Support the troops?

Oh Matt, I'm not crazy. I just read and watched all this stuff then watched the same footage that say CNN still has up. You can see this stuff. That's what did it what these people were saying they could back it up. They had the footage I mean they had everything. Like I said, I am not willing to say the government did this to us. However, I am willing to say the government IS lying to us about it. And really what's new? When is the government not lying to us?

 

Hit a raw nerve? Sorry you feel so hateful towards this idea. Its making you flip out, bringing abortion into it, telling me I dont have any self respect, calling me a narrow minded fool... Take a deep breath for a minute and maybe your sanity will come back.

This IS a protest forum. And as such, I am protesting war. I protest war every day somehow, somewhere. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Whatever it takes to make a point. Some people need to be shocked out of their complacency. At least Im not standing on street corners screaming "fuck the Army!" or some such. (yet)

And, the concept of it actually being legal and acceptable to put people in front of firing squads, well, sorry, but that IS barbaric. Have we come no further than the dark ages? Perhaps you personally have not killed any babys, but MANY,MANY HAVE been killed. Babies, small children, civilians, women, elderly, MANY THOUSANDS actully, at the hands of the military of the "civilized" world. So, this is not a crazy statement, but an accurate one.

Crazy or not, maybe too simplistic for those who would like to believe in all the complex nature of the existing wars, but if I woke up one morning and suddenly found myself as president, I would throw away my suit and tie, my proper manner, my all powerful macho attitude, and go on a world trip, stoping at EVERY country just to hang with the other leaders, not in serious meetings, but as a social visit, just to get to know these guys, try to find some common ground (like what we are all standing on!), maybe share a little in partaking of their various drugs of culture and choice. Set an environment of friendship among human beings as much as humanly possible.

I would create a PEACE department, as opposed to the already too weighty departments of war and homeland (in)security. Instead of being a seperatist as far as my country goes, I would try to take as many ideas and concepts that seem to work from other counrtries and begin working them into our own policies.

I would put tremendous pressure on the entire public school system to create MANDATORY human relations classes from KINDERGARTEN on.

I would attempt to work out a deal with the leader of Mexico to simply open the border. In BOTH directions. I think that there would not be so many Mexicans coming into the country "illegally" if we helped make Mexico as appealing as they seem to think the US is.

I would put extreme energy into getting world support for making war illegal and unacceptable. Whatever that took to accomplish. I would try to find positive ways to effect changes in all instances. (hey, maybe we could even re write the Bible again to fit our agenda, just like they did before. That is, after all, how it AND the Koran ended up condoning so much violence in the first place... Well, I just think its a shame that wars are fought over some stupid words in a book written, re written and edited by imperfect humans who were looking for an excuse for violence...)

And then I would probably be assasinated.


P.s.
Thanks so much for the "compliments" on the picture...

 

I was not being serious... just all your eggs were in one basket..it sounded pretty crazy...like you just had a revelation or something...

What CNN chooses to have its website is its business..

How can you claim the 'goverment is lieing' when it is not a govermental site...

Have you ever thought that you just have not seen the evidence to the contary yet ?... You said that you had not heard of a 'inside job' before comeing here..maybe you just need to investigate the claims you believe to be true.. Everyday it seems i look at things that shed a whole new light on something.. maybe a little light needs shedding on you

Not that i am 100% correct... i hasten to add..

Who ?....

Ofcourse they will be able to 'back it up' ..thats what i mean by a 'grain of truth'..

Name me a few lies as you see it ?..

 

Ok, This is my thought so far after reading and watching and listen. Ok, How could a 757 with the wing span of 125 feet make a 16 foot hole in the side of the pentagon? Don't you think the hole would have been bigger and not almost perfectly circular? Ok That leads me to the next question. How is it that when all the fireman who are going in to the WTC's saying the fire is containable with simple water that the building just blow up? They went straight down like a planned detonation. We have all seen certain buildings being blown up to make way for a new shopping center or whatever else. They always fall staright down floor by floor just like the WTC's. I don't understand this part: The government has said that the planes on fire were hot enough to cause the steel to melt hence causing the buildings to go down. Ok, now I saw a picture in the past not recently of a woman standing looking down into the crack. The firemen were on their way up to rescue her. This was before the buildings blew up. If that steel was so hot to cause the buildings to go down then why wasn't she burned alive? How were firemen getting up and down and around the buildings? Steel melts at an extremely high tempature. So if the offical story is that then it is kind of hard for me to buy. I mean my god I am no rocket scientist, but even I realize certain things. Steel gets hot at an extremely high degree the picture of that girl was taken right before the tower went down. She was just standing there looking down at the firemen coming up. Her skin should have melted off her bones if the steel was that hot.

I just can't figure out how the buildings went down so uniformedly. People, rescue workers, reporters all said the same things. I heard the explosion....It picked me up and threw me through the air. How can one plane (one plane per building) cause an entire building to blow up like that with enough force to throw people through the air?

Like I said, I am not willing to admit the government did this, however I do think they have lied about parts of it. People somehow knew they were coming down. Take for instance, I was reading about the firemen going up in whichever building went down first. When they came down even before the buildings blew the emergentcy workers were gone. The ones that the workers inside communicated with. How did they know to leave? Chance of luck? Maybe, but that sure was a lot of people gone to all have the same ephifany at the same time. Why haven't I ever heard about those people who always investigate plane crashes the ones set up by the airlines ever investigating it? Wouldn't it make sense they would be there to investigate?

It's just the small things like that, that have caused me to question "the offical story". Before I came to this forum I had never even heard of 9-11 in a different light. I always took what the government said as sole truth regarding this matter. I thought it was a horrible thing that happened and it is. But not one single time as any mainstream media agentcy reported on the questions so many seem to have. I know after going through all that mess I have questions now. Things don't make sense to me over certain aspects.

Go back a few pages and you'll see the the links. Some of them are in far left field, however, some of them really do pose valid questions. I did have a revalation I realized that not all the facts the government say make total sense. I mean my god they have some of the smartest people working for them it would seem to me they could explain what happened to the point it would add up. That's all I am saying. I am not going out on a limb to say the government did this. I am saying until I know more I am going with they lied about certain aspects of it.

That's my story and Imma stickin' to it =)) LOL

 

didnt say beleive!just consider! as i said in an erlier post i dont know what the truth is!

 

ok i did not! read this whole post or any after i would like to chime in on a few points/statements that you made(if i knew how to seperate i would) yes this is the real world the peeps in power will lie cheat and steal koll and commit mass murder for their own agenda !! do you realy believe that our elected officials tell the truth? if you do i will direct you again to tvnewslies.org one more time when you get there click on bush lies it will give you a cronilogical order of lies addmitted by the same in differant statments from on place or news cast to another that is cross refranced to statements that were made to 911 commission remember the 911 commission was not for the porpuse of finding fault or crimminal activity! evidedence has been systematicly whith held from the amarican public. that is not in the realm of international security!!!why? meetings that were held that wre soppossed to be public are now deemd off limits WHY? why were the vidios of the attack on the pentagon suppressd? when the amarican pepole ask for the things that that will not hurt our natinal security are refused what do you think that porpuse would be to withhold it? gringo i challeng you to look at some of the links i gave erlier in ernest and then defend the current regiem. (but dont give me sht about my spelling)i actually agree with you on certain thing that we might disscuss later or you can read all my past posts to figure who or what i am but i will tell you this i beleive that we as a whole (i do beleive in we as humanbeings) are being sold a ration of shit and the puppetmasters are laughing all the way to the bank!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!may peace ungulf your heart so that all those around you can spread it far and wide!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Our Officals do not tell the truth. History should be the point of reference over this. How many times through the past has the government been caught? Now, I really must wonder how many times they haven't been caught. Then I wonder hmmmm, What didn't we catch them over and how big of a deal was it?

No flmkpr, you didn't say I had to believe it. I just agree that some points about it don't add up. I was just telling you what my thoughts were. You know the FBI has subpenoed googles records right? They said they are fighting this new war on porn (as if they don't have more important things to be going after) so they forced google to turn over all their search records. Apparently google traces your IP when you do a search. The FBI has been on this for I want to say around six months. Of course I have to question that too. I mean really porn is a form of freedom of speech so what is their motive behind taking google's search records? Porn is not illegal so why would they want to know who has been looking at it? That sounds ludricious to me.

 

I also wanted to tell you flmkpr, I don't know what the truth is either, but I have come to the conclusion they are lying about certain things. But then again.... what's new? When are they not lying to us? I rest my case

 

Did they find bodies ? i think they did.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/collapse2.html

NIST concluded the towers collapsed because the impact of the plane crashes severed and damaged support columns and dislodged fireproofing insulation from the steel floor trusses and support columns, which allowed the fires to weaken them to the point where they bowed, buckled, and failed. It recently stated, in the WTC Towers Report (p. 12) on its Web site, that it found “no corroborating evidence for alternative hypotheses suggesting that the WTC towers were brought down by controlled demolition… .”

Facts: The U.S. National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) conducted an extremely thorough, three-year investigation into what caused the WTC twin towers to collapse, as explained on NIST’s WTC Web site. Some 200 staff reviewed tens of thousands of documents, interviewed more than one thousand people, reviewed 7,000 segments of video footage and 7,000 photographs, analyzed 236 pieces of steel from the wreckage, performed laboratory tests and sophisticated computer simulations of the sequence of events that occurred from the moment the aircraft struck the towers until they collapsed. Its conclusion is that the twin towers collapsed because the impact of the planes severed and damaged support columns and dislodged fireproofing insulation coating the steel floor trusses and steel columns, which meant that the subsequent fire, which reached 1000 degrees Celsius, weakened the floors and columns to the point where they bowed and buckled, causing the towers to collapse.

NIST’s Draft Summary Report stated (pp. 171-172):


http://usinfo.state.gov/media/Archive/2005/Sep/16-241966.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_Commission

Source ? .. i have not heard about ''It picked me up and threw me through the air.''

To me it's timeing..when did people say certain things.. did this person say it when the planes hit ? when the towers fell ?..If when the towers fell..then the turbulence caused would have been akin to a hurricane.
Is it merely over indulgence on the witness part ?.

I don't know how many times i have heard people say ''witnessess say it sounded like explosions'' .... It is so flimsy it is unreal.. Imagine if you are standing near a building that has been hit by a plane.. the noises comeing from that building i agree sound like explosions.. but it is merely a 'gut reaction'.. It does not mean it WAS explosives that caused these explosions.. Gas pipes 'exploded' does that mean sombody lined the gas mains with explosives ? no. Scared and frightened you are hardly going to quote something from Oscar Wild or a great piece of prose on 'what do large bangs sound like'.. You will just say ''it sounded like explosions'' come to think about it what ELSE could you say ?.. ''it sounded like what i imagine rocks sound like falling onto the moons of jupiter'' or ''the terminal forced release of pressure built up during the occlusive phase of a stop consonant'' erm no i don't think any normal person will say such a thing.

Ask the same people with hindsight if they believe it WAS explosives and it will come down to their point of view.. You never hear anybody say ''well i thought i heard what sounded like explosions but no i think it was erm quite a large bang''

http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2276287&postcount=29

Lied ?... AGAIN have you read the ''official explanation'' to comapre ?.. not the theorists version of events.

TIMEING AGAIN... it's when thes events occured..do you know at what point the firemen may have abandoned the building ?.. It's the finer points that need sorting out.. Trust me its all pretty much ''out there'' .. you just have to look...and deciede wich truth you wish to believe.

From my reccolection 'valiant' moves almost foolhardy moves where made by the firebrigade..It has to be said in a brave attempt to save lives..but there comes a point when it is wise to move out..this i am sure was discussed on a ongoing basis...and at some point they did leave.. I think they only advanced warning ws when one of the buildings collapsed..

You have several buildings ..several events running independantly of each other..and brave souls trying to join them together in their own version of events.

I can't claim to know what when on second by second... i once did believe it might be a ''inside job'' then i read what people proclaim on sites like http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/ [i think you may like that site -if you have not heard of it before] and i just find it slightly erm JFKesque.. i just don't trust the alternate view anymore..

Well if you post your source..it might be easier to find out what happened to them..as this is news to me ...

Could it be you have not been looking ?.

Many of the questions were answered in the 9/11 commission.. those people rightly or wrongly are not satisfied.

They wish for it to be 'the goverment'.. even if the only charge is 'complicity' imho.

Well i had a revelation the alternate view does not make total sense ... and it does not add up. I'll go out on a limb and say most of the claims are ridiculous.

That's my story and Imma stickin' to it

http://www.cosmicpenguin.com/911/bradm/911index/

knock yourself out..

 

heavy haerted yes they lie not anything new but the lies this time are so apparent contraditory that its beoynd beleif!!!! thats what gets me! first they say black is white then the next month they say no we did not know white is blue! i think you get my drift !!

 

matthew i wish i knew how to this thing of taking parts of a post quoting and commenting but i dont! let me ask you have you ever watched a controled demolition of a skyscraper? i have! i know that a building that is bent twisted weakend will not fall the way the towers did! i said it on 9/11 the day it happend as i was watching it on tv. you say you have experts that say otherwise? who do they work for? were do they get thier funding? there has yet to be an impartial investigation into the matter! if there is nothing to hide why are vidios being hid? why are documents and transcripts that by LAW are public being withheld? so i ask you where is your proof that it was not done or allowd to happen by pepole within this administration? remember some of the supposed highjackers are alive and well! i truly wish i could belive what i am told by my elected officcials but they lie have addmitted that they lied by their own contadictory statments! and im suppossed to beleive them now?

 

Well not only that flmkpr, but if the steel was 1000 C then how were people going up and down through the towers and not having their flesh melt off their bones? I think but I'm no scientist that 1000C runs somewhere along the lines of 3000 to 5000 degrees.

I am in the same boat as you flmkpr. I would like to believe our officials, but that really isn't reality. How do you keep believing some one who has contiuniously lied? If it were your girlfriend or wife or husband or boyfriend you would kick their ass to the curb. I wonder why we as American's keep putting up with this type of government. BTW, I wanted to thank you for leading me to the sites you did. I have also had my husband start reading and going through this stuff as well. He was a lot like me and had never heard anything but the official story. Even he said he thought the towers came down too uniformedly. He said he had always wondered, but he never heard anybody say anything so he thought he was in the wrong. Anyways, for that I want to say thanks

I guess I am just a silly girl then Matt. I just don't think somethings add up. If that makes my reasoning is ridiculious then I guess it is. No harm no foul, right? It's only American to question.

BTW, I wanted to ask anybody who knows how do I do the whole quoting deal? You guys seem to be experts at this. When I tried to do it I guess I did something wrong. Anyways, if maybe y'all could help me out please and thank you

 

You guys obviously can quote as a whole post...just by pressing 'Quote'..

If you want to dissect the post then ypu just highlight the portion you want..and then press the quote icon :the speach bubble at the end of the second row below the smillies [if that makes sense]..

If you want to be really clever and add the name just look how the format is when you quote somebody.. QUOTE=matthew] blah blah [/QUOTE obviously with ] encapsulating the [ QUOTE ]..

I hope that helps...

oh press the 'preview post' to save any embarrasment..and to see if it works properly.. sometimes you will doub..oh you'll figure it out..if i can help further..and not confuse the hell out of you all.. just ask.

You'll all get the hang of it..its easy really.

Yes i have.. i can't say i analysed it when it happened.. but looking at it after the fact .. you can notice one leans over slighty then the weight [of the floors above the impact] force it to drop.. i'm no expert.. i'm just going on what i have seen from many many construction experts....

I picked the two examples : goverment and the other one ..because they were obviously the official line and the other was ''well put together''... and quite informative.. i had not noticed who the 'expert' was.. www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/0112/Eagar/Eagar-0112.html . i had not noticed he now works for the goverment... though if you like it would be easy to find the same points..made by many other sources.. with no connection to goverment.

The 'independant enquirey' was open to public scrutiny:
http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/ncst/sept2005_meeting/SunderNCSTAC(1)0912052%20final.pdf

It was independant... and impartial.. imho
The public scrutiny sessions gave everybody the opportunity to have a say..the only thing that [in the end] could not be given was ''we are sorry''.. obviously the goverments reponse was NEVER going to be enough.
'Public enquiries' seem to go over the facts time and time again..
To give the familys what they wish is not always going be possible..

Many of the familys have 'moved on' and many obviously wish for something further to occur..
With so many familys it is not supriseing not everybody is going to be satisfied..and as horrid as this is..possibly some just wish to blame the goverment regardless..thats just the way it is.

Which ones ??

Just putting together this post i have come across swathes of information.. i have not read before.. from those scrutinising this issue longer/better than myself.. i'm still looking into the whole thing [even now].

At this point in time i'm still learning.. my earlier comment of [paraphrasing] ''i know it all'' clearly is me being sarcasticaly egomanical.

Imho the investigation was pretty big and encompassing ... most of the theories that i had trouble with where explained 'officialy' and by others looking at it - obviously based on information in the public domain - and experiance..
It just comes down to weighing it all up .. and on balance [in my case] choosing a particular turn of events - and those responsible..

I'm never going to convince anybody am i ? .. so you just have to make up your own mind..

I have just tried to decipher all the varied info from a varied amount of sources and attempted to have a coherent thought about it all.. not sure if i have succeeded ?.

The list given a few days after [by the FBI] was what the 'theorists' have kept hold of..ignoring the possibility [and reality] that some of the the identities were stolen.

admissision:

''FBI Director Robert Mueller acknowledged on Thursday that the identity of several of the suicide hijackers is in doubt.''

as it progressed .. it became more clearer obviously.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm

If i ignored 'reality' and did not aknowledge the proggression of the enquirey.. i could easily say ''some turned up alive'' .. wich is true.. Notice the date Sunday, 23 September .. not even two weeks into the investigation.. ofcourse the whole case and those involved is not going to be perfectly chrystalined... Like the 'conspiracy theorist'.. i know how thye operate from reading some posts after London 7/7.. some had it all wrapped up within a hour.. the fact thet they turned out to be wrong .. has not stopped them believing their truth even now.. i suspect that is how some are with something as monumental as 9/11. Not saying you have done this.. i hope you realise i not talking about yourself.. i dunno what you thought at the time...just my own 'theory'.



as it progressed .. it became more clearer obviously.

if you think ''we think this'' and then they say ''having investigated further we think this''

Is a lie.. you have too higher standard.. if they say one thing and then say another and then go back.. not following a coherent line.. well thats fair enough..

Imho i see the media jumbling up the facts and the official line.. to further the story.. giving speculation and hearsay far to much credance.. so when the 'official story' comes out later..everybody is sceptical..because they have heard so much in the mean time..

Those that survived i believe where 'protected' by the stairwell..so may not have come in direct contact with hot metal.. Also the fires and heat where rageing in a particular segment of the building..and sadly i don't think those people survived.

Not in the slightest..just like i was a few years ago..not informed on the other possibilities..thats all.
If i ever seem patronising let me know..

Like i said.. i have heard it all.. over the last few years..
So have gone through my own thoughts on the matter lots of times.. .. trust me my reasoning at the begining was pretty rubbish.. now it is about at the amateur level..

It's American to blame the goverment

As sad as it is .. i think i have commented/looked into on this subject.. about 3 times a week for several hours at a time.. i have seen some things that are 'crazy'.. most normal people don't have the time to do that i suppose..*giggle*...I'd probably be married by now, if i had switched off from this subject..hehehehehe.

No problem..well erm a a few problems i.e time spent within this thread trying to make what i say , make some sense....but thats what it's all about i suppose.

 

Hey look it works hehehehehe

 

Hope it helps..

Ok..

[Now i'm showing off...] Good look with it..

 

Almost..

You'll get by with a little help from your friends..

 

Ok Matt, I found a website you may be interested in looking at. I just found this site this afternoon. It isn't slanted to the right or left the guy just puts out pictures and questions how certain things could be. Anyways, take a look and let me know

http://www.freedomfiles.org/war/pentagon.htm

 

How about now? Hey look I did it I was typing in the wrong spot You guys better watch out now

 

Thats a good one Ms H Hearted ... I was a little disimayed when i noticed Rense as a source and david Ike [i like him but like this he is a bit polemic]..but i continued regardless... Thankyou.
[it was a bit biased though]..

One [of many] issues is it should be updated ...

Ok fair enough ...


Oh you have some space on your site..mmm how should it be filled .. oh i know a bit of crap [imho].

The point is there is enough evidence here proving that at 757 could not and did not hit the Pentagon. There is also a mountain of evidence pointing to the white wash and cover-ups concerning the WTC crash as well. The these poor souls who gave their lives in a Jihad against America were trained in and protected by the U.S. Military and Bush, they were mind controlled patsies used by the Military Industrial complex to put on a show for them. The fact that no Arabs were listed on the Manifest and exactly 20% occupancy on all 4 crashed flights is also an interesting aspect. If you look at the pictures of the dogs doing searches at the Pentagon for body parts, they all have blanked faces, like there is nothing there to find. The fact that there is no wing damage at all on the Pentagon wall should be enough for most people to realize that something is very wrong.


Thats frustrating...


One day i'm gonna knock together my own site

Here is one for you [I think we have both enough to chew on now ]

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/911_pentagon_757_plane_evidence.html


Complicity *sigh* last hope for goverment involvement
http://www.oilempire.us/pentagon.html

Did we both type the same thing into google ???

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=pentagon+plane+hit&spell=1

 

Yes, I believe we did What can I say? Great minds think alike.