Support the troops?

Contracts that were awarded before they knew the war would even take place, thats the key.

Ya, the coraporations are making billions off the war. Nothing new about that, I'm afraid. It's just too bad thats ALL people see about the war.

 

What else is there to see?

Peace and love

 

it's going to be a very costly "war" too, when all's been said and done. We're all gonna have to flip the bill.


death and taxes.

 

What else is there to see? That in spite of the fact that profit is being made off the war, more important and long-lasting effects of the war will take shape, like new ways of thinking in Iraq that will spread throughout the world and counter the terrorist jihad? (Which again I reiterate is VERY real!)

 

Perhaps the invasion and occupation of Iraq might cause more radical thinking and further the jihad effort? Any radical could look at the situation in Iraq, the extreme poverty, destruction, violence, and collapse of the infrastructure and use that as ammo against America. That radical could rightly claim that Iraq's infrastructure was more stable during Saddam's regime. I believe we are creating radicals; there are many people who have dead relatives due to the occupation and have nothing to live for.

Remember the Nazis? They rose to power after the collapse of Germany's infrastructure and economy after WWI. The Soviets came to power after the repression by the Tsar. Extremists come to power after an extreme event, such as an occupation.

peace and love

 

ok justwow, now you just sound like bush.

 

But you see TIME is the big factor here. How can we possibly know what the next generation of Iraqis will think once their educated about the true nature of the west, and themselves? (i.e. US does not = the great satan, ect.) This war is about freeing them from the slavery of radical thought!

 

No offense to anyone here, but can we discuss the issues at hand? Otherwise this is going to turn into "you dumb neocons!" and "you stupid liberals!" This doesn't solve anything. Everyone is entitled to their opinions.

I like Bertrand Russell's quote: "I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."

Peace and love

 

How do we know that it won't? The next generation of Iraqis are watching their brothers, sisters, mothers, and fathers be killed. Looking back on history, extremists are formed in this enviroment, not people who are tolerant.

Peace and love

 

But would it not be worth it to die to make sure both sides of an issue are seen?
(Like freeing the Iraqis from radical teachings! We would be teaching them that Islam should NOT be based on war!)

The problem with 30's Germany is that it was left out to dry, so to speak. We actually WANT Iraq not to hate us, and to help make itself better. No one cared about Germany or what direction it was headed.

 

What on God's green earth does the war that the US is now waging (and people are dying in) have anything to do with freeing Iraqis from the ideology that Islam is based on war? I've mentioned many times that my Iraqi Christian friends are afraid to go back to Iraq because their churches, businesses and homes are constantly under attack by Muslim extremists, and this was not the case at all under Saddam-in fact, there are fewer Christians in the government there now than before the war-I keep bringing up these points but Justwow just ignores them.

 

Who is the easiest power to blame for Iraqis? The Americans. For the average Iraqi, life was much better under Saddam. Until Iraq's infrastructure is rebuilt and the country becomes prosperous, America will always be the root of their blame. I can't blame them for their anger. If another country invaded the US because they believe Bush is an "iminant threat" I wouldn't be singing their praises when the country's economy crashes, violence becomes a daily event, etc even though I don't like Bush.

Peace and love

 

Saddam was a secular nationalist. He believed in nationalism over religion, although he was a paranoid and attacked anyone he felt was a threat to him. I agree Charise.

peace and love

 

Wow you guys have been busy since this morning! Justwow, I hardly know what to say. I'm speechless. And appalled. You make no sense to me at all...... Can't relate to it. I'm certain we speak the same language, but are you sure you're from this planet?

Here's some more reading material of interest.....http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/040406Z.shtml *How Massacres Become the Norm

Think this answers some questions.

I guess we all know who the people in denial are, and I also know that there is NOTHING that can be said to change their minds, because they cannot hear. Their eyes are closed, their opinions are etched in stone, their tape recorded messages repeat over and over and are turned up too loud. They suffer from the same dis-ease that the Bush administration does.

I read the other day that one in four people will experience some form of mental illness in their lifetimes. Not very good odds, hey?

Oh, yea, here is another one.... http://www.infowars.com/articles/iraq/former_us_general_rumsfeld_quit_over_iraq.htm
Doesn't it make you feel special that people are risking life and limb for idiots who have no clue what they are doing? Thats just plain criminal.

I found myself waiting for a ride today, near a table set up by a veteran (Viet Nam). He was selling buttons, flags, etc. for donations, or at least trying to. Being my usual social self, I decided to talk to him for a spell. He started making small talk, and had me read a poem he wrote. When I told him I was a pacifist, he just turned on! He said the world would be a much better place if we were all pacifists. He felt that in Nam, he at least accomplished SOMETHING positive (he had to rationalize it somehow), but he was just RABID about Iraq. Of course he wanted to support the troops, because he felt they were sold out, lied to, used and abused, and most of them would never be right again. He HATES Bush with a passion, and feels that he is a war criminal, but that he will never pay because of who he is. He said that the troops are bought with bribes, and once they sign on the dotted line, that they become nothing, the politicians dont give a damn about them. He compared Bush to a nazi, he talked about the corrupt CIA. He spoke of 911 being an inside job. He felt that elections were a fraud. I just stood there and nodded, mostly...

Everywhere I go, no matter who I talk to, almost everybody believes the same way. It is hard to find anyone who believes in the war.

There was a peace demonstration in our small town a couple weeks ago. There was a sign, honk if you want peace. They were there all afternoon. Horns honked almost continuously all day. ONE person got angry and screamed out their window that HE was a VETERAN, and HIS son was in Iraq, and HE supported the war. One person. All day.

Just a thought. If we were REALLY attacked by another country, like we attacked Iraq, then there would be 2 big problems. One of which is the troops from the other country, obviously. The other would be our own government. Suddenly we would have 2 enemies in our faces, up close and personal. The police, the military, FEMA, the president, would ALL be screwing with us, telling us what to do, hearding us here and there. What would YOU do? Now you have to take back your country from ALL the crazies in power. So, I suppose that they would label me and my friends insurgents.

All you folks arguing so hard for your troops and your freedom and your revenge over 911. You sound SO learned, so many details, so much knowledge! So sure of yourselves. It is really a shame, you know not what you do. I suppose you can be pitied for that. There is really so much more to know. This so called knowledge is very limited. Shallow. You really have no idea. People who are all so full of facts and figures have no room for what ifs and possibilities. But there is a whole world of things happening outside of your scope of knowledge. We really know very little about the workings of the world politic. Why would they want us to know? We just get in the way with our differing opinions. You can plainly see that these guys can do anything at all that they want, and get away with it. They flaunt it. We protest, we sign petitions, and we get laughed at, and accused of being ,well, less than nice folks. We never get what we really want. So just why do you think that they would let us be privy to their secret ambitions? We are easier to control while they plot their course of manipulation for humanity if we are all arguing amongst ourselves over nonsense.

Oh, yea, and what I meant by "hit the woods", quite a few pages back, was NOT run and hide. Ya know how the Indians fought? Real sneaky like. You're no help to any one if youre dead.

 

The real difference between Iraq and Germany was that at the time Germany had strong links with the UK and relations were actually quite good until they invaded Poland.

 

how do we know he is to blame?
umm maybe because he said it himself!!!
http://www.ucgstp.org/bureau/wnp/wnp0044/binladen.html

 

its not paranoia if they are really out to get you....
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/worldview/story/0,11581,845725,00.html

 

might not have been a country to invade the US this time but a radical grouop that is protected by the muslim communitity. sine a few pages ago i asked people to go back and read my post and answer the my questions and nobody has ill just assume you like name calling more than proving your point.

constantly saying a country has not attacked us isnt proving your point it just makes you sound like you have had your head under a rock for the past few years.

the threat is real and the attack was real. the demands that the radical muslims made upon us were real.

so what would you have us do?
cave into their demands?
you think this goverment is so bad, what goverment in the world is better?
all have done good and bad things. no person or country is perfect. but atleast here we can still openly have debates liek this be it online in this fourm or down on the steps of city hall if we wanted to. without the fear of having our tounges cut out.

truthfully though all it sounds like is most people here are just so full of hate twards this goverment,bush or america in general i dont know why we even bother pretending its a discussion. its just people off on rants. and some make sence others dont.

 

well you think bush stared the invasion of privacy.

see how much information you can find out about
:agate path enhanced opps:
mid 80s started mid to late 80 and is probably still ongoing but maybe differnt name by now. not sure cause im not in anymore.

 

Religions:​

Muslim 97% (Shi'a 60%-65%, Sunni 32%-37%), Christian or other 3%