Taxes... what do you think about them?

I've been spending some time lately thinking about taxes.

Let me start by saying that I think taxes can serve a good purpose and help provide things society (at least in it's current form) needs to progress. At the same time though, I have trouble justifying many of the taxes we are hit with (I'm an American).

So I decided to make a list of things that our taxes dollars are supposed to go to and see how much I could cross off that list. I would also like the input from anyone would would like to join in this discussion. If you could at least give a brief explanation for your reasoning it would also help. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion, and I'm always interested to learn why people think the way they do.

So here is the list (will be updated as this discussion progresses):

1. Military spending
Personally, I don't believe violence and destruction are the answer to anything. I can understand the desire for defense though. The problem, here in America, is our leaders seem to think the best defense is a strong offense (which can be true from a certain perspective). This type of action is what causes a lot of the negative feelings towards us though I believe. In my opinion, the money we spend on destructive defense like weapons could go much further towards the objective of defense by being spent on humanitarian efforts. And even if we could make this change in tactics, I don't believe this is something citizens should be forced to pay for. Voluntary donations sure, but a mandatory tax I don't believe is justified.

2. Healthcare
This is quite a controversial subject, and truthfully I don't know what side of the fence I'm on. I do think it would be great if someone could just go to the doctor when they are sick and get fixed up, but our current system is so messed up I wouldn't know where to begin to fix it. It is one of the things I think a mandatory tax might be justifiable for, but only if the cost of medical treatment could be GREATLY reduced to something reasonable.

3. Education
I am a HUGE supporter of education, but not the type we currently have. We are living in a new era with access to the greatest educational resource to ever exist (the internet) and I think that needs to become the focus. I believe education is something that one should be excited about and not something forced upon you. I also think that beyond the basics (reading, writing, basic arithmetic) children should be allowed to decided what it is they want to learn. I also think there should be lots of "maker-spaces" available to the public. Places where people can build, create, and innovate. Everybody should have access to tools and the knowledge of how to use them.

4. Safety (Firefighter, police, etc)
I'm still on the fence about this one, but I'm leaning more to the side of volunteer service rather than tax funded. There are many smaller communities where volunteer firefighters are the norm and it seems to work ok. I'm not sure how well this works in bigger areas though. As far as police go, I think it should also be volunteer. Most of "safety" police provide could be obtained by putting more guns in the hands of law abiding citizens. I'm not a fan of guns (I think they are for pussies), but they aren't going away so we might as well embrace that fact and make criminals think twice before they do something stupid. It's a proven fact that more guns in law abiding hands equals less violent crime.

5. Infrastructure (roads, bridges, mass transportation, the internet, etc)
This is one I believe tax dollars are required for. Almost everyone uses it (the few who don't should be allowed to be exempt) and without it, not very much would be getting done. There is plenty of room for improvement though (like long distances being traveled through the air so road/rails aren't needed and short distance being human powered by walking or bicycles). I also believe the Internet is so important that everyone should have easy access to it. No need to control it, just to provide it.

6. Food
Our gov't spends a lot on money on stupid shit in this particular area. Providing areas in communities for people to grow their own food and education on how to do that for those who don't know, is about all I could justify spending tax dollars on.

7. Welfare
Gov't should have very little to do with this. People do fall on hard times, but lots of people are just lazy too. Who better than the neighbor's, friends, and family of said individuals to decide who really needs a helping hand and who just needs a kick in their lazy ass. In the event that someone has no living friends, family, etc. very basic support should be available for very limited amounts of time.

8. Big gov't
I'm gonna get a little out there on this one. In this day and age, where nearly everybody can instantly contact someone else anywhere in the world, I don't understand the need for gov't representatives and law makers. Why do I need to vote for someone who is suppose to vote for me? Why not let the people's own voices speak for themselves? No more need for expensive buildings and staff to fill them right? And the majority of the " Department of (Insert random word here)" aren't needed and are extremely wasteful in my opinion.

9. The justice system
What a joke. While I do believe it is good to have an environment were people can settle their disputes and criminals can be dealt with, our current justice system is anything but. The number one problem (in my book at least) is that there is just way too many laws. If you have to go to an ivy league university and spend hundred's of thousands of dollars to obtain a piece of paper that says you understand a piece (usually very small and specific) of our laws, something is VERY wrong. Shit, god supposedly only had 10 laws and most of those were repetitive (youtube the George Carlin 10 commandment stand up if you haven't seen it). With that said I'd like to write some new basic laws that you guys can help me flesh out if you want.

LAW #1 Be a decent fucking person!

The End

 

Not to detract from your entire idea but what do you define as a decent human being?

 

Sorry tl;dr

Moar taxes. I love 'em.

 

I guess everybody's definition of that may vary slightly, but in general, I think most people have a pretty good idea.

personally, I would define it as someone who makes at least some effort to be positive. Someone who realizes they are not the center of the universe and can find happiness in helping others.

Selfishness I believe is the root of most of our societies current problems, but that is just my belief from what I have experienced and observed.

 

All well and good my friend. Yet all of these point not to a decent human being but a "moral" one. Of course when one says decent do they not typically drink from the same cup as morality? Of course then we must ask ourselves how one defines morality. What makes you decent?

 

I feel like you are focusing on the EXACT definition of a word, when everyone's definition is going to vary slightly (sometimes greatly) like I previously stated. The "Be a decent fucking person" was meant to be more of a joke (over simplification of a somewhat complex problem) rather than taken dead seriously.

What make me believe I am "decent" you ask. Well, I understand that I am selfish, I do not beat myself up for being so though because I also understand that it's just how I've been programmed through culture and nature possibly. I try my best to be positive at all times and help others whenever it's within my means to do so.

I also believe almost everybody is generally good. everyone makes mistakes and most of the time too much focus is put on those mistakes which is obvious every time you turn on the news. This leads to people thinking the world is filled with terrorist, rapist,and murderers which then leads to treating strangers accordingly.

None of this has much to do with the intended subject of this thread though which is taxes

 

Give unto Ceasar what is his

 

great quote. Now, was it written by some really smart guys like 1800 years ago to make people more willing to pay their taxes, or was it actually spoken by a guy who a lot of people believe was the son of god?

and if the latter is true, did he mean to just pay you taxes or something else?

 

That would depend on how you percieve Jesus and the bible. It would also depend on your personal understanding of him and his teachings.

 

You make good points, Rhett. It has always seemed to me that the acquisition of taxes should necessarily follow with an accounting of the expenditure of those taxes. Not just what they were spent on, but a receipt showing a break down of what was paid for what.

What else is corruption ever about besides dipping the hand into the tax-pot?

 

"Give unto Caesar..."....It just meant don't fuck with 'the man', it ain't worth it...

 

i'm personally against taxes generally, though since it seems i mist pay them (at least sales tax) i'd like them to go to education and the arts instead of military and law enforcement. we spend way too much on those. i say cut military and law enforcement spending in half at least and put it into the arts and education.

 

you can never be too damn high!

 

As someone with a clear vested interest, but however, not a theologian, I believe that the full quote would be "Who's head appears on the coin? Render unto Caesar that which Caesar's. And unto God that which is God's"

Irrespective of who wrote or said it, I think is it intended to illustrate the difference between temporal dues and religious dues. Fundamentally, one could say "don't drag religion into what are essentially political questions and don't listen to a church which requires a monetary fee for providing salvation."

Seems to have fallen on deaf ears throughout the last 2000 years or so...

 

I was always entertained by those who can bargain with the divine for the sake of the bargained. If Jesus was half as genuine as what the word says he was a great teacher. In those times the interrelating of spiritual truth and human truth were much less vague. Far more simple to separate.

 

Good points. Especially #8.

 

and you know this how???

 

Thank you, although realistically I came into this thread more as a curiosity. I almost never discuss politics, horrible at it in all honesty

Simply by understanding.

 

you're so full of shit.