Taboo Topics

Don't name in vain stop the chain.

Does't mean refrain from calling a spade a card.

 

I'm curious about this---a little clarification please----are you saying that people who want to be 'deemed' liberal (and are not really liberal) are this way, or are you implying that liberals are this way?

I am just curious as to how this stereotype is.

 

I'm saying conservatives tend to be willing and able to discuss facts in an honest way. Liberals tend to ignore facts and say things that fly in the face of evidence.

For example the Michael Brown case in Ferguson. There was dogmatic consensus that the 6'5, 300 pound Brown was dragged into a police cruiser by a racist cop, who made Brown put his hand on his gun, which fired and injured Brown's hand and left gunpowder residue. Brown proceeded to flee as Wilson mercilessly fired at him from behind. Brown summarily put his hands up, turned around, got on his knees and pleaded for his life at which point the racist cop executed him in cold blood.

Liberals all over the country parroted this story again and again. As the contradictory evidence piled up they reluctantly ceded point after point. The gentle giant turned out to not be gentle at all. The racist cop turned out not to be motivated by race. Most liberals will STILL insert their racist projections into the mind of this police officer. Their is uproar every time a white cop kills a black person. You can count the number of these examples with your fingers but every time it happens there is uproar as if it's the main cause of death for black people. Guess what? Black males make up about 6% of the population and they account for over 50% of the murders. Put your emotions on the shelf for 12 seconds and tell me how chronic really is the problem of white cops shooting black men? How hard is a police officer's job, and how likely would you be to profile to some extent when MOST of the murders in this country are carried out by this small minority of the population?

I have considered myself a progressive all my life. As I grow older I find myself in a Libertarian mindset more and more. They seem the most able to see things for what they are and face facts. Liberals are muzzled by the PC restrictions of society. We can't solve problems if we can't talk about them honestly.

TLR "[SIZE=11.8181819915771px]are you saying that people who want to be 'deemed' liberal (and are not really liberal) are this way, or are you implying that liberals are this way?"[/SIZE]

People who want to be deemed liberal must submit to unfounded egalitarian views. If you commit to those views for long enough and never budge no matter what evidence is presented in opposition, you have successfully become a Liberal.

 

I’m glad you clarified that for me, because as a liberal---even a radical---I keep screwing up and thinking the wrong things----apparently. Now, let me see if I get this straight---I am not supposed to pay attention to facts that challenge my assumptions, and I must give in to the unfounded egalitarian views of others. And then when something like Ferguson happens, I am supposed to not want to talk about race---because that is taboo---but then I am supposed to immediately call out cops as racist. Also I keep forgetting, am I supposed to be pro-gun, or pro-gun control----it is so difficult to follow what other people dictate, and not think for myself.

Now, let me garner the facts that you have presented to me. Conservatives think that we should talk about racism in an open, honest, manner, based on the facts that present themselves, even if they seem to fly into the face of reason.

Let me interject something here---conservatives such as Bill O’Reilly---say that there is no racism in this country. Since he is conservative, and he is talking about race, and seems to agree with Fox News, for example, then I guess that is the honest conclusion based on what the facts show. (Ok conservatives follow facts, talk about racism in an open manner, and there is no racism in America anymore----I think I am getting the hang of this.)

Now you have told me that the Ferguson cop was not racist---ok got it. And there is outrage every time a cop kills a black person. The facts show that black men kill more people than anyone else—boy that is terrible---black men are killers (I think I made a terrible mistake with my stepdaughters by allowing them to marry black men---I just didn’t know…)

Now you tell me that because of this fact that black men kill more people, and the fact that a police officer’s job is difficult, that it is ‘ok’ in the heat of the moment (and apparently not racist) to do a bit of racial profiling. What do all these black men that kill so many people all have in common----oh yes----it is the color of their skin.

Boy---I am learning a lot here: Black men are killers. Racial profiling by a police officer is not racist. Killing black people by police officers is part of the job, just like stopping and frisking black people was (until those stupid liberals got in the way) a part of the job in New York.

(So this makes one wonder---and clearly I can’t ask a liberal this question, or think for myself (because I am a liberal)-----why do black people kill so much? Is it their skin color? Maybe it’s the shape of their skull. And why do Jewish people always get all the money and control everything---is it skull shape do you suppose? They seem so different from us honest, hard working, God-fearing, white folk----maybe if we were to set up camps for them…)

Should we be concerned with the fact that, for example, the kid in Ferguson did not have a gun? (Oh wait! Here I am, a liberal, trying to think for myself again---I forgot, he was black, and he will probably just kill someone someday anyway. The facts are what they are.)


Hmmmmmmm… as a hippie, and we were all liberal anti-establishment types, this just doesn’t sit right with me. And my darn liberal education keeps getting in the way, and makes me want to think for myself. Here’s a really weird liberal concept—and I know it sounds really crazy and radical and probably a pipe dream---but we should have some kind of crazy (now this might be the acid talking----you know from back in the day) ideal wherein the individual is deemed innocent until proven guilty, regardless of the length of his/her hair, the color of his/her skin, his/her sexual orientation, his/her ethnic profile…

And here is what my liberal education tells me---if I were to think for myself for a minute---and this is going to be a bunch of liberal Jungian psychobabble, so bear with me for a minute: Yes, racism is still a serious problem in this country. But it is at the stage where it is collectively denied---this means that it has been repressed into the shadow of the collective unconscious----or we could say that this is a nation of many people who deny that they are racist, because being racist is a bad thing, and have therefore repressed itself into their shadow element of their subconscious---where it still pokes out, usually without their even being aware of it; or we project it onto others, seeing that they are racist or dogmatic or whatever the issue is—that they are bad, without realizing that it is the projection of our own faults onto others.

As long as we assert in Bill O’Reilly fashion that racism is dead and gone in this country, it will continue to fester and victimize. It has to be faced and acknowledged in an honest manner-----it is like any other problem we face in the growth of the individual, and since we are at heart a nation of individuals, this process of individuation plays out in a collective manner.

I have a conservative friend that sounds just like you---actually a number of them----but this one friend in particular likes to try to win me over to the dark side. He came to visit one time and we took him up to a hot springs in the mountains. It was a good 3 hour drive, and my wife fell asleep so we got to talking politics. We were arguing over Obama, when he made a couple of points that I turned back on him, and asked him if that is what he truly believed. He immediately responded, “No! Of course not! That is racist! Are you racist, I’m not racist!”

“But you said,” I responded. I let it go----and laughed quietly to myself that over the past hour he had told me that---the east coast is being over run by black people; that because of black people always stealing things, everyone that goes into a Walmart, where he comes from is a suspect (he was surprised that on my way out of a Walmart, I realized I forgot something, and just turned around and walked back in to buy what I needed); and that Black people and Hispanics are ruining this country with all their children, single mothers, and their dependence on welfare.

A day or two later, while soaking in the hot springs, he confided in me how terrible racism is, and that he doesn’t even see race when he deals with people. I just told him, “I’m glad you understand that.”

Let’s look at some issues:

1.) There is a serious problem in this country of police violence on citizens—regardless of race.
2.) A black male baby born in America in 2011, is almost 3 times more likely to be killed by a police officer than a white non-hispanic baby (statistics collected by the Center for Disease Control and Prevention 1999 - 2011).
3.) A Native American baby born in 2011 is the most likely to be shot and killed by a police officer. Native Americans make up 0.8% of the population, but whereas blacks (13% of the population) will have their men between the ages of 20 – 44 killed by police at the rate of 15.7/million people, Native American males between the same ages are killed at the rate of 17.1/million people (the same CDC statistics).
4.) Incarceration rates are even worse (but I do not have the statistics at my fingerprints right now)---and Native Americans are the most likely to go to Jail or prison than blacks which are still far more likely to go to jail or prison for the same offense than whites.

Did you know that in the midst of all the media hoopla over Ferguson and the New York chokehold case, there was a young unarmed Paiute Indian man killed by a Police Officer in Utah? He was riding in his mom’s car, heading back home to his mom’s house, a friend was driving. The police started chasing them and, fearing the typical police harassment the Paiute experience, they tried to flee. They pulled down a dirt road and tried to get away until the car got high centered. His friend ran away on foot, but Corey Kanosh decided to stay with his mother’s car (neither one had outstanding warrants nor had they committed a crime). His friend heard the police show up to the car as he ran, and only a few moments later heard the gunshots that killed his friend----the police believed the car was stolen (it wasn’t). That didn’t even make the news.

I have many close Native American friends. One really good friend tenses up whenever the cops drive by when we are in the car together. He is one of the greatest guys I know---very caring and friendly to everyone---the Natives nicknamed him Care Bear, because he looks kind of like a pudgy teddy bear—and is so caring. He has been arrested for public drunkenness when he wasn’t drunk, and he has been to jail numerous times (and recently spent 30 days in jail) for petty minor offenses---minor traffic offenses. The only real crime that he is guilty of-----his grandfather was one of the spiritual leaders of the American Indian Movement (AIM), and his mother is active in it. They are all vocal and active in trying to free Leonard Peltier (Who is recognized internationally as a political prisoner and is still in prison despite the fact that almost all the evidence against him has been proven to be fabricated, and any of the other evidence is circumstantial).

Was the cop in Ferguson racist? Maybe not---he was an individual. But do you think that is going to matter to a black person who is tired of hearing about the killing of young black men by police at a rate that is greater than that of young white men, or that his or her friends are far more likely to be put in jail than white people, and then there is the constant racial profiling that he or she is subject to.

Police violence is a problem. Racial profiling is a problem. The statistically proven unfair treatment of Native Americans, Blacks, and Hispanics by both the Police and the judicial system of this country is a problem. Racism in America is still a problem. Philosophically---existentially, the objectification and subsequent dethroning of the individual in this country, is a serious problem.

Taboos? There should be no taboos---it is time for this country to wake up and face its problems!

Conservatives love to pigeonhole liberals---as stupid, politically correct, socialist, anti-gun freaks, oblivious to the facts, dogmatic, tax-raising, godless, and on and on. I don’t fit into the pigeonholes and I can’t think of any of my liberal friends (and most of them are) that fit into those pigeonholes. I don’t know why the definition of liberalism in this country has become so diametrically opposed to the true spirit of liberalism.

What I do know though is that the Republican Party embarked on a very determined divide and conquer strategy, as far back as the early 1990’s or so (I’d have to check on that again as to when they started). They have focused on, and pushed hard on, pivot issues (e.g. women’s rights, gun control, homosexuality, entitlements, etc) in order to polarize this nation----and they have been very effective at that. Look at how ineffective congress has become as a governing body. A great part of our strength as a nation was based in the give and take between the liberal and conservative bodies of our nation. We continued to move forward on a shifting center. Today this country has lost its center, shifting too far to the right, and everyone, left or right, is pigeonholed as idiotic dogmatic drones swimming in a quagmire of propaganda, misinformation, and conspiracy theories.

 

Speaking of being PC-------


http://youtu.be/FZyLiCtikVg

 

lol

 

Western values are so oppressive.

Current Slavery Rates http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/10/17/this-map-shows-where-the-worlds-30-million-slaves-live-there-are-60000-in-the-u-s/

Birthrate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_by_birth_rate#mediaviewer/File:Birth_rate_figures_for_countries.PNG

Maybe partially due to all the raping going on there https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2013/07/11/statistics-muslim-countries-obsessed-with-womens-honour-have-one-of-the-highest-rape-scales-in-the-world/

LGBT rights http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory#mediaviewer/File:LGBT_rights_at_the_UN.svg

IQ http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:IQ_by_Country.png

White guilt for life. White guilt forever!

 

So what exactly is your point with all of this, Nerd?

Lets suppose for a minute that you are correct in your assumptions concerning IQ and race everything else you have put forth.
What then?
do we round them up and have them force sterilized to prevent them from breeding or should we just kill them outright?

I mean from what you continually stating, the world as a whole will be better off without these low IQ, resource gobbling, breeding like vermin, obviously inferior "humans".
Sure we can keep a few blacks around for their athletic prowess so you don't get bored watching basketball, and some Asians because they are really good with electronics with those tiny fingers and all, but the rest are just a blight on the planet, correct?

Yeah, lets just start rounding up anyone who's skin is more than two degrees darker than yours and the world will be saved and become a happy place for the white folk.





oh, by the way, neighbors haven't started to use Gatorade to water the lawn yet, so sorry, still no debate, But I am hopeful.
I saw a Mexican gardener drinking a Power Aide the other day and he spilled some on the ground, that's a start at least.

 

I've already stated that I'm very firmly against any compulsory actions of that sort. Any compulsory actions at all are unnacceptable, that's not a society we want to live in. This is about incentives. Carrot for highly intelligent people procreating. Carrot for people with severe mental deficits NOT having six kids and using welfare to feed them.

This is a dysgenics snowball rolling downhill, gathering momentum. The natural way of things is for the less intelligent to procreate wayyyy more than the more intelligent. We are working magic when we make that snowball roll up hill. It requires effort. As soon as apathy sets in, the snowball starts to roll downhill again.

In the past, evolutionary bottlenecks did the work to remove the unresourceful from the genepool. To properly provide and care for your kids requires some requisite intellectual ability. Let's arbitrarily assign a value of a 90 IQ. To MAKE kids requires much, much less intellectual ability. You essentially just need to figure out which hole to stick your dick in. For that, let's arbitrarily assign an IQ of 50, maybe you can get away with less.

The intellectual basement used to be set at 90, now it's set at 50 or 60 or 70. Whatever. These are people who are more likely to hit their kids in lieu of critical thinking and problem solving, and they're less likely to give great philosophical advice about how to avoid violence, respond to violence, be responsible, and strive for intellectual excellence. These are often people who give labels like "uncle tom" and denegrate those who integrate into a society of western values. They might "act white" or "talk white" and that must be a bad thing.

I'll say it, societies built on western values ARE SUPERIOR. See here

Hitting Kids http://cdn-images.9cloud.us/71/piccit_corporal_punishment___world__343472640.gif

Current Slavery Rates http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/10/17/this-map-shows-where-the-worlds-30-million-slaves-live-there-are-60000-in-the-u-s

Birthrate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_by_birth_rate#mediaviewer/File:Birth_rate_figures_for_countries.PNG

Maybe partially due to all the raping going on there https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2013/07/11/statistics-muslim-countries-obsessed-with-womens-honour-have-one-of-the-highest-rape-scales-in-the-world

LGBT rights http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory#mediaviewer/File:LGBT_rights_at_the_UN.svg

IQ http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:IQ_by_Country.png

I want to see incentives for highly western, highly intelligent people to have kids. I want incentives for people who rail against western values to have smaller families. Start with a max of 3 kids. That would probably solve the problem, if it didn't, many years down the road incentivize a max of 2 kids.

 

and it is veiled racism of the worst kind at it's core.
you are not fooling anyone

 

Are you religious? If you lack a reasoned argument, you can always pull the faith card, or the racism card.

I admit of physical differences between Asians, Europeans, and Africans. I admit of mental differences between Asians, Europeans, and Africans. If that puts me on your racist radar then I am on your racist radar. However, these are facts that you cannot dispute. You may wish to ignore them, but you cannot dispute them.

 

the facts aren't disputed, it is your conclusions and interpretation of them that is in question and blatantly racist.

 

Hitting Kids http://cdn-images.9cloud.us/71/piccit_corporal_punishment___world__343472640.gif

Current Slavery Rates http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/10/17/this-map-shows-where-the-worlds-30-million-slaves-live-there-are-60000-in-the-u-s/

Birthrate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_by_birth_rate#mediaviewer/File:Birth_rate_figures_for_countries.PNG

Maybe partially due to all the raping going on there https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2013/07/11/statistics-muslim-countries-obsessed-with-womens-honour-have-one-of-the-highest-rape-scales-in-the-world/

LGBT rights http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory#mediaviewer/File:LGBT_rights_at_the_UN.svg

IQ http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:IQ_by_Country.png

Why is Africa so bad in every social and technological area?

 

I see, so your response is to spam the same crap over and over?

 

If you would address it bluntly it wouldn't bear repeating.

At least tell me how I'm misinterpreting the data as you say. How am I reaching false conclusions.

Europeans and Asians ventured into a new landscape and procreated based on their intelligence for many hundreds of generations. It was forced upon them by the conditions they found themselves in. Africans continued to hunt and gather successfully in a much warmer, much more familiar environment. They procreated based on physical prowess. We can tell because people of West African descent dominate sprinting, people of East African descent dominate distance running. NBA is over 80% black, NFL is over 70% black. Where am I going wrong? Black people have demonstrably more dense bones. Asians have demonstrably bigger brain volumes.

How am I mistaken? These are facts. The conclusion is, people of African ancestry have equal potential innately, when we were all in Africa 100,000 years ago we all had equal potential. People who stayed in Africa have catching up to do if they want to match wits with the people who went north. They're not worse, they're just behind. Am I wrong? How am I wrong?

 

Oh my god! What cesspool did I stumble into??????

Nerdanderthal-----I take it you have never traveled outside of America and gotten to know other people in other cultures. I've traveled the world and spent well over 15 years living in Asia-----believe me, there are dumb people and smart people where ever you go. Where ever you go there are human beings. A lot of what you are talking about, in terms of cultural superiority involves economic realities, availability of resources, and other factors, not how superior one group is over another.

Do you not understand that any dominant culture, unfairly and improperly measures everyone else against its own cultural biases. Take IQ tests for example----they have been shown time and again to be culturally biased towards white people, especially those within specific economic and social classes.

Take the example of Hinduism---a few hundred years ago some European scholars examined Hinduism and declared it to be a polytheistic faith----they have all these gods---unlike the superior Christian faith which has only one. The Indians would have responded, 'oh, ok you only have one god, that's interesting, we only have one atman, but many gods, but if that is how it works, then I guess you are monotheistic and we are polytheistic. From that point on Christians delighted in the superiority of their monotheistic religion over Hinduism (and all the others)----'those crazy Indians, how can you worship all those gods--that is so primitive.' And that has been the academic standard from which all religious studies and comparisons that deal with Eastern religion is based on from that point forward. But the problem is that a Diva or a Deva does not directly apply to our concept of god. If the tables had been turned, the Indians could have said---'what is going on here? You have a holy spirit, a god, a jesus, and how does this Mother Mary fit in? This is a polytheistic faith, unlike our monotheistic faith where there is only one atman...'

My Lakota friend that I mentioned previously---I guess he is what you would call a savage. He barely has a High School education. He is not what you would call educated in the sciences. But one night he and I sat up all night drinking coffee and talking quantum physics. He didn't know any fancy terms like quantum uncertainty, or wave/particle duality, nor was he able to explain that Einstein's theory of Relativity states that a photon is a zero-mass/zero-time particle, or anything like that. In fact he spoke of such things as taku skan skan---the animating force through out the universe in Lakota belief. He talked spirits, and so forth---but he talked about the cosmological nature of matter and the universe-----and while I talked wave/particle duality, and zero-mass/zero-time----and once you put his language into that of the quantum physicist, his understanding was genius-----he should be teaching quantum physics at the local university. I then understood why Albert Einstein called his grandfather---Wallace Black Elk------the only teacher he ever knew (until then I thought it was just a spiritual thing).

Which brings up another point----Western Medicine----we are so superior with our doctors and medicines, right? Well the Rockefeller's had a child---I forget who, but he was suffering some fatal disease and they had spent a lot of money on doctors and been all over trying to get it cured, but there was no hope for him. Then they contacted Wallace Black Elk and asked him to cure him. They paid to have a whole ward blocked off at one of the major hospitals here----either Denver General or Children's Hospital---I forget which. He then held a healing ceremony there, and cured him.

Another friend of mine, also Lakota, had a kidney stone that put him in the emergency room. They sent him to IHS (Indian Health Services) where they did an MRI, and told him that his kidneys had quite a few stones in them and that they would have to do a sonic blast of them----I can't think of the term off hand----but it is a painful procedure. He said no thank you and went to a medicine man. I went to the healing sweat as well where he was healed. He told this to IHS who insisted that he should come in for another MRI, which he did---and his kidneys were clean. I have seen, first hand, the healing of cancer, heart disease, and any number of other ailments.

Which treatment would you prefer for kidney stones (i.e. which one really is superior)? Seriously, I am convinced that the cure rate for a medicine man is far better than that of a Western Doctor. How often does chemotherapy work, and how much pain and suffering does it put you through for how long. A healing ceremony is painless and lasts a few hours at most.


By the way, I am sure you are familiar with which humanoid group migrated out of Africa first? If they were superior by migrating first----what happened to them?

And also I suggest you take a look at the definition of racism and meditate upon it for a bit----here is one I quickly pulled off the web:

rac·ism
ˈrāˌsizəm/
noun
noun: racism

the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
"a program to combat racism"
synonyms: racial discrimination, racialism, racial prejudice, xenophobia, chauvinism, bigotry, casteism
"Aborigines are the main victims of racism in Australia"



By the way----were you asserting, like Bill O'Reilly, that racism does not exist in America?

 

No you are not wrong, you are wrong because you are not right.

 

Mountain Valley Wolf, you are not speaking the language of science. You're free to embrace eastern medicine, it is one of the least reliable methods on the planet for curing illnesses. It almost certainly helps you feel better, but there is no evidence it will help you get better. In many cases it surely does more harm than good.

IQ tests are biased towards those with highly developed abilities in the following areas.


Visual–spatial[SIZE=small][edit][/SIZE]
Main article: Spatial intelligence (psychology)
This area deals with spatial judgment and the ability to visualize with the mind's eye. Spatial ability is one of the three factors beneath g in the hierarchical model of intelligence.[7]

Verbal–linguistic[SIZE=small][edit][/SIZE]
Main article: Linguistic intelligence
People with high verbal-linguistic intelligence display a facility with words and languages. They are typically good at reading, writing, telling stories and memorizing words along with dates.[7] Verbal ability is one of the most g-loaded abilities.[8] This type of intelligence is measured with the Verbal IQ in WAIS-III.

Logical–mathematical[SIZE=small][edit][/SIZE]
Further information: Reason
This area has to do with logic, abstractions, reasoning, numbers and critical thinking.[7] This also has to do with having the capacity to understand the underlying principles of some kind of causal system.[6] Logical reasoning is closely linked to fluid intelligence and to general intelligence (g factor).[9]


It just so happens that East Asians perform better than white people on the tests which white people designed. If a black person excels on an IQ test, they have dramatically better chances of achieving high levels of education and landing a high paying job. IQ tests do not judge the color of your skin they judge the abilities of your mind.
Any charleton or conman can ring of several anecdotal examples and then try to sell you snake oil. That's what you're trying to do right now. Scientific literacy is inoculation against getting duped. Until you present a reasoned argument I can't in good conscience listen to the crazy shit you're saying.

 

What is the language of science?

 

Formal Logic, invented by Aristotle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywKZgjpMBUU

The formation of reasoned arguments, while avoiding these logical fallacies. https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/assets/FallaciesPosterHigherRes.jpg

The scientific method stems from these ideas, and adds extra layers of experimentation and peer review.