stupid people with fur coats...

edit: deleted due to your post not even being worth a sarcastic remark. it was THAT dumb.

 

i know it. im surprised people arent protesting in front of restrooms!

 

Think of the number of species that would go extinct if we no longer raised em for food.

I don't see cows making a go of it on their own...

 

well i do...in the fields by my home. there are cows that live there that arent being raised for food....and they are living peacefuly as it should be.

so a horribly tortureous life is better than none at all? alrighty then.

ok now.....unless i feel a compulsion to respond again i really have stuff to do now at work.

 

double post

 

RE: ell i do...in the fields by my home. there are cows that live there that arent being raised for food....and they are living peacefuly as it should be.

They're wild cows?

 

and again you missed my point in all of these posts if you really are worried about harming animals and possibly doing your part to ease the problem of overpopulation on the planet just kill yourself. cause untill then no matter what you or eat in some way it can be causing a animal lose of life.

or stop being part of the problem yourself and help the wild animals by raising them in captivitity.

cause your grand plan isnt a plan at all its a dream that will never come true. i dont know maybe we should all go out into the wild and kill off all the animals that eat meat. that way we ease the pain and discomfort of a rabbit being torn to pieces by to hungry wolves.

like i been saying elle anything you or i do will cause the lose of life or "property" to something. im sure the fly that lands on your food thinks that is his he found it.
the only way you will ever make your point is to have a solution that actually will work.
cause your idea wont work.
you cant be selective in what your willing to kill just cause its got fur or scales or an exoskelton or what ever. and i belive that.

i would never go and hunt down a person to kill for fun nor do i hunt and kill animals for fun. but if a person was harming me or my family id kill them to prevent it. and i have and continue eating cows.

and again dont get me wrong i love COWS. they taste great.

i think thats enough joking around but anyways i just hope you can see after reading all of this that you cannot do anything that isnt harming some type of animal.

and that its better to use captive raised creatures instead of depleating the wild populations.

and remember the orange groves when you drink your next orange juice pineapple watermeleon grapefruit or what ever. cause by buying them you are supporting the death of animals. and when furs are made illeagle those poor racoons and such trapped in the groves will be killed for nothing other than being there. but if left as it is now the meat and hides are put to use...

all in all people are animals also and if its ok for a another animal to kill to benefit its self why is it wrong for the human animal to kill for the same reason?? explain that one and ill shut up about this..

 

well the animals in the wild kill to survive. survival comes before morality. i dont need to eat animals to survive...a veggie diet will keep me alive just fine. there are some people in the world that dont have that luxury and they must hunt to live.....you gotta do what you gotta do to survive.

once again, as ive said more than once...its not a quest for purity and obviously just being alive will kill/displace some animals. its about reducing the amount of suffering and doing what i can with what ive been given. if i couldnt afford to buy food or didnt have the means to grow my own (which i dont right now) then i would have to resort to hunting like some others. so you can stop reminding me that by being alive i am displacing animals because as any vegan knows, thats a fact we cant get around, other than killing ourselves (as you so kindly suggested i do) but since survival takes the highest priority and thankfully i can do it without eating animals or wearing their hydes.

GOTH...no the freakin' cows werent wild cows have been domesticated unfortunatley and to revert back to their wild state would take some time.....
but as domestic as those cows were they were still able to live a peaceful life in the fields. they are well taken care of...i know the "owner". infact thats why farm sanctuarys exist. dogs are now domestic and in america we dont eat them...but they show no signs of extinction. infact the shelters or horribly overcrowded.

 

and i am so happy for you that you can live without meat but personally i only eat patatos and beans other than that its meat. so you can be my balance and just keep on eating those veggies and ill keep eating the cows.


"cows have been domesticated unfortunatley and to revert back to their wild state would take some time.....
but as domestic as those cows were they were still able to live a peaceful life in the fields. they are well taken care of...i know the "owner". infact thats why farm sanctuarys exist. dogs are now domestic and in america we dont eat them...but they show no signs of extinction. "

glad to see that farm can keep them in captivitity and well cared for. since you flamed me before saying its impossible.

wow maybe you do see the light. your point about the dogs being pleniful is my point exactly. let them be owned and of value. and those shelters that are over crowded is a shame. its cause so many people dont spend a few bucks getting their pets spayed or nutered. that is a shame forsure. but if the strays were left running the streets like they do down here in Puerto rico it would be worse. packs of mutts tearing garbage killing livestock. and skinny and covered in mange really would be doing them a favor to just shoot them. cause if a shelter in the states pick up some of the wild dogs down here they would just put them down. mean wild and to many med problems...

 

cows living peacefully in a sanctuary or on someones farm are far from being enslaved (in other words...used for our benefit) they are being taken care of.

the distinction between farm animals in sancuarys and farm animals raised for food is quite clear....need i further explain???

fyi...i dont "own" my dogs. I care for them. i dont have them because i want to have "pets" or anything of the sort. dogs are domestic animals now and as it stands there are millions in need of a loving home and i will provide that for as many as i have room and money for.....currently two. i was making the point that even if people stopped eating cows that wouldnt mean their ultimate demise as a species as humans can continue to breed them if we so choose.

and i didnt know that disagreeing with someone meant flaming....wow you did teach me something afterall!

 

call it what you like but if one of your pet dogs get out and bite the people next door overs kid your the one going to court not the dog. he would be picked up for rabie testing.

your local goverment have any type of regestration for your pet dog?

if those dogs you care for go outside and decide not to come back would you look for them? or just leave them running lose to be picked up and put into a shelter?

call it care giving if you like but you own them no getting around the fact.

 

OF COURSE leaglly i "own" them....think i dont know that? and of course i take full responsibility for them legally and otherwise, but I do not consider myself an "owner" in the sense that they are my "pets" or any of that other bullshit. im their caregiver....even if the legal system chooses to call it an "owner" or whatever else....i am their caregiver and their friend. there's "owner" in the legal sense but i was referring to the ethical sense. i own no one. but like a mother takes the full responsibility for her toddler....so it is with my animals.

 

wow i started a huge convo here. sry bout that..hehe

 

"i am their caregiver and their friend. there's "owner" in the legal sense but i was referring to the ethical sense. i own no one."

ahh right there is the root of your views "" i own no one "" you consider your dogs as equals to yourself?
you consider animals as equals to all other people?
you take in homeless dogs?
do you take in homeless people?

i mean sence you brought ethics into the conversation, how if you consider animals equal can you show a preference and choose which you want to help and which youll ignore?
i wonder how you feel about horses? you think its terrible for them to be used also i bet.
here on the commune we have many animals two of which are horses. one is only ridden and just recently started breaking her just turned 2. the other is used for ridding and pulling equipment like wagons and such. in the morning i usually hook the older horse up to the wagon and take the farms kids to school. right now with the hoiliday vacation there is no school and every morning she starts whinning and making alll kinds of fus to get some attention. she really seems to enjoy getting brushed in the mornings then suited up in the harness and other rigging and prancing around with the wagon behind her. but sounds like if you had your way about it sence she is domestacated she should be out in some fenced pasture and just ignored untill she dies of old age.

i just cant figure out why or how you belive the things you have been saying. i mean you still have not explained your opinions at all rather you just keep replying, with excuses mostly.

now im not really into the bible stuff much but i do agree with it in that animals are here for our use. we are animals also yes but as the domanate species we will use lesser species to our advantage, and if you belive in letting nature happen you should except that lesser species will be used by people its only natural just as its natural for the wolf to hunt and kill the rabbit. or the flees or ticks to live on a dog and suck its blood. i bet if one of your dog friends comes to you scratching and you see a nice fat blood filled tick you would remove the tick. or deworm your dog friends and such. but why its only natural for the tick or worms or flees to be there isnt it?
sure they maybe parasites but depending on your point of view other things can be a parasite.

par·a·site (pr-st)
n.
1. Biology An organism that grows, feeds, and is sheltered on or in a different organism while contributing nothing to the survival of its host.

personally im not sure what purpose of the earth survival a mouse is. does that mean all mice are able to be killed by your standards?

remember your anti back soap from other post here? it does seem you kill the species you dont belive are worthy of protection. where do you draw the line? just because something has fur maybe? what about birds then? or reptiles? fish? insects? and so on.

 

im also wondering what it is you feed your cat dog or what ever other animals you give care to ?

i mean are they veggy only eaters also? or do you hunt their meat stuffs out in the wild as it should be done?

or do you buy that nice prepackaged dog/cat food in a store?

i never have seen vegan canine or feline foods for sale anyplace. i wonder where the pe food companies get their meat they use in the feed?

hmm. yet another thing to just make me wonder WHY or HOW ..

 

ok i have gotten a few private messages all asking why i am trying to destroy elle. since they all asked the same ill just reply here.

i am not trying to destroy anybody. never would attempt to but as my posts have stated . id like her to explain her opinions and submit a sollution rather just hoping her fantasy will come true. somebody gives a sollution to the issue that works and i am sure people will jump on board and follow through.

but just to say they should not be used wont work. just as if you tried to tell a wolf not to eat rabbits anymore. it wont listen but hey if you put lazy stupid sheep there they would go after the sheep instead of the rabbits. and why? cause its a easy meal. just like my ground beef in the store is easy for me to get instead of going out and having to hunt wild animals for food.

it just makes more sence to raise in captivity the animals we use and leave the wild populations alone.
and if people want to give an alternative thats fine vut it would have to be one that is equal to or better than what we do now as humans, untill then nothing will change.

 

if we were having this convo face to face i'd love to continue but i dont have the time to go back and forth over the net...nor does it interest me to debate this with you. i barley skimmed your last post so if theres something im not addressing thats why. but i will say one last thing.....and that will have to be later

 

the last thing i wanted to say was.....

you keep on asking me to give you this big ol' grand plan on how the world can change and stop using animals. as ive said before.....change is a slow and gradual process and animals are used in just about everything these days....some bottled water is even filtered thru animal bones. but because of vegans everywhere the demand for this is less and therefore the supply is less and if everyone found alternative ways to live without the use of animals (as i do each day....and to the degree that one can as some must hunt and such to stay alive) then the demand would dwindle and thus so would the supply. as ive said, i dont know if perfection is possible and thats not what im trying to do...but to reduce the amt of suffering is possible and ill do as much of that as i can. thats all i can do....and thats all the answcer you are going to get on that subject so if that doesnt satisfy you then too bad.

where do i draw the line? there are sentient species and sorry but if you didnt figure it out....bacteria lingering on my hands doesnt count as sentient (aware of itself and capable of a full range of emotions).....or concious. is a tick sentient? i dont think so but i dont know for certain so when it comes to insects i dont kill them either. if i find one in my home or on my body i release it outdoors. and yes fleas are a different story as i wouldnt allow my dog to suffer with a flea problem therefore i take measures to prevent them in the first place. and i have a feeling you are going to hit me back with something like "oh so you'd kill a flea for the sake of your dog...well then do you draw the line at fleas?" .......SAVE IT....you should fully understand my position by now and if you dont perhaps that says something about your comprehension skills. whether you get what im saying or not i really dont care.

bottom line...you think its ok to use and exploit other species of animals as long as it benefits YOU. i know thats wrong and i'll have no part in it. i strongly disagree with EVERYTHING you said thus far and im sure everything you would ever have to say on the subject and i can see the feeling is mutual....therefore this is a waste total of time.

there are many debates that have gone on in the veg forums on just about every subject you've raised so if you are interested in continuing this have a look over there.

p.s. i know what a parasite is......for fucks sake

 

yup i guess your right for once we will never agree.

its a shame you cant see that you are just like me. you will kill living creatures if its to your benifit just as i do. only difference is i can admit it and accept it and it seems you cant.

the parasite comment was ment to point out depending on your point of view almost anything could be a parasite. wasnt saying your dumb.

and for sentient beings whats that got to do with anything? i mean one person says a person is or a dog is or what ever but what meer person can actually know that tick hasnt got feelings just as the dog does? i mean pick some ticks off a animal some time and drop them in a bowl of water they try to escape to save them selvs does that make them self aware? some people belive plants and trees shouldnt be harmed .

its all in how you see things.

anyways its been fun discussing this with you. sorry you gave up so soon. adios

 

The difference is i try to remain aware in all aspects of my life to signifigantly REDUCE the amount of creatures i harm. you dont care how many you use or harm so long as it serves a purpose for you. i never claimed to be perfect...not once. i dont even think its possible. but atleast i do my very best with the knowledge and resources i have.

ok i swear thats the last thing. .................*flees room*