The tiniest piece of the Host can be placed on her tongue and allowed to melt away, not being done. What about Last Rites? Why is Micheal denying her her religious rights?
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43427 Nurse's testimony http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0503/18/lkl.01.html Larry King Live where Micheal admits he didn't know what Terri wanted http://codeblueblog.blogs.com/codeblueblog/2005/03/csi_medblogs_do_1.html Are you up for listening to another professional opinion?? http://treyjackson.typepad.com/junction/2005/03/carla_sauer_i_w.html Nurse Iyer's testimony on video
Forcing any living thing to die by not allowing water is wrong. Plain and simple. You would euthenize a pet. Why would allow a human to go thru this? Blood on their hands: the lawyers, judge Greer, Micheal Schavio. Their souls wont ascend will they? The death culture is well entrenced and I fully beleive this case with all the media hype is a test just to see what americans will allow. Sad sad day for america. This case is only the beginning - whatch it esculate. First the disabled who can't speak for themselves... this will start ballooning all over the country. Then it will be CP folks, ALS, autism, .... who knows how this will blow. But it certainly is NOT a good indication. Such a compassionate bunch of people. Allowing someone or anything to die in such a way. Shame on you.
ooh, luvndrumn, just downloaded that report. I'll definitely be getting to that later. Thanks for posting it.
I am just going to say this. I don't know if any of you have been up against this very issue. Have any one you lived through something like this. Have any of you been up close and personal and had to make a life and death disscision with your loved one. Have you walked the walk or are you just bitching about what you know nothing about. It's easy for you to sit there on your asses and say what's right or wrong and how this or that should be handled. There in the comfort of your own easy chairs, on your pompas asses. OH YEAH, You got me going now. I WALKED IT. Not once but THREE times. I'm shaking, crying and screaming right NOW. It's a discission between family and GOD. It's no one elses business. Have you ever watched you child die. Have you ever been there watching waiting for a brain wave of hope. A fucking miracial to happen and your child stand the fuck up and smile at you. Have you ever looked into empty eyes praying for a spark of reconisation. Has your child ever looked up at you and said, mama don't let me die, and they die leaving you with that to carry the rest of your lfe. Have you stood there and watched them unplug your mama. Have you stood and watched them tell your son in law that, no there are no brain waves and it would be best to pull the plug. Have you watched you beautiful child become a vegetable. I don't think anyone should judge something unless they have first tasted it. Otherwise it has no ground in which to stand. Just all hear say. Just all uneducated opinions. All a bunch of BS. I din't go asks my neighbor if, my loved one should be unpluged How would they know, they only knew what I told them.. Walk it or sit down and shut up. Your mindless bs touches home base to some of us here. And it's not a pleasent journey. You want to push a button, well these type buttons could be dagerous grounds to tred upon. Did you ever stop to think that real people experience these things and you lightly decuss the where's and whys. Your walking where angels fear to tread. Forgive the out brust. this hurts. To close to home and heart. I had to say it.
I agree. This is no one's business except the family and doctor's (and judges since the parent's can't seem to let their daughter go - which is understandable). Terri and her family aren't the first to go through this, and they wont be the last. If there is a big media and political circus every time a situation like this in the US occured, we would be hearing about hundreds, maybe thousands of cases all the time. I think that our politicians and media should be ashamed of their behavior in this case, it is appaling. Plastering her in her hospital bed all over the TV. I would NEVER want that to happen to me if I were sick and dying... Bottom line is this is not a decision to be made by you and me, or even by politicians. It is a familial decision, more specifically in Terri's case, her spouses decision, since the spouse is a person's closest kin. Just because her husband isn't making the decision YOU would make does not make it the wrong decision. There is no wrong or right decisions in these cases, just hard decisions.
I agree that this should not have been brought up to Congress. But, while being a "family decision" this family could not come to a consensus. That is the reason it was brought to court in the first place. I don't like the policitizing of this issue, or using this womyn as a pawn or the Left or the Right. This is not a Democrat or Republican issue. It is one of suffering and loss, and no political party has the market on that. Luvndrumm, your vehemence is too extreme for me to respond to you. Your PDF file didn't load, and I really don't care. I know this womyn is being abused, anyone allowed to die of THIRST is being abused. WHY you have such a NEED to see this womyn die in a horrible, long, suffering manner is above my understanding. You admit you know NOTHING of the Catholic faith. I do. I am also a Health Care Professional, so I know what is involved in a feeding tube. If she wanted it (and she was a strong Catholic, an other reason why cremating her would be AGAINST her religious beleifs, but that is what her "husband" wants, to cover up what, I wonder?) the Host could certainly be soaked in water, and simply placed IN the Ensure she was being fed. Or simply in water. At this point I doubt she has enough saliva to dissolve the Host on her own, but a small piece could still be placed in her mouth, OR in her G Tube. Denying this poor womyn Last Rights is beyond cruel. She will be dead in a very short time, luvndrumm. Hope it makes you happy that a person died such a horrible death, that you were in favor of. Okay?
maggie sugar, My vehemence, as you put it (and mis-label it), is an attempt to get people to read what I thought was a very informative, un-biased document that addressed may of the issues of this case that have so many of us stirred up. I have tried to bring information that I believe is not slanted, not agenda-laden. Instead of reading the document, some people have continued holding on to the same slanted, agenda-laden articles as before. It is obvious to me, patently so, that a number of people here just want to believe what they believe. So be it.
Now wait one fucking minute!!! You find ANYTHING I have written here that supports that bald-faced lie!!! I think it is a tragedy that this befall anyone, much less a young woman starting her life journey with her partner. I think it is also tragic that she die in this manner. I would prefer, as I have stated elsewhere, that our "enlightened" society provide for her the same respite as is afforded animals - euthanisia. And before any "free thinkers" jump to the conclusion that that means I want her dead, let me say this. It is obvious to me that she won't get any better (although I will still pray for a miracle); it is obvious to me that death by dehydration is not a pleasant way to die; therefore if she isn't going to get better, why not euthanize her to limit her suffering. Maggie sugar, I've read some of the things you have written and I know you believe strongly and are a powerful advocate for the things you believe in. And that's a good thing. But sometimes you have snakes in your head!
Crap Crap Crap. When Terri has gone, and they media shut up, will you still be bitching, or will you FORGET all about Terri and the manmade nightmare her family is in. Ohh you may have a fleating memory now and again, but it will fade. Her family and the choices that are made, it is they that will carry it always, their lessons. This he did she said and all that is beyond Terri, and aint this about her and her diginty. Not what so n so feels about it. Good God is there nothing sacred even your own death has to e plastered all over america and people, Strangers making judgements on it. Do you think this is what TERRI wants. Do you think she wants her body kept alive, when she herself has gone to a better place, and now to bring her bone scan up on the internet and speculate on what was this and what was that when you have no knowldge of what you speak first hand. If Terri has no brain waves she feels no pain, she feels nothing in her body. If her brain canot recive eletrical impulse then it does not register as anything, You can have involentary movement as muscles atrophy and nerves disapates and bones degenerates. If the docs can't make her well and live her life and knows she's living it, then let the poor woman die in Peace. She's been trapped here 15 yrs. Let nature take it's course. If she can't survive without life support then it just may be GODs will. Keeping her like a show peice for the lookie loos to gawk at is sinful. It's a circus sideshow, it's horrible. Ask your self if you'd want to exsist in that manner. If she knows, dont you think she would want to just get the hell out of this world. There is a time for letting go. Why prolong the agony. Is all this for Terri or some ego ridden BS. I sure wouldn't want my bodily functions discuessed and investagated by the media and strangers that never knew me and will forget me when it's all said and done. I know personally that these discissions are not made lightly. It's not likely that you find anything harder to do in 10 life times. You can only follow your heart and pray for the best in any case. Let Terri pass with some dignity. She doesn't want this BS about her when this is a time for peace. She's going HOME.
My only agenda is not wanting someone to die a horrible death due to thirst. I don't know, neither do you, and neither does her mercenary husband. Terri certainly DOES have brain waves, she is NOT brain dead, but somewhere between a light vegetative state and minimally conscious, she CAN feel, and does respond to pain. I work in health care, I know what constitutes pain, and from the reports and the videos, this womyn FEELS PAIN. As well as thirst and hunger. HOW could you know this? There is NOTHING peaceful about dying of thirst and hunger. Read the description of what happens to a person who dies like this. Yes, I have, My FIL is on a feeding tube at this very minute. (and at the moment, he lives in Florida.) I would no more deny this man fluid than I would myself or one of my own children. I also have had MANY patients, premature and sick babies on feeding tubes. Most of them got better. I would never have counseled any of their parents to let their babies die of thirst, but luckily, none of their parents EVER even brought the subject up. Ask a question like that, and chances are you MAY be dealing with someone who DOES know what they are talking about, and has gone through it.
I have been through similar. My grandmother was on a feeding tube, and her body was literally giving up on her, though luckily only for a few months. But in those few months she got so bad that as a family, as a whole family, we all made the decision, a decision that no one really talked about but could see in each other's eyes, that if she got ANY worse, then we would let her go. And it was damn hard to make that decision. But we made it because we wanted her to be at peace, and we knew, we KNEW she was suffering as she was. Amazingly, she started getting better almost immediately after that, and I'm so freakin happy to say my grandma made it to my wedding, and she might even be able to travel to my graduation in a little over a month. So yeah, some of us have been through this kind of decision making. But it is all up to Terri's family. And I'm also ashamed that we all even know anything about it. But since we do, and some of us feel so strongly about it, what are we to do but discuss? That's what these forums are for. I'm sorry that this happens to anyone. Hell, this is why I don't discuss it much anyway...but since you asked if anyone's been through it....
I have had personal experiences also. I do not feel that we are butting in where we don't belong seeing how the Schindler's have made pleas for the public to get involved. As I said, being Catholic and also a health care providing in nursing homes, she could have recieved her Last Rites. In fact, there is a woman that goes to our Parish that is on a feeding tube but is still able to take a small piece of the Host and let it melt in her mouth. I don't think putting the Host in the tube directly would be considered acceptable. I'm going to have to ask the Priest about that one.
Thank you, good2bhome. I want to know also, as my FIL will want Last Rights (he had them once before, and after receiving the Host, recovered) and if he cannot swallow, it would be good to know if it could be placed in his feeding tube. The last time, he was able to swallow, but we don't know if he will if he gets so sick with the cancer this time. He has throat cancer and swallowing is nearly impossible at this point, and we don't know if the chemo and radiation will work. If you can PM me with the answer, I would appreciate it. (Just don't put a read receipt on it, as my computer messes up.) Thank you for your help. I am sure the information will help my FIL feel more comfortable.
I never said I agreed with their methods on caring for Terri. I never said I agreed with her husband. It's not up to you or me to sit and speculate on what should be done about Terri. It's none of our business. I sure wouldn't want my child/adult to be part of this sideshow. None of you ever heard of Terri before they dicided to remove the tube. Now everyones is all opinionated and judgemental on the right or wrong of it. As far a last rites. THat is a ritual for symbolizum. It will not matter one way or the other. GOD knows what's in your heart. You dont have to eat or drink anything to be one with Creator. You really think that GOD cares if you eat a cookie before you pass over. Is there a sign on the Pearly Gates that says, none shall pass through here untill you eat the cookie. Is your GOD that petty. The scaraments are man made. You think not eating that cookie/bread/cracker wil keep Terri from entering. It doesn't mean nothin', it's man made like I said before. You think GOD will hold it against her and begrudge her. What kind of GOD do you worship. Did you ever think that Terri may be ready to leave here, esp NOW. When everyone is up in her biz. I dont know but Do you think Terri wants to lay there another 15 yrs. I'm gussing that Terri is so heavily sedated that she probably feels no pain, they call that comfort care. Whatever happens, happens the way it was/is suppose to happen. None of us know Creators plan, we just clamore about mindlessly voicing uneducated guesses. I don't Working in a nursing home does not quailify you to diagnose or prescribe treatment. A priest is not qualified to make that discission either. Terri's Spirit is in tact and God will take care of it. Creator will not deny her because she didn't eat the cracker. WE can only pray for Terri, that she has an easy passing. What is done is done. We can Pray for her parents, to ease their suffering. The dicission has been made and with great deliberation and scruteny for 15 yrs now. I did not want to let my daughter go either, but to keep her would be miserable for her. Endless suffering with no hope for recovery. To keep bringing her back when her body couldn't function on it's own is selfish and cruel. When my daddy lay ding,, they kpt bringing him back, they brought him back three time. The last time, his last words were ' Dont bring me back again, for I have seen the other side and it's time for me to go home' He then said Mama's waiting for me. Then he passed gently away. Maybe all this is keeping Terri from going home.
You have no way of knowing that. As for Last Rites, it IS a big part of some people's beleifs, and makes them feel better, I would certainly want them, if I was on Death's Door, if you don't, that's fine, too. It is a matter of personal beleif, and plenty of people have Extreme Unction when they are unconscious. It isn't up to anyone but that person and their family to say if they get it or not, and Terri was a strong Catholic, and that is part of her faith. WHY would you have a problem with the poor womyn being Blessed in her last hours? This is a DISCUSSION BOARD, and this womyn is in the news, so we are discussing her. If you don't want to, you certainly don't have to. But some of us want to. <shrug> None of us have any influence on what will happen, so I don't see what the big deal is.
All of the bastards are using the poor woman. The media/courts. Most don't give a damn if she lives or dies. Down here in Florida it's all a person sees and hears on local news. I believe her husband should have bowed out long ago and allowed her parents to care for her. It really is a sad thing if all of you get your heads out of your asses and give it some real thought.
I do not believe that Terri will be kept out of Heaven because she is denied her Last Rites. I don't believe that is the Church's teaching either. However, it is *her right* as a Catholic to recieve Extreme Unction and any Catholic would want that. Why can't she? Because some man says so, bull! As for the inflammatory comments made about the Catholic Church, get over yourself. Everyone has a right to their religion and Catholics have a right to theirs. And actually, working in a nursing home does qualify me to diagnosis and prescribe treatment in a sense, since what I tell the doctor gets medication and treatment prescribed. You see doctors are not gods. Usually we call and tell the doctor what the patient needs and he okays it, no visit required.
Protests Outside Schiavo Hospice Chaotic That's just ridiculous. That is NO place for that kind of protesting. It's an outrage that people are doing this because of a case that none of us should have ever heard about. This is between her parents, her husband, and the courts, but should not be the media circus it has become, NOR should congress have gotten involved. Good god man...I would have punched some people if I'd have had to walk in to see my grandmother dying with all that going on around. (and don't get me wrong, I'm not against protests at all...but this is just not the place for it IMHO)
