students' rights & military recruiters at public schools

Military power is huge. We also have one of the world's strongest economies and enjoy more freedom and opportunity than any other country in the world. I'm incredibly thankful that I moved to a country that encourages and allows everyone to make as much of themselves as possible. We can move freely up the socio-economic ladder, something that is not prevelant in many other places.

Who is "superior" to us?

 

That depends on what you are speaking of? Education? Social Freedoms?

The Human Freedom Index compares the amount of freedom that citizens of different countries enjoy. It considers the right to travel, assemble, and speak; the absence of forced labor, torture and other extreme legal punishment (such as the death penalty); freedom of political opposition, the press and trade unions; an independent judiciary; gender equality; and the legal right to trial, counsel of choice, privacy, religion and sexual practice.

Comparing The USA with a nation which tolerates "vices" such as prostitution, legalized marijuana use, and other things conservatives consider "socially destructive"-- THE NETHERLANDS, the Dutch come off better.

Sure, you are free to go to the mall in America, but so are you in Holland. You are free to entrepreneur in America, but so you can in Holland. As well...oh...but what of the terrible taxation? The Netherlands still has more savings per family and although their income taxation is higher, they have less taxes all around, as opposed to the USA's 27 different types of taxation. Also, there is much less government waste in Holland.

And you can smoke pot, buy a prostitute, marry your gay partner and still live a nation of less crime, pollution and more education.

Hey, it's not utopia, obviously, but you asked.










Here are the results...

 

I assumed you would bring up the Netherlands. Yes, they enjoy some social freedoms that we don't, but they are not a utopian society. Their stance on euthanasia is particularly disturbing.

I am fundamentally capatalist. I believe that people should be free to create their own wealth through determination and hard work. I believe in a free economy. The state should have very limited control over economy. A massive bureaucracy will never spend your money efficiently and with only YOUR best interests in mind. Taxation is a very valid concern. I do not think it's right for the government to punish the upper class by placing absurdly high taxes on them (55%-60%) while requiring a relatively minute tax percentage from the lower class. Poor people cost the gov't more money, yet they pay the least taxes. Redistribution of wealth is BAD. The middle and upper classes should not have to take up all the slack.

The Netherlands has some good social programs and obviously some very nice liberties, but I don't buy that they're a utopia.

 

They're not a utopia. As a matter of fact, that's what I said... *lol*

But, I am a "social freedom" nut myself.

 

so, anyway, back to topic, i don't think that it's a problem no one is forced to sign up.

 

I am as well. I like small government and feel that they should have no involvement with personal choices. I just feel that here, or possibly Canada, has the best mix of social freedoms and economic opportunity and general quality of life.

 

I feel the same sometimes, but I feel as if the USA is going away from that now with such draconian laws and policies as they have placed in effect since the 70s and 80s.

 

...yet

 

yeah, but that would be a different thing altogether.

 

You obviously don't get it...

Not everyone grows up privileged. We can't all send our kids to private school, or lose one parent's income to stay home to homeschool a child, yet if kids don't go to school at all their parents can be fined or jailed. So public school is the only answer for many people.

What we should have a right to is a certain amount of privacy for ourselves and our children, even if our kids go to school (which the gov't requires). Our gov't shouldn't use their schools to profile our children for military recruiting purposes. God, they don't even let these kids drink, but they think nothing of pressuring them to pick up a gun and sign up for the army to potentially sacrifice their lives...

 

I repeat my observation that the current drop in recruitment figures show that this"profiling" and "pressuring" is ineffective.

Compared to the alternative of a draft, recruting HS'ers is nothing.

 

Plain and simple, if you send your kids to a public school they have the power to exchange your information. [period]

 

And that's the problem.

 

where exactly do you think our military should recruit? We have high military demands and we need people to fill those roles.

Our alternative could be mandatory military service like several countries. That would solve your problem.

 

I suppose if we weren't into the business of poaching countries, it wouldn't matter that much -- as long as there was no draft.

But, we are and it does.

 

we've had huge military demands before afghanistan/iraq. We're a large nation, we require a large military force. Our military is voluntary, so we need to recruit.

Long after we're done with iraq/afghanistan we will continue to have a large military. It isnt going anywhere.

So the question at hand is: how do we get people to fill our military roles? We can either 1) recruit in public places, 2) institute a mandatory military service or 3) wait until someone comes up with a great idea to fill our million plus army without doing the former. Robots perhaps

 

In a perfect world, they wouldn't recruit. There would be no army. Frankly, I'm shocked the people are still joining armies. There are countries that don't even have armies, and they function well enough.

 

I think that's already beginning to happen...

 

oh god, the orly owl has made it to hipforums.

i bet i could guess which forum you come from gilligan.