Swinging, and personal issues....

It has meaning, and is in most dictionaries.
Meaning, by definition, is not material.
If you meant it is not refering to a material thing, you are correct. It is not a noun, it is a verb.

Just a couple I pulled quickly

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/objectification

wiki-

These attitudes are a part of insensitivity

People turn to objectification in order to minimize emotional empathy and attachment, which enables them to be less vulnerable to emotional discomfort and various relational complications.

This is why it is a common defense mechanism.

 

I am glad you dusted off your big black dic rather than serve me some made up drivel because, as you can plainly see, objectification has nothing to do with sex.

Get some new cliche material.

 

You're over-thinking this. If you ever try promiscuity and don't like the people or the vibe, you can simply stop doing it.

 

Do you even read any of what you respond to?

The topic of this thread is not "sex" in general.

The topic is "swinging"- sex with multiple strangers.


Defense mechanisms (such as objectification) often come into play in social situations of exchange with others- particularly, where knowledge of each others lives and trust is not established



Swinging is a social activity of exchange between strangers. Therefore, it is rational to consider that objectification may arise in order to prevent emotional attachment during these exchanges.



Sex with partners you know and trust most likely will NOT stimulate one to defend themselves this way- but that is off topic in this thread.

You know, I am trying very hard to be respectful and stay on topic with you despite all the strange comments (which I think are supposed to be insulting, but I don't understand them- I know even less about the Spice Girls than Mick Jagger.... what is with the references to old british pop stars around here?)

It seems obvious you want to bang your head when people talk of objectification because you have no knowledge of what that means, and are pretty ignorant of psychology and sociobiology.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with that... but instead of making a bunch of insults when you don't understand, why not just say you don't have knowledge about this and ask for some precision or explanation?

My posts get pretty darn long anyway, and if I can save some length by using one word instead of fifty, I try to. I hope that others are already familiar with the word and know the full meaning of it, (that is why such words exist) and it what areas it has been associated with and why. Sometimes a reader doesn't know, and all they have to do is ask and I will stop and explain.
I don't know jack shit about geophysics or football, so I don't go to forums and threads on those subjects, but if I did, I would ask for some explanation about the terminology before taking any personal stance on what was being said .

-Or you can look it up yourself- the definitions are just as available to you as they were to me, with the click of a finger!


As for being "cliché"- it is easy to observe the truth in this idea, as you can observe it here and now. You are treating me in a callous and insensitive way, as if I have no feelings, no thoughts, no personal soverignty to respect. This is a rather common event on message boards (it does not mean you are "mean" or "evil"). You can examine yourself inside and see exactly why you are doing this. You do not need to tell anyone. But I am willing to bet that it has more to do with defending yourself against past, future or potential threat than anything else. You don't know me, you don't have any trust in me, and keeping me an object (be it good or bad) in your mind is a safer bet. No?

 

You do not consider that even trying it once might have big and far reaching repercussions?

I am concerned about my marriage.
My husband was marriage once before, with another woman. One day he found out she was having an affair, an they tried to stay together afterwards, but he found he just could not trust her anymore, despite his efforts, and did not feel secure in the relationship any more, and they had to separate.

I understand that the honesty involved in swinging might be what makes the difference and not cause the same problems.

But having not tried this myself yet, I am not sure how deeply I might be affected by seeing my husband having great sex with another woman. Perhaps that will be fine with me (that is what I imagine) , or perhaps the image will haunt me as days pass, and all sorts of deep insecurities get provoked to arise, and I enter a crisis that destroys our marriage?

But yeah, you are right, I have probably thought it all through as much as I possibly can. I have always been afraid that a certain level of maturity and emotional balance is necessary for people to successfully live an open marriage... my parents were not ready yet.

My big question in all this has been "are we ready yet???" I guess we'll have to just jump and see and this point. Nobody seems to have many pointers, or like being in the position of friendly experienced counselor or coach in this matter (though you have been the closest I have found so far- again, thank you).

I have decided, if we break up, we break up. Fuck it. Either it will bring us together more (if that is possible) or it will break us apart, and then we'll just have to set out on a new separate life (with another learning experience racked up).

 

You've talked about cultural differences and I found it interesting. I live in a country like yours and I have a lot of difficulties to explain myself in the forums. I think it's due to this cultural difference. Understandably, people have a problem to digest something when it's so different from their own reality.

Libertinage is something very common here. When I go on vacation where other people of the country I live in go, we talk openly about swinging and threesomes. Women talk to me about their husbands wanting sex and even ask if I'd join. We talk about sex with each other around the pool and that's just normal. How can one explain this culture in a forum like this?

Well, now to the swinging. I'm in an open marriage and we have sex with other people. I think it only works because we're very individualistic and we don't feel jealousy.

Like you, my parents are very "free" when it comes to sex. They used to swing and have tried everything under the sun, even things that are a taboo for me. But my mother is a jealous person and she has suffered through it a lot. She was one of these women who'll do everything the man wants, trying to keep him. So, she enjoyed the sex, but was dead jealous when it involved other women.

Because of that, I grew up to be a bit the opposite: I assume the guy will leave no matter what I do. So, I only do what I like, because the day he leaves, I won't feel as if I had sacrificed myself for nothing.

This is the main cause of my individualism. I don't wanna have any links with a man that are difficult to break, besides love. I've had no children, for instance. My mother told me many times she would leave if she had no children and told me not to have them. That has stayed in my mind, I suppose.

Well, it's a lot more complicated than that...

Anyway, I think the fact you're doubting so much is perhaps a sign you shouldn't do it. It seems for you that's a huge issue. And I totally get it, after reading the background.

Swinging is something very simple. It's just about sex. It's like going to play volleyball with other people. You play, you have your fun, then you go back to the rest of your life, till you feel like playing again.

In my experience, but that's just my experience, it makes a marriage more fun. It's like a new game, a new toy. Anything extra is good, if it's something else to look forward to.

Having sex with others doesn't mean you'll get some kind of addiction. Both myself and my husband are free to have sex outside the marriage. It's been several weeks, I've done it. He hasn't done it in months. But it's nice to do it when we feel like it. It's nice not to feel guilt, repression, etc.

If it was an issue, something to worry about, I wouldn't do it.

Good luck.

By the way, there are a lot of haters around here. Ignore them. It doesn't matter who you are, whatever you think or say. They hate, therefore they are. It's their way of life.

 

There isnt a single concept in all of psychology that is unexplainable, whose basic concepts cant be dumbed down for the average joe in the street, this is the case with most fields. Only in rare cases in things like Quantum Mechanics, some areas of Mathematics do there appear concepts that are truly hard to wrap your head around, are almost unexplainable.

With most fields, the nomenclature is uneccessarily complex and obfuscated on purpose to keep those that have persisted through undergrad and post grad levels and beyond; in their positions

Concepts in psychology consist primarily of stuff thats been rehashed over the last 100+ years, nothing terribly ground breaking in the last 30 years, some still say its too subjective anyway too be called a science.

It will still come down to everyone else, any disorder wouldnt be classed a disorder if everyone had it. Its only a disorder if far from the norm. Psychologists bound by a set of rules that are often counter-productive and it ultimately is a business, a business intertwined with hundreds of other types of industries

Your stepfather, your mother, or any single human in that profession across the globe; why cant they fix their own problems for starters, and why cant they answer even the most basic questions about human behaviour, why do woman suffer from depression 3 to 4 times more than men

A true break through, true genius only comes through once or a few times in a generation, which at the moment is 1 in 7 billion, the rest of us are just faking it

 

And then there is this:

Every frickin time, its always gotta be the husband always wants sex, oh women are treated like objects, such victims blah blah blah. When its usually he's too tired too often, would rather have a nap, couldnt be bothered fucking her anymore, cant really get it up anymore/is more interested in sticking things up his bum. Oh he's trying to push me into swinging, oh he's such a monster, even though I want it way more than him, and i'll leave him if he doesnt let me.....and after him hearing 30 years of "Why do you have to look at other woman, arent I enough?"

Name one female on the planet, or at least in the western world, that that describes. Everything the man wants? Including not complaining? Letting him even so much as talk to another female he's not related to without her present?

Especially if they dont agree with you, then there must be automatically something wrong with them, deep seeded emotional issues, dropped as a baby, prefer The Phantom Menace over Empire

 

Sociobiology. Lol! The number of times you throw spiffy words around idly is inversely proportional to how good in bed you are....I'll have you know.

 

There's a middle-aged couple up in NH, about 45 minutes from here, who are getting close to inviting me to join them for an intimate get-together. I've only done this sort of thing once in my life, but it was exciting. I'm inclined to accept.

 

Oh, you're giving me a headache! Yes, it is a complicated issue, like everything else in life! Nothing is risk-free, no guaranteed outcomes.

Aside from the medical risk, I think the most likely repercussions of an experiment are that you would feel very good about yourself and your ability to handle a new adventure, and your husband would be impressed with your open-minded approach.

I no longer seek out new partners, but I don't regret doing so in the past. I don't regret anything I tried once or twice, or a hundred times. It's part of being fully alive.

If you don't have honesty, you don't have anything; the rest of the relationship is mostly an illusion.

Some swingers prefer adjacent rooms, or completely separate rooms. I think most men are much better able than women to separate sex from love in their minds, but women can learn to do it. If you get with another man, focus on your own satisfaction! You deserve it!

None of this has anything to do with watching other couples and having them watch you, or with a limited threesome in which there is no penetration of the other woman. I don't see how you can rule out all of the options without trying any of them.

If your husband is a typical man, he will enjoy simply seeing other men get erections from seeing you naked. He doesn't want to be married to a loser, so he wants other men to want you, just like I want other women to want my husband.

That seems obvious to me.

No guarantees, no matter what you decide.

 

Okay, it seems that Swinging is not the correct translation of Libertinism.
Libertinism is not "wife swapping" with couples... the couple stays together, they do not separate, they do this together. It is supposed to (according to those who practice it here) bring the couple closer together through doing it together- choosing partners together, watching each other get pleasure in various ways.

Part of the "benefit" for the couple, I was told by some men who do this, is that there is a certain excitement in the jealousy they feel at seeing their wife have sex with another man.

Restraining that instinctual urge of competition creates an exciting tension... which can, on the other hand, be a huge problem for some men, rather than a good experience. For some it causes trauma that damages the relationship.

There's no doubt there, having people see either of us is not a problem, and I have not presented it as such. We have already had sex in front of others at a club.
My concern was the next step- of engaging with others.


What I have heard from other Libertines here is that it is something like having a baby- it can make or break the relationship.
If you have any problems in the relationship already, you should hold off, for it will magnify them, if you have deep struggles with issues of sexuality, it can also magnify them and cause problems.

Obviously, my parents relationship was not strong enough, obviously they had some ideas and issues concerning sexuality that made this a problem for them.
It might have been better for them to take some time to reflect deeply, and talk to some others in serious way before making such a decision.

We have children, we own a home, I am in a foreign country where I cannot support myself if single... a divorce would be sort of a big deal to me, so I tried to be responsible and think it over deeply first.

Sorry for the headache. I think I came to the wrong sort of place to get advice.

 

Swinging is whatever you personally want it to be revolving around other people.
Swinging can be same room sex with another couple no touching.
Swinging can be same room sex with another couple with partner swapping.
Swinging can be separated rooms, houses...
Swinging can be watching another couple have at it while personally just voyeuring.

Swinging is what you want it to be.

Personally for me swinging is the act of having an open minded sexual encounter with a couple looking for the same excitement. We swing with guidelines and boundaries.

 

Thanks. That sounds rational. I think I have dealt with so much of my past, there was a lot (I was also sexually molested at five, amongst this chaos, and that too caused some issues for me concerning sex, for a long time). But I have spent years and years going to shrinks, then a few years of being isolated and doing nothing but meditation in nature... none of that seems important anymore.
Just in a logical way, putting together a person with such a past, with such a practice, if it was someone else, I would counsel them to take time to really consider it deeply before doing it. So I tried to be responsible.

When I first came on here, I was alone for a few days, then my husband came back, and we are talking to each other about it- some of what was brought up to me here was good food for thought and discussion. We're going to a club this weekend (the same we have already enjoyed) and I am excited.
Now I am just defending myself against a lot of weird rants and insults that I cannot really understand.

 

Just a woman-
Wow, I wish you had shown up sooner! It sounds like you understand the context here, and how the past and the way we were raised plays a part.

In many ways, my husband and I are very independant. We have our own hobbies (he collects cars, has a jet fighter he works on, has written a couple of books), I have my horses, my training business, equitherapy, passion for hiking....
We both work, and between all this, we don't see each other much.

Our kids used to be what brought us together to do things, now they are out of the house. Some of our friends took up golf together- we hate golf. We like sex. We thought it could be a fun hobby we share together.

That may stupid, but that is where we are. I just didn't want to jump into a hobby that might stir up all kinds of feelings and damage our relationship.

Jesus, I cannot believe I have to keep defending that choice to be a responsible adult and examine myself before taking the decision to fuck other people.

Sorry, that has nothing to do with you. I think I have had enough. This site sucks, it was the first I clicked on at hazard and there too- I guess I should have examined and took time to analyze before jumping in.

 

Would that be the third wheel?

But seriously, I mean come on, most of this is make believe, once people have gotten used to previous tidbits and its getting a bit stale, then this:

Lets make up some more shocking stuff to get attention. So her mother and stepfather were psychologists but she's also been seeing shrinks for years. So what, the stepdad and his collegues psychoanalysed each others kids, then swapped


Fool me once.....

 

Some of that is best ignored.

 

A lot of people have no idea that there is more than one way to live a life. Anything that is foreign to them is wrong.

I wouldn't worry about defending your choices here or anywhere.

 

you apparently have a lot on your own plate. Yes my mom and srepfather were instrumental in getting me into hypnotherapy, psychotherapy, and later I did psychoanalysis as an adult. They were very aware of the trauma I had been through. I do not quite know why that seems so unbelievable to you. I don't know where you are from or your age... but in the late 60's and early 70's in southern Calif, this sort of stuff was pretty common. Pick up any book about the x generation, in Los Angeles and you will see there is nothing different about my past. Most of the hippies that got carried away with free love and drugs there ended up becoming shrinks when things got too Helter Skelter and they calmed down.

What the hell is your personal investment in my experience anyway, that you are afraid of losing?

 

I made no assertion that it was otherwise, I simply said that, my posts already being long, I prefer to use one word if I can instead of many. I also said if a reader does not know the meaning of the word, they can ask what I mean and I will explain. Or they can simply Google it.

Psychology and psychoanalysis are definately considered soft sciences. What is the relevance?

Exactly. To go further with that, any psychological mechanisms are only considered a problem if the person who has them considers them a problem, or if they cause the person to become a threat to the health and safety of themselves or others.

I made no mention of any disorder, however. I refered to an aspect of human psychology: a description of a way of thought and perception that is normal and common, and has no inherent "good" or "bad" nature to it.

I have not been exposed to this idea of "fixing". They were of a school of thought that there is no fixing, there is just everyday life you wade through at all times, and all people should have a shrink- mental digestion of ones internal world is an on going process. The same way a person needs to go to the bathroom everyday.
(partly why my interest went int he way of physical therapies instead of talk therapies, I do not believe this to be true and think it is more about ex-hippies making money off each other)

However, therapy does make on more aware of their particular psyche and more capable of making decisions which take those into account.