learn arabic, take a course at your university or your local mosque. Mant mosques have arabic programs. There are 2 types of arabic. The original arabic (correct arabic) Is called fusha (FOOS HA). However, all the arabic countries have their own dialect. My teacher is Lebanese and the guys who tutor me are Saudi, so I'm not really familiar with Iraqi slang besides the word "shlomak" which basically means whats up. I see films of Americans all the time in Iraq saying "Salam Aliekum" to the Iraqis. As a muslim I would kind of be offended by a christian telling me Salam Aliekum. A fusha hello is "Marhaba".

Also I don't know where you get your Islamic information, but what you said about women walking around without covering their face is the same as a woman here walking around without a shirt is just silly. In Eygpt, North Africa, Syria, Jordan, Palestine, Somalia, and Lebanon, most women just wear the hijab (just the head scarf) and not the Burkha (the term burka is not used alot so instead of saying burkha im going to say Niqab). I know in Saudi all the women were the Niqab but I'm pretty sure thats the law. I'm not sure about the rest of the Gulf states. I think in Kuwait they wear the hijab, but then again, I'm not compeletly sure. I have seen tapes of hijabis (someone who wears the hijab) In Iraq too, so its pretty much based on how religious the woman is.

Niranjan-

No, a non muslim cannot marry a muslim woman. He would raise the children up as non muslim or try and take the muslima (female muslim) out of Islam.

"Well, a very high proportion of islamic terrorists and fundamentalists are indeed in jail, in comparison to other religions, in many countries."

dude, come on. Where did you get this? Where is your proof for a "very high proportion of muslim terrorists are indeed in jail"? In proportion to what?Besides, they are not in jail because they are muslim, they are in jail because they are criminals. So really what you want to compare is the amount of muslims in jail compared to the number of non muslims. And when you do that you really should not include those who have become muslim since they have been incarcerated.

If I wanted to, I could look at mexico, a country that is 97% roman catholic and say "They have more roman catholics in jail in proportion to the united states, therefor Mexico has more Catholic extremists.". But we both know thinking like this is thinking without logic.

Basically, I don't think you have much of a point.

 

So a muslim man can marry a christian or a jewish woman, but a christian or a jewish man cannot marry a muslim woman. Where is the justice in this !!!

From numerous newspapers and websites as well.

Yup, doing criminal activites in the name of islam.

And I am talking also about countries where there are muslim minorities along with other minorities.

For example in the U.K. , the hindu, buddhist and sikh minorities in the U.K. were found to be well-educated, rich and having very low criminal statistics.

On the other hand, the muslim community was found to be not that good in education, were poor, and had higher criminal statistics.

I believe I do.

 

"So a muslim man can marry a christian or a jewish woman, but a christian or a jewish man cannot marry a muslim woman. Where is the justice in this !!!"

Its our religion, why does it have to conform to your idea of justice? I know our women are the best women who walk the earth, but I'm sure you can find a nice christian or jewish woman who will marry you.

"On the other hand, the muslim community was found to be not that good in education, were poor, and had higher criminal statistics. "

Most people who are poor and un educated commit crimes regardless of religion. It sounds like the U.K. should do a better job of finding jobs and educating muslims if they want to stop extremism.

What I'm getting from your argument is that there are more criminals who kill for Islam then those people from other religions killing for thier religion. I suppose to some degree your right, but its not like that is sanctioned by the religion.

 

Assalamu aleikom.
That's ridiculous! He is not right at all.
In what way can anyone possibly be justified in blaming street crime on religion!
If you're saying that more Muslims commit murder than others, I think you ought to take a good long moment to think about how ridiculous that is, and then look at the facts. Honestly...

 

Well, there is a universal standard of justice, which is not based on religion.

Best in which way. I know many muslim women who are not chaste, so please don't try to convince me otherwise.

Well, the hindu, sikh and buddhist too were impoverished in the beginning but they became successful through their work ethics, creativity and education.

So you cannot complain about the U.K . not helping these guys. According to the statistics I read, these guys are more interested in religion than anything else.

That is a lame excuse.

 

I can't believe you're actually saying this.
How can you look at people forced into such a horrible situation by society, and actually blame them for not being wealthy and powerful enough to help themselves? That's like going to a hospital and blaming a person for having a terminal illness. If you're trying to hold water in this argument, you're doing terribly so far.

 

The universal standard of justice is the Qu'ran. all other forms of "justice" are for lack of a better term wack.


Besides, I don't really see how not letting someone marry your daughter is "unjust". Maybe if you forced your daughter to marry a guy against her will thats unjust. But its not unjust to select based on religion.

He is right in the fact that there are Islamic terrorists in jail. But, there are also many more innocent muslims in jail who have not been charged and who are not given the right to a lawyer. Where is your justice now?

You may know plenty who arn't chaste, but there are PLEEEEEEEEENTY more who are, who keep thier eyes reserved for thier husbands, who listen to him, who are great mothers, who are EXTREEEMEEEEELY pretty and they could have anything the wanted if they acted like a hoochie. But no, alhamduilah they were blessed with Islam.

 

Niranjan are you a hindu? LOL you want to talk to me about justice?
I got 2 words for you. CASTE SYSTEM.

 

And what horrible situation. The hindus, buddhists and sikhs too faced all horrible situations and racism in Britain, but they still went to make a success of their lives, while the muslims are still more interested in their religion to the exclusion of anything else, and still keep on complaining, while their asian counterparts, the hindus, buddhists and sikhs are even outgunning the whites in education and affluence.

 

Yeah sure, the bahais, the buddhists, the zoroastrians, the hindus, the sikhs, the assyrians, the jains in Asia are very well aware of Islamic 'justice.'

And why can't your own daughter make her choice . It is her who has to live with her husband for the rest of her life, not you.

I am talking about the many islamic terrorists in many countries who are in jail , not about the innocent muslims who are in jail. And I don't know if they don't have a right to a lawyer. Many islamic terrorists themselves have lawyers pleading for their cause.

Same as in every nation and religion.

 

The caste system is banned in India due to the efforts of hindu reformers like Gandhi and Vivekananda and others.

Anyone practicing caste discrimination are arrested and prosecuted and many idiots have been made an example of.

The caste system is not sanctioned in the vedas, and as a result,the popular arya samaj, which is based on the vedas, prohibits the caste system,and hence as a result ,inter-caste marriages are rampant in India now and growing exponentially.

 

Dude thats bullcrap I just saw an article on al jazeera on how many "untouchables" have been converting to buddhism to get out of the caste system. Its suppost to be the biggest mass conversion ever. Anyway, see what I just did there? How I used facts and articles? Why don't you do the same.

Its not a matter of letting her marry whoever she wants I'm sure most muslim women want to marry muslim men. She should be able to marry whatever muslim she wants.

Are you indian?

 

Can you hear yourself talking?