Strengthen your faith in the bible Christians.

Again, you are intellectualizing away the existence of the tempter.

Christ went into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil, it is written.

Satan tempted him on three points, hunger, power, and wealth. He had eaten nothing, so Satan firstly challenged Him to turn stones into bread, if He were the Son of God. Jesus simply quoted the scripture to Satan, repeating what was said in the Old Testament, that "Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that proceeds out through the mouth of God."

Secondly, Satan tempted Him by challenging Him to jump off the cliff, and prove that He was the Son of God because surely the angels would catch Him, not allowing Him to harm Himself, quoting scripture. Jesus, however, quoted another scripture, stating that "You shall not tempt the Lord your God".

Thirdly, Satan tempted Him by offering Him "all the kingdoms of the world, and their glory", if Jesus would simply fall down and worship him. Jesus again quotes scripture: "You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only shall you serve."

This was no mere intellectual exercise. It was a confrontation between the Son of God and the leader of the angels in rebellion.

Jesus won, without doing one thing as the "all powerful God". This is God's way, to defeat His enemy through man, rather than directly.

Since it was through man that the fall came, it is through man that God will defeat His enemy, and the angelic forces of darkness.

 

The bible is full of allegory. My intepretation is not my own, but others who have spoken this view throughout history. I simply happen to embrace these interpretations, as they ring true to my experience and my inner feeling.

The bible needs correct interpretation. Some quote the verse where Peter says "No prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.", and yet much of the New Testament is an intepretation of the Old. Much of the apostles teachings are derived from Old Testament verses being interpreted and illuminated as to their meaning, and their significance to us today. Proper and adequate interpretation is necessary to fully understand the bible.

As far as the "children" (in your eyes, seemingly being all mankind) being "guilty", yes, we all are guilty of sin. This is plainly revealed in the bible. It is also true to my experience. We are not only "accused" of being unlike our father, but are in actuality far from God's expression at times. "For all have sinned, and fallen short of the glory of God." To "fall short of the glory of God" is equated with sin. All of us have come up short, in our co-operation with God, in participating in His expression, the reason He created man. We look out primarily for ourselves and our own, selfishly, and not for God's interests on the earth. Even the good we do is with a selfish motive much of the time. We desire others to see us in a positive light, so we do good.

This isn't always the case, but mostly. Men are just politicians, or pompous theologians, trying to expand their influence among men.

There is the human life, the vegetable life, the animal life. There is also God's life. And there is the satanic life. The divine life is holy, distinct, and separate from the others, until God infuses an individual with that life. This requires an open heart.

When I say the spirit of man has been "deadened", I don't mean that men do not have a human spirit, but rather that the proper function of their human spirit in accessing, enjoying, sensing and participating in God has been nullified, in those to whom the gospel has been covered over, being blinded by satan. Even religion takes a large part of the responsibility for this blindness. Religion especially. Religious dogma turns everything into an intellectual exercise, rather than a real experience of the divine. God wants to be received, enjoyed by us, as our life, and life-supply.

This is plainly something of your own manufacture.

This, however poetic, is mere human philosophy.

"Beware that no one carries you off as spoil through his philosophy and empty deceit, according to the traditions of men, according to the elements of the world, and not according to Christ; for in Him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And you have been made full in Him, who is the Head of all rule and authority."

"As therefore you have received the Christ, Jesus the Lord, walk in Him."

You must receive Him.

 

It is obvious that this interpretation is not one you devised however it is the one you propagate. An anthropomorphic satan rings true in your experience, how? Since you suggest that I am full of crap, I will return the favor. There is no spirit in you save for the one god gave you, what you do have is a mind
who's thoughts create flavors of experience.

This is vitally important, it is not what goes into a man that defiles him, that means there are not extraneous outside circumstances that are causing your condition. To put a face on fear, death, destruction, mayhem, is to attack gods plan for salvation. Those things that are apparent in the light of your vision are things you insist must be there. However it is nothing but projection if it involves blame of any kind.

 

And the point of this statement, is to say, you have the correct and I don't.
I think fellows read the quote to mean nothing written in the bible is of any private interpretation, but prophecy, portent, does not come from the scriptures. There are words of prophecy recorded in scripture, but this is an aside to my point.

You are not in a position to judge what gods interests are. There is no past. You cannot produce it. You can remember and speak about experience that is passed through you, but memory is always currently living tissue.
All sin, only while they are sinning. Sin is not an act, it is an errant perception of reality, that is why we fall short of the glory of god, not because we are unworthy. Sinful acts are the natural outcome of the premise you are responding to.

You have one life, this requires an open heart. No professional and private, one.

Every belief becomes dogma if you are not willing to adjust for experience.

 

You are correct perception is not knowledge, however clear perception can lead to knowledge. Judgment, as in evaluation of worthiness, distorts perception. Only god is good.

That is why forgiveness is a centerpiece of atonement. Judgment against your brother and against the very nature of the world, has distorted your perception of the world god created. You wrestle with "demons" that do not exist save for in your fevered mind. And every lesson in fear depreciates your perception of the power of your mind in god.

Fear, is not your friend. It is a liar, through and through. There is no form of fear, but that will not set you at odds with the world. Do you not understand that if all are sinners then everyone is worthy of suspicion at any moment. No one can be redeemed from sin, save they choose forgiveness. When you ask for gods blessing and admit that you may be mistaken in your brother that blessing redeems because what god gives is truly given. If you are a sinner where did your blessing come from. You are blessed by god, not forsaken. The blessing was in you given by god, the capacity to bless, also the capacity to condemn in time, but not in eternity.

Consider what fear says, "follow me and I will keep you safe", but it's obvious intent is to keep you from going where you will and to wound your heart.

 

Thank you, it does speak to my experience.

Philosophy is the love of truth, again what I say speaks to my experience. If I insisted on calling you a fucking retard, we would not be having this discourse.

Are you suggesting that I haven't, not accusing, asking for clarification. If you are, I wonder how it is you have determined. It seems to me it could only be in comparison to what you believe, because you know nothing of me other than our conversations. You haven't heard the tone of my voice, you cannot appreciate my body language, you cannot feel the warmth radiating from my body. All you have of me Is my words and your interpretation. As you interpret what I say, so I will appear to you. For example what I have said appears to you impractical, therefore you conclude that I am naive, liberally bent, etc..

We teach to learn and we learn to teach. I practice what I preach. The positive assertion of your mind is the practice. You will do unto others as you regard them and so do also to yourself. The person in front is your savior or your jailer depending on how you choose to interpret both him and yourself.

God's plan for salvation, goes through your brother.

 

No sir, you are imagining the existence of the tempter.

Who was there to record the account if he was alone?

 

Sorry you feel that way, but my intention isn't to come out "right", whether you believe it or not. I'm doing what's called "sparring". Anyone who has validity could "come out on top" on this one.

The reason I argue is because I believe in defending my position, and the views that I espouse, based on my experience. I feel that this interpretation makes more sense than others. I look for ways to make sense out of the bible, not to cloud it in further personal, or "private" interpretation. What I espouse has been espoused by many others. It's not my "pet doctrine".

And how is it that you can assume that my "point" is to say that I have the "correct" interpretation, and you don't? Isn't that the point of any debate?,,to argue for your view, and see what comes out? I'm not holding a gun to your head, and you can't read my mind.

Yes, I am.

This is just "fancy-dancing" around the fact. You say "There is no past. You cannot produce it." It's like people who say "There is no God, you cannot prove His existence." Sure, if you're talking about empirical proofs, but that's only for those who believe that all that is real is what can be proven to the 5 empirical senses. Very limiting, and unproductive, for a research ethic.

Perhaps your "perception of reality" is "errant". Think about it.

Though you may not receive it, my beliefs only come from experience. If it were not so, I would not have adopted them. As it is with the New Testament, I firstly had experience, then was helped by clear words to understand it. I only accepted the clear words that rang true to my experience.

The Bible wasn't written, and then people sought the experience to back it up. The experience came first. Without the experience, there would have been no scripture.

Today, many "christians" seek to re-create the "christian experience" they read about. This issues in so many legalistic cults and isms. What people need to do is to seek a genuine experience of God, through a sincere heart and a willing and exercised spirit. Then they would see that the experience is common to all who are of the faith. This is what happened to me. I firstly sought God, through many ways, and finally came upon a repeatable experience, and the only one that actually made sense. I don't believe in an irrational God.

Paul states that in times past, God was a "mystery", but now He has revealed Himself. God wills to reveal this mystery, but some are not ready, and others are implacable. As it is written:

"At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and [he] to whomsoever the Son will reveal [him]."

and,,

"He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given."

God discriminates, reveals things to those whose hearts are open and turned to Him. He had mercy on me, to open my heart to Him. I have nothing to boast of, except in Him. I have had many stories of God's mysterious leading in my life, as well as the joy of His presence. Through the sovereignty of His arrangement, I have met many who have similar or identical experiences, who didn't simply choose to adopt a certain "view", to form a "church",,people who were non-ambitious to "organize", but simply had a loving and open heart toward God.

 

The world today is not the one "God created".

"Trust not in man, whose breath is in his nostrils."

"Trust not in man, whose arm is flesh."

No one is above suspicion. No one ought to have "carte blanche",,

Do you really believe the things you are saying, and practice them? Then why do you suspect me? Why do you distrust the things I say?

Are you then a hypocrite?

"Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, [Saying], Blessed [are] they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed [is] the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. [Cometh] this blessedness then upon the circumcision [only], or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision."

Here Paul speaks, in Romans 4, on the righteousness that is of faith, not based on the works of the law.

God's blessing is not based on our condition, but on Christ' redemption. The sinful nature will not be eradicated until our bodies are glorified, at His coming.

Without Christ' redeeming death, our sin, and our sins, would have no solution. But now, when God sees a redeemed believer, He sees the redeeming blood of Christ, not the sin.

[/QUOTE]

 

Philosophy is promoted as "love of truth", however, in practice, it becomes "love of self-indulgent, personally fulfilling and poetic multitudes of words, largely void of meaning, but sounding impressive to the untrained ear."

I'm not reading minds here. I'm reading your own words.

It's not difficult to ascertain what a person has experienced through his/her writing, especially if there is a quantity. Not once have you spoken of having received. Your writing always seems to credit yourself for having "understood", rather than crediting God, for having saved. It would seem that salvation is a dirty word to you, since you don't believe in the biblical concept of sin and sins, and the need for Christ' redemption. You argue incessantly about the lack of need for the shedding of blood. Isn't this clear?

Everyone I've ever spoken with who has had a genuine salvation experience has been able to say so. You profess to have been born in God, from your natural birth. This flies in the face of what Jesus clearly states in John 3, that without a spiritual birth, apart from the natural, there is no entering into the kingdom of God.

Sure, I remember when I was just a lad, and looking up at the stars in the sky, thinking that there must be a God, or at least some intelligent life "out there", but that was before I received Christ, and had a dynamic regenerative moment, having been led to pray by a minister of the gospel (whom, by the way, I have never again seen, since that day). I was truly alive, as if from the dead, and felt as if I were "new" inside. The joy was quite tangible. Since that time, I have also had further experiences of salvation, personal and intimate, and find that salvation is an ongoing dynamic, not a one-time thing. In fact, salvation is just Christ. Apart from Him, there is no salvation.

There are many who have been "saved", and yet their experience has become dim with time. This is because they have turned away. Initial salvation only gets you "in the door". Apart from the living Christ, the Spirit of the resurrected Jesus, salvation is just idle talk.

More philosophical talk. I don't doubt that you have personal integrity. I'm not accusing you of "lying". I simply distrust your experience, and based on that, your beliefs, due to your avoidance of the redemption issue.

 

Jesus was never truly alone, except for a short time, on the cross.

Again, you are asking for "empirical evidence", as Thomas was, in John 20.

 

Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. (Matthew 12:34)

 

Hello, just popping in. With all due respect are you saving yourself by staying fit in your enthusiasm or faith? Is it you keeping your faith alive that determines your salvation? Is that the way salvation and faith works by constantly feeding it with church, prayer, fellowship with others? Your faith hinges on your keeping it strong? Does being a Christian take a lot of work?

 

Thank you for granting my request. As you may have observed from your quote
that I posted, you had been railing me for days for saying things that you yourself had been saying to someone else. I told you that you were inconsistent with your premises. I asked you for a decent hearing. i asked for the blessing of god for all of us. I told you that I had had enough of your demand for death. I cried, to god, god I don't know what I am doing, I heard the holy spirit say take a breath, I did, I heard it say, take another, I did. I looked through the thread just a glance and your quote popped glaringly out of page, and in frustration for the sake of your insistence that I should be discredited, instead of desiring to come together, I posted that outburst, and then I apologized for it. That is the abundance of my heart.

We need to move along. Please stop your campaign to discredit me. It detracts from all of us. As you do unto the least you do also unto me, and also to yourself. God and his kingdom are one.

 

No, i am saying it is a teaching device, not a historical account.

 

How is your ear trained to distinguish the unspoken thoughts of an individual. What do you know of my meaning. You compare what you interpret of what I say to what you say. You talk only to yourself when you assign phenomena to others apart from yourself. You are speaking of your past, not mine.

I have said that I have been baptized once with water and once by the holy spirit and that what god gives is truly given.
Your comment is simply not true. If you have the focus or intent to find what I have spoken of the gifts of god and the holy spirit, they are there. If it is your purpose to regard me as without, based not on what I say, but on your impressions of what I say then you will find evidence for that.

I cannot think of a reason that you would insist on a state of sin unless you think it is unworthy to be holy.

I claim that we all are created in the likeness and image of god. I did not always believe that, I believed as you do. I believed that I was contending with my sinful nature but the holy spirit showed me I was at war with an illusion about myself. I came to this place, because I had experienced abject failure in my personal life, and I had run out of survival techniques. i had always loved god, believed in god, and tried to balance my faith, through prayer, by listening to sermons, reading the bible, sunday school, "clean living', et all, but if I was honest with myself, I was experiencing the effects promised. i asked with a pleading of my whole self, there must be a better way. I was asking for practical results and the practice that produced it.
The holy spirit answered my prayer and began to show me through associations in my mind that were unmistakable in their meaningful connections. In other words the holy speaks in a language that is meaningful
To the one who hears it.

Gotta go right now. I am kindly disposed toward you, not at odds in mind or spirit. I would like to pick up later.



Sure, I remember when I was just a lad, and looking up at the stars in the sky, thinking that there must be a God, or at least some intelligent life "out there", but that was before I received Christ, and had a dynamic regenerative moment, having beholyen led to pray by a minister of the gospel (whom, by the way, I have never again seen, since that day). I was truly alive, as if from the dead, and felt as if I were "new" inside. The joy was quite tangible. Since that time, I have also had further experiences of salvation, personal and intimate, and find that salvation is an ongoing dynamic, not a one-time thing. In fact, salvation is just Christ. Apart from Him, there is no salvation.

There are many who have been "saved", and yet their experience has become dim with time. This is because they have turned away. Initial salvation only gets you "in the door". Apart from the living Christ, the Spirit of the resurrected Jesus, salvation is just idle talk.





More philosophical talk. I don't doubt that you have personal integrity. I'm not accusing you of "lying". I simply distrust your experience, and based on that, your beliefs, due to your avoidance of the redemption issue.[/QUOTE]

 

How does it?

Now you compare me to the Inquisition.

I not trying to extract anything from you, I point out to you how far you have strayed from God's word and you think that is like putting thumb screws on you?

The teachings of the Christ are many but let's start with something simple, the beginning of the model prayer. "Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified" or if you prefer "Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name", how is one to sanctify a name that is unknown to them. So we should learn that name and freely use that name in a way that brings it honor. By the way in English that name is Jehovah.

(Exodus 3:15) This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel, ‘Jehovah the God of YOUR forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob, has sent me to YOU.’ This is my name to time indefinite, and this is the memorial of me to generation after generation.

I said you don't know what Biblical love is and you said that it is love without "reservation for condition" and I assume you meant "reservation or condition" but yet you put conditions on love.

Another teaching of the Christ is "I am giving YOU a new commandment, that YOU love one another; just as I have loved YOU." what does mean? Jesus says this is how to display this love, "No one has love greater than this, that someone should surrender his soul in behalf of his friends."
But you tell us that Jesus didn't sacrifice himself for us, so you are saying that love falls short of sacrifice but Jesus says that our love for others should be that we should go as far as to sacrifice ourselves or others. The love you talk of is a weak shadow of the Christian love that we should display.

I have not assigned guilt to anyone. It is you that feels like I'm assigning guilt when I have merely pointed out what God's word the Bible says. It seems like with your somewhat constant accusing me of assigning guilt, you feel the shoe fits.

Oh, by the way, I'm not upset in the least. I have no reason to be.

There is no anti god system of things, that is an accusation, against god?

If, now, the good news we declare is in fact veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing, among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.(2 Corinthians 4:3-4; Romans 12:2; Ephesians 2:2)

PS You never never really explained, what is it that I'm suppose to be taking glee in killing?

 

So Adam immediately assumed dying was a good thing.

But you just said it was more.

And how do we get to that "life"?

Back to Satan's lies are we?

Any Scriptures you can cite to show this?

John 15 what?

 

As do you.

But if you would bother to read what I say, you would have read that Jesus was not worried about suffering the pain of death or that he was to be sacrificed, he was upset that he would die falsely accused of being a blasphemer, something worse than the pain of death to Jesus and was asking God to remove that burden from him.

 

Quite simply it is the tree that God set aside and said do not eat of this tree. It could have been any tree and there could have been others that bore the same type of fruit but they were not to eat of the tree God said not to eat of.

Genesis 2:9 mentions two trees "the tree of life in the middle of the garden and the tree of the knowledge of good and bad" and they don't appear to be the same tree.

If you are just going to make up things, why discuss it at all?

That is correct, falsehoods are many and varied and God does not ask us to understand them, god only asks to understand the Truth.