Support the troops?

Amen to all of that. And as for this business that 'the troops are protecting our freedoms'-What freedoms? The government in this country has done despicable things to me, my family, and people that I know that could never have happened in many other countries. If I started on that I would never stop, basic civil and constitutional liberties that were deliberately trampelled upon just so the justice system can be run like a profit-making business, just the way the Republicans want it to run. I could go on about it for hours, but don't want to air too much of my personal business here-maybe I should one day, because when the government persecutes people, it's everybody's business. Protect my FREEDOMS? What a crock of shit.

 

exactly. too bad some idiots and grunts are so brainwashed and deluded, they actually think that our military has something to do with our civil liberties.

as far as I'm concerned, troops should come back, and get real jobs to help bail us out of this debt.

I have about 5 generations of family that served in the military, do I give a fuck? No. I don't think its something to be proud of. That type of pride is best left to the grunts who surrendered their minds in boot camp just to fulfill questionable agendas; mine is devoted to research, a far more noble cause.

 

i have read all the posts and this is how it made me feel:

for peaceful people there sure is a large amount of hate towards each other non-acceptance of personal beliefs, name calling, saddness, harsh judgements, etc.. love- spread it as far as you can. even if you don't support the troops love them as people and don't fling insults at other brothers and sisters who share this place with us. words hurts people too not just weapons, the soul and heart and mind are very fragile parts of the human. its right to believe what you believe it makes you who you are its right to do as you believe because it makes you true to who you are. its also right to be saddened by the horrible things in the world and do what we can to change them, but in doing that we should not be hurting others as we go because if we do we will again be undermining love, peace and acceptance. so in short no one has to support the troops and you can support the troops either way don't tear down other people and respect thier rights to oppinion. that is how i live my life and wish others did then how would war get started?

 

see comments like this is why many here think their voice is not heard. soon as you start name calling you prove others thoughts.
as for not caring about your familes past service. again we can tell that by your posts and comments.seems only thing you care about is what is best for you.
with your self centered thinking and lack of respect for anything you dont agree with . why dont you leave the country?

if you dislike the policies and country so much just leave its easy to do.

many in this thread are so mad about something but what really?
just that they do not agree with war? or dislike bush so much? or is that they hate this country so much?

i say if you dont like goverments policies vote your mind, then ofcourse youll come back and say my vote dont count. if you really belive that. then who is running the country? if votes didnt count the first bush never would have lost to clinton and clinton would never have been reelected.

as for myself many of things bush does i do not agree with. i belive in personal freedoms. but as far as the war goes. im all for it. they (islam) attacked us and id rather see them die on their streets than us being killed on our streets over here. and thats not a self centered view its for myself and my family and others.

people who think the soliders are brain washed are so dilluded with hate they cant see that maybe somepeople belive in a greater goal than just complaing about something and not acting on it.

dont like the war fine you dont have too, but then vote people into office that share your ideas, cause just downing the country and its policies while we have men and women overseas is only putting them in greater danger.

and causing even more deaths.

and like it or not the ARMY does protect freedoms, over there that poor guy that wanted to convert from islam was sentenced to death. thank goodness they let him leave instead of killing him. things like that dont happen in the US but if we had no constatution or bill of rights, and a military to back it up. we wouldnt be here talking now about this. why? cuase the goverment wouldnt let us.

and to the person that called me stupid for being proud of my familes service to the country. why dont you come over here and say that to my face? your a coward. dont like me calling you names? should have started it.

wanna argue a point fine but to get personal is like being attacked and should be dealt with

 

Us versus them. The posts against the war, the military, etc. seem to include many different ideas and opinions. Well thought out answers prevail. The others, they all have very slightly different versions of the same speech. Patent answers heard so many times that it sounds like a recording. They sound just like politicians. Just an observation...

 

OR MAYBE SOME POLITITIANS ARE SAYING THINGS THAT MANY AMERICANS LIKE MYSELF AGREE WITH.

they got elected somehow you know.

but like i have said many times i dont totally agree with the goverment. and even if bush was able to be elected again i would not be able to support him for a few reasons but the war is not one of them. things i disagree like the natnl id card. im not a fan of big brother at all . i think the goverments only job should be the duties granted them in the constatution.

wellfare, social securitity and so on should never have been a federal goverment duty. instead totally up to the states.

just like anyform of natnl heathcare is wrong.

any person up for election that tries to take away a persons right to own weapons is another thing that i feel strongly about.i think every person in the country should have the right to carry a weapon anyplace any time they choose. just think how few would have died on sept 11th if all the passengers of the plane had been armed. probably all on the plane when bullets went flying depresserized the cabin or what ever other bad things could have happened. but the towers would probably still be there.

how many banks would get robbed now adays if criminals knew that every customer and employee of a bank was armed?



now i bet you dont hear many polititians saying those things but its the way i feel on those subjects. and some are pretty radical ideas and probably sound insane to many that read it here in these fourms. but some of the peace love mumbo jumbo i read here sounds insane to me.

just seems so many liberals think they are the only people whos thoughts count. and to hell with any that disagree with them.

whereas myself. if you dont like war, then dont join the military. but dont call those of us who wish to serve our country brainwashed fools for doing so.

if peace love and tolerence was your true goal, now that the war has already started instead of trying to get the troops out before the job is complete (which will result in a return trip) you would wish it to be complete as fast as possible and support the troops and goverment in acomplishing the mission ASAP. but without any deadline in time but rather a deadline in the form of a goal.

get their goverment up and running and self suffeciant. then we leave no untill then.
be it tomorrow or next year or 3 years from now.

so if you people belive all soliders are brain washed im never gonna change your mind no amount of arguing will ever sway your opinion on the war. so unless a good argumt arises here ill do like most polititans do to people as closed mined as you all. and that is ignore you untill you can make a real argument.

 

actually im not closed minded as you might catorigiuse me as i would like you to give answers to your opinion that would hold up to scrutiny i my self dont think it would be a verey good thing to abandon the pepole that we said we were going to help like we have done numeres tims before. but please show me how things are better and how we are spreading "democracy" when we denounce outher demacraticly elected pepole in outher parts of the world and yes some suppossedly voices even call for assassinations of demacraticly elected officials!our mission there had nothing to do with democracy! contrary to popular beleife it had very little to do whith short term oil it has more to do with long term goals of yes OIL and millitary bases in strateigic places we are freinds whith the saudies now but for how mutch longer?? the fact is the us will never remove from iraq completly period! never had any intention of it!!!!!

 

The government enabled and probably planned 9/11 , defending the planes wasnt an issue...."Islam" didnt attack America. America's neocon leaders did for their own peronal financial gain and to further their globalist agenda. They dont give two shits what Americans do and dont agree upon regarding what they are doing to our lost republic and that includes congress and all of its lackeys in law enforcement and other gov. agencies. They are very good at turning countryman against countryman and religion against religion. Americans just need to get off their highhorse and realize that its okay for people to be different than them. So some sects of Islam have oppressive practices, so do despots running nations that our policymakers fully support. Anyway, sorry for the rant.

Its sort of scary to think about how comments made on sites like this could be held against us if Bush takes power like Hitler did....we will all become enemy combatants or something, considered social undesireables....oh well I'm willing to die for my beliefs, but not without a fight.

 

the answer is simple and you gave came up with it all on your own.

strateigic places

but we have use of some nice bases in quatar. so the US already had a presence over there.
and your right about saudi. truthfully i think we will have to take them out soon aswell. but so long as those fools keep flooding into iraq to fight from saudi and other countries over there we dont need too.

kinda like killing two birds with one stone. take out sadam and draw out all the bad elements to that part of the desert instead of picking fights with the entire middle east. makes sence to me.
but if truth be know i think myself and flmkpr booth missed the last few joint chief briefings on the war and its goals. and every since i changed my email address i stop getting those daily whitehouse memos LOL

as for oil i could care less about that . this country could produce enough to supply us if we didnt have the green tree hugging lineral pushing to stop drilling all over the place. so we got to get it someplace. and eventually we will leave iraq. maynot be as soon as you like but we will leave. sure maybe a presence or a base like germany and japan. but thats not considered occupation. or under US control or under military control.

as for the election over there. well sadmas idea of an election was to only let those that were voting for him vote. its just totally impossible to an entire population to vote 99% for one person unless he the only choice. if those results were correct then why isnt the entire counrty of iraq in the same situation as a few areas are?
most of iraq is getting along great builing starting over and peacable.
if those elections were correct why were the people pulling down the statue of sadam soon after we invaded?

and what about assanations? hitler was elected by the germans. he actually did run a very effecient goverment but the people were not free. and think of the lives that would have been saved if some world power had taken him out as soon as he invaded poland.

probably never would have been WWII. or atleast not then and there.
millions of lives could have been saved if only somebody would have acted.

and i totally agree that if the US says they are gonna help people they should back them up and not cow down to liberal complaints.
the 1st bush got so many iraqs killed by not backing them up like they said they were gonna do.
and kenedy got a bunch of cubans killed because he didnt back them up when he said he would.
and even nixon got vietnamese killed by pulling out of vietnam.

but all those examples are reasons why we need to support our troops and goverment once commited to action.
like the policy or not supporting it once its started will end it sooner and save lives.

 

If it had to do with oil why in the hell am I paying so much for gas?!!!

 

remove these (if Bush takes power like Hitler did) ( 8 ) words and ill totally agree with you.

its not just Bush taking away rights and personal liberties. and all this talk about a Natnl Id card is even kinda scary. both parties want it but for different reasons. and i dont think either party is being truthfull in what they are telling us.
i really really hate the idea of that even though we already have one in a sence with the social securitity card. its just every citizens serial number to log and track us by. bad enough we got that god knows what the new one will do.

but thats a whole other subject.

 

that's the kind of dim-witted logic that leaves scientists dumbfounded with Republican policy. utterly inane.

why don't you just say, "we have our boys over there to ensure the Empire stays in a position of power"; money, that's all it's about...the struggle for money and power, nothing less.

you can't fool free-thinking american citizens who are aware of what's really at stake, no matter how brain-washed you are; the "if you don't like it, why don't you leave" complacency doesn't change the fact.

 

and gringo iraq was a secular state did not attack us and goerge w bush was not elected demorcraticly forget the numbers but like 30,000 black voters were removed from the tally for being convicted felons when they had no record at all and the supreme court put bush in office for matters of expeidiancy

 

and i do like my trees also whithout a healthy enviroment wed be in a bigger peck of shit!!

 

May I provide an example.

 

Wacki, why dont you get off it? Taking stuff out of context and spinning the issue around in a circle is what people do when they cant win an argument, so they just confuse the issue with childish nonsense, just like a politician would.

gringo_in_caribbean0, This tree hugging liberal happens to know that there are so many alternatives to oil that could be promoted, and along with this create new jobs, that statements like yours become just a ridiculous excuse.

I get SO frustrated with the patent "if you dont like it, then vote" statement. JUST SUPPOSE that the elections ARE rigged? JUST SUPPOSE that no matter who you vote for, that only republicans win. Believe it or not, it IS possible. Leave voting out of it. Most polls state that the current administration only has about a 33% approval rating, and that 83% believe that 911 was an inside job. What the heck happened to all those supposed voters who elected these guys???????????????????????????????????????? If they are THAT wishy washy, then do you REALLY want them deciding who to put in charge??? I would venture to say that if there was an election and NO ONE VOTED, that the repubicans would still win by thousands of votes....... But it doesnt HAVE to be Republicans, just whoever will go along with the agenda at the time. Have you not EVER even noticed how the media decides who will win before the "election" ever takes place???

I do feel sorry for those who do not have the eyes to see what is going on. Or maybe its the "ignorance is bliss" thing..... I suppose it might temporarily make for a happier existance if we could just all close our eyes and believe everything we are told. Thank GOD that not everybody does.

I will say that I am pretty surprised at some of the posts here. This is HIP FORUMS after all, and it seems like some individuals ended up here by accident. This is sort of like if I were to walk into a bar and start preaching about the evils of drinking. Of course this is coming from just another stupid pacifist hippy tree hugger, and probably on drugs too, so....................Lets go blow up some more people, guys, its FUN!!! A little torture, anybody? Maybe we need more laws. And ya better go out and buy some surveillance cameras so you can keep an eye on your terrorist pacifist treehugging hippy neighbors.Ya know, you can get em REAL cheap now from deer hunter supply catalogs, they run on batteries so ya can put em ANYWHERE..........

 

MONSTER by Steppenwolf, 1969. Some of us knew.....

Once the religious, the hunted and weary
Chasing the promise of freedom and hope
Came to this country to build a new vision
Far from the reaches of kingdom and pope
Like good Christians, some would burn the witches
Later some got slaves to gather riches

But still from near and far to seek America
They came by thousands to court the wild
And she just patiently smiled and bore a child
To be their spirit and guiding light

And once the ties with the crown had been broken
Westward in saddle and wagon it went
And 'til the railroad linked ocean to ocean
Many the lives which had come to an end
While we bullied, stole and bought ourselves a homeland
We began the slaughter of the red man

But still from near and far to seek America
They came by thousands to court the wild
And she just patiently smiled and bore a child
To be their spirit and guiding light

The blue and grey they stomped it
They kicked it just like a dog
And when the war over
They stuffed it just like a hog

And though the past has it's share of injustice
Kind was the spirit in many a way
But it's protectors and friends have been sleeping
Now it's a monster and will not obey

The spirit was freedom and justice
And it's keepers seem generous and kind
It's leaders were supposed to serve the country
But now they won't pay it no mind
'Cause the people grew fat and got lazy
And now their vote is a meaningless joke
They babble about law and order
But it's all just an echo of what they've been told
Yeah, there's a monster on the loose
It's got our heads into a noose
And it just sits there watchin'

Our cities have turned into jungles
And corruption is stranglin' the land
The police force is watching the people
And the people just can't understand
We don't know how to mind our own business
'Cause the whole worlds got to be just like us
Now we are fighting a war over there
No matter who's the winner
We can't pay the cost
'Cause there's a monster on the loose
It's got our heads into a noose
And it just sits there watching

America where are you now?
Don't you care about your sons and daughters?
Don't you know we need you now
We can't fight alone against the monster!

 

You know I have come to the conclusion that if certain people are so fired up about all the "liberties" we are losing why aren't they on Capitol Hill protesting or lobbying? What's the worst that could happen? You'd get arrested? Nothing is ever going to change if all we do is sit around and run our mouthes. You have to take action to get things to change. All it takes is the courage of one person i.e. Rosa Parks, Martin Luther King Jr., etc. I could go on and on, they didn't just sit around and run their mouths, they got up and did something. If you are so bothered by losing your freedoms then go do something about it. Sitting here complaining the same things over and over have gotten these certain people nowhere if it had they wouldn't still be here crying the same old song. If you can't protest the things you think are wrong then why not donate to a worthy cause who does believe in the things you do as well?

The truth is, I think some people just like to complain. How hard is it really to stand up for a cause you believe in? How hard is it to support causes that believe the same things you do?

The truth is the government could completely careless about anyone of us. We don't serve their cause, we are no use to them. If the government doesn't serve your purpose actively seek to change it. That's the great thing about being in America you can actively try to change things you don't like.

I am not saying that people shouldn't put their opinion out there. I come here to listen to what real people are saying not what the news feeds me. I don't just take what the news, government, etc says for gospel. All I am saying is, if you don't like this or that go do something to fix it.

 

I'm more concerned about what we're doing to the delicate balance of the ecostructure on this planet than what other humans are doing in the big drama play of politics (I think Nader would hear me on this one); sure, voicing your opinion while holding a protest sign is fundamentally pro-active, but we're in the 21st-Century, where you can electronically sign a petition.

I already have petitioned state legislators earlier this year, as an ACS member, to ask for more funding towards green-chemistry reseach, a VERY unselfish cause. (it's not even in my field of research)

 

I think actually flmkpr That Al Gore conceded which allowed Mr. Bush to be put into office. If he had held out the duration of proceedings we may have had a differrent president. Isn't it funny that the third Mr. Bush is the governer of the state that was in question? Coincidence? I highly doubt it.

This is all I have to say about Iraq for right now. How many Americans did Saddam really hurt? He wasn't even bothering us. Besides that he is old as dirt the bastard is going to croak sometime soon. How much trouble could he really caused by being left in power? I know he was going to blow us up with WMD, oh wait HE DIDN'T HAVE ANY!!!!

This is what I have to say about Mr. Bush for right now. Contrary to popular belief Congress did not sancation the war in Iraq. Bush went in and had troops on the ground in Saudi and Kuwait before Congress even knew what hit them. Only after Bush intiated "Shock N Awe" did Congress sanction him being there.

Now riddle me this: President Clinton got impeached for having "ORAL SEX" with a lady who wasn't his wife (ohhhhh big shock there), but Bush can go and illegally invade a country for no good reason and he hasn't been impeached. He has been threatened with numerous investigations, but nothing has ever become of it. What's wrong with that picture?