Support the troops?

The world doesn't envy you it hates you as in your corporate government and its policies and it's actions.

Cuba? what do you know about it?

Bad evil man was once a friend.

insurgents didn't exist before the war.

He had them now he was working to obtain them. lol

 

Thank you for speaking on behalf of "the world".

I should ask you that question.

Not really. And don't send me a link of Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam, try looking a little deeper than that. Try finding out who really armed Saddam and financed him.

No, instead of disorganised killing, it was highly organised. The kind most people are happy to ignore. Care to show us any posts you've made on Darfur or Congo lately?

"LOL". I'm sure the thought of Saddam building WMD's is absolutely hilarious for you, thousands of miles away in a safe country.

 

My philosophy is support the troops, but not the war.

 

I'm for the war and against the troops.

 

Does anyone even know what it means to support someone? It means you stand behind someone no matter what they do. You'll pat them on the back, tell them they are doing a great job. Tell them you ll be there for them no matter what... I live in a place where there is a great meth problem. Should I support the meth cooks simply because the legal system chooses to use cruel and unusual punishment against them? No, I can feel sorry for them, but that's all. I do feel sorry for the troops. ALL of them. I feel sorry for those who were ignorant enough to be duped into joining the military with promises of jobs, education, etc. because they didnt realize what they were really doing. I feel sorry for the troops who are gung ho about killing and maiming, because their lives are totally devoid of any morals or soul. I wouldn t want to have to be them when they come home to try to live a normal life again, and I would definately not want to be in their shoes at the pearly gates when they have to answer to WHATEVER. Yea, I can feel sorry for them, that's called compassion. But support what they are doing? No way in hell.
And, yep, if we were being attacked on our own soil by another country, and I'm talking about a REAL attack, not just a couple hours of staged demolition, I'd be one of the first ones to start organising a militia. But I fear that our greatest enemy is our own government...

"I hate that lives are lost in the effort to create a safer country for US. We could have turned our heads and looked the other way, after September 11, but I for one am glad that we had a proactive response."

This is exactly the thought process that is the problem. We are not safer now. We have even more enemies. We have become the laughingstock of the world, hell, maybe even the universe. It has been disproved ad nauseum that Saddam had nothing to do with 9-11. Sure, you'll always find someone who sees things differently, but I never worried about travelling to other countries until now. The hatred for americans is growing rapidly. Andthegeneral consensus everywhere I go is that the world is going straight to hell, because these people who are supposed to be the biggest role models of all can do no better than to blow each other up and tell lies about it like some horrible rotten children with much bigger and more destructive toys than they should even be allowed to have. Somehow this has the effect of making it more acceptable for the human race as a whole to be more evil, more violent, more manipulative than it used to be.

No, morals and honor definately ain't what they used to be...

 

Well, I visit 6 different news websites every day, mainstream AND alternative. I'm active in the anti war movement. I get out alot. And I'm not blind, deaf, or dumb....

...And do you realize that when you believe in a certain way, you tend to hang out with people who believe like you do? I'm more in the leader catagory than the follower catagory, myself...

At any rate, the reason I brought up the CIA mind control issue is to point out that people HAVE BEEN and ARE BEING completely mind manipulated as standard practice incertain situations. And I feel strongly that anyone who is just willing to simply throw their lives away to blow something up is either totally evil and insane, or being completely controlled by someone else to the point where they have no mind left to think with.

I hope you are lucky enough to keep your good health! I understand that the DU floating around in the atmosphere from the war has polluted the environment badly in Bahrain................

 

Well then I support the troops. Unlike many, I look the majority of young men and women who are risking their lives as we speak to fight for people who cannot or will not fight for themselves. I do not generalize an entire group by the sick actions of a very small percentage, I would rather generalize an entire group by the honorable actions of a very large percentage.

Thank you for finally acknowledging that. As discussed earlier in this thread, many people still tend to think that Saddam had no ties to terrorism. That is absolutely not true. We may disagree on some things but this point we definitely agree on.

 

Soldiers are ok ,Cops well that a entire difrent subject.

 

Even if it is themselves and anywhere from 10-100 innocent bystanders and the facade of a tea shop owned by a husband and father of four? Not only does a martyr in the cause of God enter paradise, but he does so automatically. His admission is guaranteed. The martyr also receives privileges otherwise unattainable. He does not need to pass through barzakh (purgatory) and gets to sit near the throne of God in dar al-shuhada (house of martyrs). Why would anyone want this?

 

Funny, I've always thought this statement was absurd myself, and I found it insulting the time I first saw it, but for slightly different reasons than Earthmother has suggested.

Lots of interesting points here, forgive me if I repeat some of them, I haven't read them all...

First of all, I agree that the war is wrong, and Bush and co should be tried for war crimes, I've believed that since the war began.

I myself served in the military for eight years (four active, four reserve), but things were different then. I separated around the time Bush senior started the first Gulf war (and I was highly opposed to that one as well). That was when I realized that an administration had the power to start a war as a means to acquire the resources of a country for the financial gain of a few oil companies, while using national security and the defense of democracy as a facade, very scary.

A lot of military personell join, not because of "patriotism" or a sense of duty, but because of financial need, education assistance, or to escape something. In my case it was a dysfunctional childhood I needed to escape, in an economy in which even menial jobs were non-existent, so I didn't have a whole lot of choices (but I would never have joined if things were like they are now). For a friend of mine it was to escape prison (the judge offered him the "choice"). The point is, many of those people are not there because they wanna be.

The purpose of boot camp is to strip you of your identity, and reform you into a drone who can be manipulated to respond to orders without question. It's pretty effective, though I guess it depends on how intelligent, well educated, and open-minded one is, I managed to play the game and placate my "superiors", but I reverted to my old ways of thinking soon after boot camp. It did help me in some ways, though, I acquired self discipline, saw the world, learned a trade, and paid for college, but it was the hypocracy I couldn't accept, so I got out...

Unfortunately, a lot of these people become psychotic by their experiences, I can only imagine what it must be like to be over there and see what they see. And for the better part of the 3000 troops killed over there, there are tens of thousands more who are permanently crippled, mentally and physically, for life. Not to mention it's really difficult to assimilate one's self back into the civilian sector from military life, particularly if you have a physical or mental disability.

...so when I see these banners in peoples yards, I ask myself

what the fuck are you doing to support our troops?

 

"It has been disproved ad nauseum that Saddam had nothing to do with 9-11."

OOPS, my bad! I should have said "It has been disproved ad nauseum that Saddam had anything to do with 9-11."

 

Sorry, but in our belief system, life is a God given gift, and to kill yourself in order to kill others is pretty much a great big "FUCK YOU" to God. "Thou shalt not kill" is pretty good advice even if you are not religious. To die in service of what is GOOD and RIGHT is being a martyr. And what is good and right is not a matter of opinion. And killing indiscriminately AIN'T a good thing. All those idiots who think they are going to be with God because they died killing others for some ridiculous selfish cause... They all thought they would end up in paradise? Well, maybe anyone as foolish as that would think that hell WAS paradise...

 

who are you to say that they arent martyrs of "good and right"
If their god told them to do that, and they do it, they are rewarded right?

Granted, it has been perverted and the "terrorists" are doing it for political lies, but the heart of it is for them to die fighting the enemy of their god, which in this case they are told that americans are it.

You are quick to judge for such an "earth mother" you sound more like a good ole fashioned baptist mother who call people different from you names and automatically instill your own puritanical views on their culture and religion.

Look at the world through bigger eyes, your god and view arent necessarily right.

 

'gotta agree with you there (and I'm not religious). I'd be surprised if the Korran doesn't contain the same statement in some form or other...

...yet Bush and Muslim leaders use their perverse interpretations of these religious texts to justify the killing, makes no sense to me...

 

Its an enigma how so many different cultures and religions have such a different take on GOD and what they think GOD wants them to do. There seems to be only two answers to this. Either NO ONE really has a clue what GOD wants, and its pretty much a guessing game with all the conflicting theories, or there actually is far more than one GOD. And if that's the case, then the GODS obviously can't agree on anything any better than we can. Which makes them no better than we are. Either way, it certainly doesn't seem like the best reason to go around blowing up yourself and every one else, for something that no body is really even sure about and can't agree on. How anybody can rationalize that as being "right" is beyond me.

Hey, I dont give a rats ass what anybody believes spiritually speaking, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. But obviously someone is gettin' hurt. Mixing GOD and WAR seems ludicrus to me, but what do I know? My BIGGEST concern is for THOUSANDS of people, whose lives are hell, and will most likely never be the same again due to some big push and shove game between right wing power mongers and religious fanatics. Yup. ANYBODY, and I don't care who they are, who is gonna die for their religion, and take a bunch of others with them who have no choice in the matter, could probably be considered fanatics.

Every one who lives on this earth is in it TOGETHER, whether they like it or not. Fight all you like, it's a dead end street. Fuck fighting! If we don't get some common ground pretty soon we won't have any ground to fight over. This us versus them crap is CRAP. And ANYBODY who feeds into it is part of the problem.
Why cant we MOVE the HELL ON, and stop destroying the Earth and each other, stop acting like a bunch of animals or juvenile delinquents or "mentally challenged", and start making this a BETTER place for EVERYONE? One love, one heart... Before it's too late. LOTS bigger stuff and lots more important than worrying about one "ole fashioned baptist mother" disagreeing with one, well, who really knows what?... Terrorist sympathiser? Woops, being too judgemental? Nope, just making a point.

 

all that said, i am not a "terrorist sympathiser", but I dont judge people for their religious actions. I dont think its cool to go killing for your god, but if thats what their god says, then they do what they do to be in his grace.

My gods, fortunatly, do not require my martyrdom or me killing innocents, I wouldnt worship them if they did. But my virtue is not anothers fault, I hold to my honor system, and leave them to theirs.

 

Actually, Heron, I was talking about my disagreement with the wackyiraky guy. Whoever he might actually be. Didn't wantcha to think I was callin' you names... Just pointing out that he was talkin' an awful lot like the folks that get labled "terrorist sympathisers" (I hate that term, gets bantered around too much), and pointing out that nobody knows who he really might be.... I'm gettin' a certain vibe from him and I'm callin' him out, and he's obliging. I got no arguement with you, brother. I just think its good to know who yer dealin' with, and I think we're starting to get to the meat of the matter.

 

If you want to know something, by all means ask. Do not beat around the Bush. I mean bush.

 

Didn't think I was beatin' round the bush, I thought I was bein' rather straightforeward. Anyhoo, Supposing someone HAD an ulterior motive. Do ya think for a minute that if someone just asked somebody point blank if they were, for example, a terrorist or a government plant that they'd actually admit to it? Better to draw out somebodies true colors...

I see yer now from Amman. Used to be Bahrain. Didja move? Couldn't take havin' Michael Jackson for a neighbor?

So, do you seriously believe all that stuff about dying a martyr and going to paradise??? And if ya do, then who ya plannin' on blowin' up? (There's a dood in the white house who could probably stand to go kaboom.....)
:H

 

In just two sentences you have advocated murder and treason. Whatever Bush's faults does he really deserve to die and who are we to play God?