Support the troops... why?

70% of all bombing were tactical strikes. Every bomb dropped in Baghdad was a tactical weapon.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/iraq/1998/981219-tech.htm

There were certainly enough Mosques and Schools in Fallujah for insurgents to hide in.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/10/12/161002.shtml

Like I said.. American soldiers can't tell the difference.

http://www.foreignpolicy.org.tr/documents/full.doc
http://www.humanhorizons.ndirect.co.uk/pages/trans3.htm

Emphal campaign where over 180,000 people were gassed in '96 I believe.

What happened was horrible, but thats the risk you take when you're a reporter in a dangerous area.

It was a casualty, no more or less heinous then when an Iraqi civillian or an american or Iraqi troop dies.

Sweet evil jesus!!!

Are you fucking serious? You'd compare intentional targeting of civilians to a tactic?

I said it was largely about oil, but its part of a larger scheme of transforming a region which is plauged by brutal violence and theocracy into a thriving republic.

It certainly ideal, but If it can be pulled off, it would be great.

The alternative is for it to stay as it is now. The Middle East isn't in great shape.

Iraq is electing a government there... they could start petitioning to get the troops to leave.

We're killing the ones who chose to disagree by blowing everything up... too god damned bad. Violence isn't a tactic.

But most sensible Iraqis don't want the US out tommorow because they're terrified by insurgents who wish to destroy the country.

Iraq is getting pissed, but its not at us... Iraq is becoming very frustrated with these 'tactics'.

http://www.keralanext.com/news/indexread.asp?id=137873

 

This just in - We're all fucked wether we like it or not. Do something about it.

 

Most of the troops enlist with the thought that they're "fighting for freedom"...It isn't really their fault that their commander and cheif is an idiot. And even if we could blame the troops for the war (and we can't) we definitely can't blame the parents, spouses and children waiting back at home. It's not their fault for sure.

 

I say everyone argues more about this topic to see who proves who wrong. Is argueing continuesly going to change what is happening; is argueing going to make you guys see eachothers point...no probably not. Everyone is pretty set in their thoughts/opinions on this topic. Deal with it and move on.

 

Yes, lets not debate anything... thats healthy.

I hope you don't vote.

 

I didn't say not debate anything. It just seems like a few people are getting themselves worked up over this topic. That's all.

 

I get what you're saying then. But theres nothing wrong with feeling passionatly about something as long as you take time and weigh both sides of the debate.

 

Very true.

 

Becuase THEY don't wanna BE there anymore than YOU DO! I mean no offense. But, MANY of them are away from thier Family's, The lifestyle THEY choose. WHY are they there? So people like US and them, can live that lifestyle without being afraid some ass hole will try to blow it up!
I don't AGREE with the Official reason they are there.
And WHY hasn't the US acheived that reason? We're the "World Police"!

 

US isn't the world police, they are a global terrorist and go against international law because they have the most bombs and the most money so if they really want to theres not much anyone can do about it. They only invade countries where there is a financial gain to themselves, not that UK is much better, we too are guilty of many of the same atrocities both past and present. We do the odd postive gesture here and there as the US does, but it is a little dwarfed by the day by day waste of money and lives that takes place for no reason other than having the power and arrogance to use that power... we don't lead by example, so how can you expect anyone else to give up neuclear weapons and a like when we are still pouring money in on developing new and more advanced ones.... A world treatity to remove all weapons of mass destruction from all countries is what is required, when was the last time we had inspectors from the middle east inspecting American weapons sites? It has to be a global movement or nothing at all.

 

Screw international law- we don't get to vote on it.

In any case, the world expects the US to pay for everything.

Until the rest of the world grows up, the US has little choice but to act as world police.

Personally, I wish we'd cut off ALL forms of foreign aid. Let the rest of the world go to hell anyway it wants.

 

Obviously not.

So by your logic, nobody should protest this war unless they've fought in it themselves?
It's called research and critical thinking. Perhaps if you got off your couch and turned off FOXnews, and read news from companies that aren't in the back pocket of the U.S. govt, you wouldn't be the typical ignorant American hillbilly which gives the rest of us Americans a bad name.
www.indymedia.org
www.fromthewilderness.com
www.csmonitor.com
www.cnn.com
www.freespeech.org
www.foxnews.com
www.reuters.com
www.rense.com

That's where I go for all my research, with various other sites if I'm reading up something specific and want to check it's sources.
Stop eating the shit that's spoonfed to you.

So you don't even believe we live in a democracy anymore? If our government does something that we the people do not agree with, we should just shut up and keep quiet? You're nothing more than the typical hypocritical American -- you want freedom and democracy in other countries, but want your own America to be a fascist state. You're so patriotic!

You just proved my "hypocritical typical American" comment.
You are a hypocrite... how come you want to force a democracy overseas, but you believe that anybody who doesn't agree with your small-minded view of how the world should work should simply keep quiet? That's not democratic or Free at all... sounds more like Stalin's Russia than anything.

 

son of a bitch... i had replied, and for some reason i was logged out and everything was gone...

I saw a report on Democracy Now last week about the U.S. using WW1 and WW2 era bombs, but I can't find anything on the internet to back that up..
But the site you listed is a little fishy.. that was written in 1998, 7 years ago... and even today, U.S. soldiers are using WW2 and Vietnam era armor and weapons because they aren't being supplied up-to-date armor and weapons... the most common sense answer would be that the U.S. army has no armor or weapons that have been made recently... they spend more on bombs, but logistically speaking, wouldn't it appear that they also have a small number (or none at all) of bombs made recently and would be using bombs from past wars?

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/10/12/161002.shtml

Thanks.

Oddly enough, both him and the Briton that was killed last year are regarded as "liberall reporters"... coincidence? possibly..

What I was saying that they have to use guerrila-like tactics if they want to defeat the coalition.. if they were to attack the U.S. head on, they'd be crushed.
But after readingthe last article you posted, I apologize for obviously uneducated statement

There's evil dictatorships all around the world... why did the U.S. pick Iraq? For oil... you can't go after one and leave the rest hanging, if you really do care about the people in those countries.

And you can say this because you've spoken with most of the sensible Iraqis or read reports coming from most of them?

I had replied to this, and then read the the link...
but this was also in there:
"The real resistance should only target the occupiers, and no normal person should consider dozens of dead people to be some kind of collateral damage while you are trying to kill somebody else," cleric Ahmed Abdul-Ghafur told worshippers Friday at Um al-Qura, the main Sunni mosque in Baghdad. "Everybody should speak out against such inhumane acts."
I agree with all of that... it appears that most sensible Iraqis also want the coalition forces out, and that resistance groups should target only the coalition. Which is common sense.. ..

 

I am aware of all this... I'm still not going to support murder.

Nobody was threatening to blow up our country and change our way of life at the time of invasion. "Saddam having plans to attack us" was found to be untrue.
The U.S. government is the one who is taking away our civil liberties, and our way of life. We weren't attacked by anybody but them...

By your logic, we should all take up arms against the U.S. government. It happened before, against Britian.. as far as I know, those laws still apply today.

 

The rest of the world's people aren't nearly as sheeply as America. They know when they're being lied to... why should the U.S. have any say about international law except to follow it when they played the rest of the world's countries for fools? The U.S. should be down on its knees, asking for forgiveness.

Once again, there's that fascist speak that you seem to love. How can you want democracy in the middle east yet you want America to rule the world with an iron fist? How can you want a democratically-elected president in Iraq when you want one fascist dictator to rule the entire world?
You're nothing but an illogical, ignorant hypocrite.

But yet you support the U.S. pushing it's way of life in the middle east? How in the fuck does that make any sense at all?

 

haha yea, I didn't know that bombing and taking over other countries qualified as foreign aid

quote:, when the rest of the world grows up,

a statement like that is inherently flawed...everyone else has to grow up but us?! What a douche...its fine to recognize that not everything the US does is bad, but this is pure propaganda

 

Thats happened to me before too.

Yeah, it was conservative commentary, but that was the first thing google pulled up, I first heard that on BBC anyway, I'd find a better article, but I feel kinda lazy.

The numbers are right anyway, 70% of all bombs and every bomb dropped in Baghdad, the technology used in this war was pretty superb.

My article was 2k4... or you mean the report you read?

Militarys expensive... we already spend the most money on ours... we can't have everything wer want.

We we're using some conventional bombs, and they were mostly used for cluster bombing desert military outposts.

For urban combat we use GPS bombs as to minimize civillian causalties.

They were both European reporters, and most European reporters happen to be liberal.

I stress European because their communication about movements with our military might not be so precise, and casualties might be more likely.

I'm not trying to justify what happened to them at all, but it makes sense why those tragedys might be more likely.

That makes sense, and your obviously rooting for the insurgents, but purposefully killing civillians to make us revolted with the war might be tactical, but its very tactless.

There's no excuse for it.

Happens to the best of us.

I agree, furthermore, I feel we should definatly intervene in Dafur (the Sudan) and The Congo.

Syria and the Ivory Coast are other despotic hellholes.

We can't do everything at once, but we can definatly do a lot more.

Neither of us have... but its pretty common knowledge that Most of the Shiite and Kurdish population of Iraq were much happier for the toppling of Saddams regime then the rulling Sunni minority.

Well certainly not everone agrees with our presence there, especially not the Sunni population, but Al Sistani is doing good things to bridge ethnic gaps in Iraq too.

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/opinion/11199225.htm

After two years of violence, and eventual steady military incursion even Fallujah is doing better.

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/world/11195066.htm

Iraqs parliment is converging, and making important strides in getting food, water, and energy to the public.

http://www.plenglish.com/article.asp?ID=%7BE7B631DA-F3C4-4864-AB89-BC6390FABF94%7D&language=EN

Iraqi's are making political decisions.

http://www.newkerala.com/news-daily/news/features.php?action=fullnews&id=88758

And certainly all Iraqis aren't demanding our immediate withdrawl.

http://nyjtimes.com/Stories/2005/2YearsInIraq-WhatDoIraqisThink.htm

 

Why was fox news in there again?

And rense.com? You gotta be kidding me... the guy claims alzheimer's disease is mad cow.


And then theres this little number...
http://www.rense.com/general63/etindia.htm

 

THat's still 30% of WW1 & 2 era bombs... it makes you wonder where all that military spending money is actually going too... I'll cover this further on.

This link: http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/iraq/1998/981219-tech.htm
Published December 19, 1998.

We do spend the most money... we spend more money on the military than on anything else... hundreds of billions, right? You'd think with that kind of money there'd be nothing but the most hightech of smart bombs, and there'd be more than enough armor for each soldiers... I think the number's inflated, or most of its being deposited in offshore bank accounts.

Over 600 civilians died during the raid on Fallujah...
http://www.iraqbodycount.net/resources/falluja/

It does make sense... I guess it's not even all that bad, since those are two of the few I've heard about a lot more could've been killed..

I'm rooting for the insurgents who are fighting the invaders, not the ones who are killing their own people. If I was an Iraqi citizen, I would've been one of the first to take up arms and protect my country from imperialism.

America wasn't invaded.. if it was, I'd be quick to do the same for us.

Yes, and I also think we should stand up to Israel.. just because they are allies of the U.S., doesn't mean they should be allowed to kill for more territory.

I've seen quite a few videos of Iraqis being interviewed on streets and schools and shops... they appeared to be random interviews, and everyone who was questioned said something along the lines of "If the coalition wasn't here, there'd be a lot less Iraqi civilians being killed by all sides"... after reading some more, I don't just how valid those videos were (shown on FSTV documentaries, and segments on Democracy Now!) or if that's even true at all... but things couldn't get much worse with troops over there now so...

Thanks for the links.

 

lmao... sometime last year, my mom told me to stop watching only liberal news shows, and to read from all points of views, so I started going everywhere... I've always been a critical thinker, so I know what shit to ignore and what to take seriously. :H

Hahaha! I don't read there much, and I certainly have never seen that before...