Stop! Don't buy the Christmas' tree this year!

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Yes, but it was written by men. And for me, It makes sense to consider their motivations for writing that. I think it was more a case of tribalism and trying to keep your own tribe under control and not have them take up the neighboring "pagan" traditions, rather than a command from God. Remember, back then the priests had a lot of power, so it'd be in their interest to keep the people scared to stray from their commands. ​

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I'm not a Christian so there'd really be no point.

 

BlackBillBlake ​

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Dear Bill, it is up to you, but myself I can't do something which displease God, I even couldn't think about it, it is up to you how to make your relationship with god looks like, we believers shouldn't imitate disbelievers in their celebration style or whatsoever especially if God mentioned it, if I were you and if I brought even a fake tree I will really hate myself and I know that I won't sleep for several days. Think about it, this is God not me or he or she, God the Lord, the precious Lord , this is really so easy order. Why shall I displease him for few hours! Yeah it is a big deal for me BIG DEAL​

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Dear Bill, if this is what God want, then let it be, just say, '' Yes sir '' with your all pleasure and satisfaction, these orders, law etc are temporary for this transient life, sometimes we can't know what is the wisdom beyond his orders, perhaps it is a test from God which it is so easy and you can pass it with A+ easily, Would you prefer to obey and follow God or your desire =( God should be in the top of the priorities' list always, perhaps because God want us to be more careful , I mean if I will imitate them today in a tiny act, tomorrow and gradually I will imitate them in other things which isn't tiny =(, what is the difference between us then! We believers should have our own identity, the identity which God chose itfor us,​

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Quraan: Say (O Muhammad to mankind): ''if you (really) love Allah then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your sins, and Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. ​

So, accordingly if we really love Allah then we should obey him and follow his commands and if we will do this he will love us ​

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Deuteronomy 5.1, 6.4:And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them. Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.And it shall be, when the LORD thy God shall have brought thee into the land which he sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give thee great and goodly cities, which thou buildedst not,And houses full of all good things, which thou filledst not, and wells digged, which thou diggedst not, vineyards and olive trees, which thou plantedst not; when thou shalt have eaten and be full;è (see how we return his favor )Then beware lest thou forget the LORD, which brought thee forth out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God, and serve him, and shalt swear by his name.Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which are round about you;… lest the anger of the LORD thy God be kindled against thee, and destroy thee from off the face of the earth.Ye shall not tempt the LORD your God, as ye tempted him in Massah.Ye shall diligently keep the commandments of the LORD your God, and his testimonies, and his statutes, which he hath commanded thee.And thou shalt do that which is right and good in the sight of the LORD: that it may be well with thee …Wherefore it shall come to pass, if ye hearken to these judgments, and keep, and do them, that the LORD thy God shall keep unto thee the covenant and the mercy which he sware unto thy fathers:And he will love thee, and bless thee, and multiply thee: he will also bless the fruit of thy womb, and the fruit of thy land, …​

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Deuteronomy 10.12:And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, towalk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,​

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Deuteronomy11.1:Therefore thou shalt love the LORD thy God, and keep his charge, and his statutes, and his judgments, and his commandments, alway.​

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Matthew 18.8:Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.​

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Matthew 22: 36:​

Master, which is the great commandment in the law?esus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.This is the first and great commandment.And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.​

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With broken heart, downhearted soul, sadly: I know this, but regarding the tree it is really so simple and easy to do it!, just do get the tree! Is it hard? How can you spend a day or hours in displeasing God! This is really too hard, O Allah, if someday I will anger you by a deed; please take my soul before committing it, Amen.​

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*sigh* tears full my eyes, OH dear Moses, the prophets struggled as their followers to convey God's law and to preserve it in order to be received to the generations of the future while people don't care or don't pay attention to their struggle or at least to return their favor. They were persecuted, insulted etc and they endured all that just to convey the message of God to us which is for our advantage.​

Matthew 5.10:​

Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.​

NAY, your struggle dear prophets and former followers won't be lost, won't be useless, and won't be unfruitful. ALWAYS On your method.​

TrippinBTM ​

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My comment is the same which I wrote it above to Bill on this Quote. Plus, I believe that the bible isn't corrupted fully, there are still some intact verses, however, it is up to you, ​

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*Not have them take up the neighboring "pagan" traditions, rather than a command from Godè yes, they should follow God if they truly believers.​

Quraan: O you who believe! Obey Allah and his Messenger, and turn not away from him while you are hearing. ​

Quraan: … then do you believe in a part of the Scripter and reject the rest? … Allah isn't unaware of what you do. ​

If they believe in the bible then they have to follow it not to choose what to follow according to their desire.​

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YoursSincerely,​

CatStevens​

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The thing is Cat that I don't really think the OT is actually the 'word of God'.

I think it was written by men, perhaps some of them inspired, who lived in a world very different from ours. It's hardly relevant to-day. And with the advent of Christianity was relegated to a lesser position. So even Christians aren't bound by it.
If so, then they'd have to have the big animal sacrifices mentioned in the OT.
If you think Christians have deviated from the OT, so have Muslims, since they don't practice such sacrifices either. No doubt you'll say the Prophet of Islam said it's not neccessary - so he subverted the OT law just as much as Christians (of whom incidentally, I am not one).
I also think that mono-theism has no monopoly on God. Many pagan philosophers such as Plato also believed in One God.

 

Well lucky for me i am pagan, so i can fill my house with trees =P

 

BlackBillBlake ​

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! I think you aren't Christian probably.​

Do you believe that once upon the time, Torah has been revealed to Moses if you are a Christian? I think so!​

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I think that happened because of Paul.​

Click here read post 48 and open the links or open the links which are in post 49 ​

+ read posts 41 and 42​

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I think that you probably know that Muslims' belief in the current bible is that it has been corrupted by the hand of men. We believe too that Moses brought the Holy Torah from God including God's teachings and orders etc, then Jesus brought the Holy Gospel after Moses and God abrogated some of its orders which were in Torah, when Muhammad came with the last Holy Book the Quraan, it is the same, there are orders which has been abrogated by God that we don't have to do it anymore. The Islamic law is suitable for all mankind at all times.​

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The Islamic law, commandments, orders, teachings etc which God ordained for mankind are suit them till the end of time, for this reason the Quraan being the last revealed to the last of the prophets and mess angers, abrogates some of the previous scriptures orders.​

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Quraan: And will make him (Jesus) a messenger unto the children of Israel, (saying): Lo! I come unto you with a sign from your Lord. Lo! I fashion for you out of clay the likeness of a bird, and I breathe into it and it becomes a bird, by Allah's leave. I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I raise the dead, by Allah's leave. And I announce unto you what ye eat and what ye store up in your houses. Lo! herein verily is a portent for you, if ye are believers.And (I come) confirming that which was before me of the Torah, and to make lawful some of that which was forbidden unto you. I come unto you with a sign from your Lord, so keep your duty to Allah and obey me.Lo! Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is a straight path.​

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Allah stated in Quraan:​

say (O Muslims), '' we believe in Allah and that which has been sent down to us and that which has been sent down to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and to [the offspring of the twelve sons of Jacob] and that which has been given to Mosesè (Torah)and Jesus è (Gospel), ….''Accordingly, Jesus and Moses are prophets of Allah and the Gospel and the Torah have been revealed to them from Allah.​

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What happened was that all of these prophets (before Muhammad) were not well received by themajorityof the people, for instance they startedtampering[corrupting] with the teachings of Moses and Jesus peace be upon them. That is why Allah has sent Muhammad with the last Message (i.e. the Quraan) to bring all of mankind back to the true belief and to worship one God, without partners or intermediaries.​

[NIV]Matthew: 15: 3:​

And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition?… 6: … Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition.7: You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you8:These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.9:they worship me in vain; their teaching are but rules taught by men.​

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Jeremiah 8. 4-8:1 " 'At that time, declares the LORD, the bones of the kings and officials of Judah, the bones of the priests and prophets, and the bones of the people of Jerusalem will be removed from their graves. 2 They will be exposed to the sun and the moon and all the stars of the heavens, which they have loved and served and which they have followed and consulted and worshiped. They will not be gathered up or buried, but will be like refuse lying on the ground. 3 Wherever I banish them, all the survivors of this evil nation will prefer death to life, declares the LORD Almighty.' 4 "Say to them, 'This is what the LORD says:" 'When men fall down, do they not get up? When a man turns away, does he not return?5 Why then have these people turned away? Why does Jerusalem always turn away? They cling to deceit; they refuse to return. 6 I have listened attentively, but they do not say what is right. No one repents of his wickedness,​

saying, "What have I done?" Each pursues his own course like a horse charging into battle. 7 Even the stork in the sky knows her appointed seasons, and the dove, the swift and the thrush observe the time of their migration. But my people do not know the requirements of the LORD. 8 " 'How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes
has handled it falsely?9 The wise will be put to shame; they will be dismayed and trapped. Since they have rejected the word of the LORD, what kind of wisdom do they have?

Jeremiah6. 10:To whom can I speak and give warning? Who will listen to me?

Their ears are closed so they cannot hear. The word of the LORD is offensive to them; they find no pleasure in it.

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Jeremiah14.14 Then the LORD said to me, "The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries and the delusions of their own minds. 15 Therefore, this is what the LORD says about the prophets who are prophesying in my name: I did not send them​

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Jeremiah23.36 But you must not mention 'the oracle of the LORD ' again, because every man's own word becomes his oracle and so you distort the words of the living God, the LORD Almighty, our God.​

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Quraan: 2: 79: Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and then say, ''This is from Allah'' …Woe to them for what their hands have written​

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Quraan: 2:85: … Then do you believe in a part of the Scripture and reject the rest?​

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Allah told us that the Torah and the gospel have been corrupted; therefor Allah has sent Muhammad with the last Message (i.e. the Quraan) ​

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Quraan: 15:9: Verily, I, it is I who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. Quraan) and surely I will guard it (from corruption).​

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Quraan: 27:76: Verily, this Quraan narrates to the Children of Israel most of that in which they differ.​

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Matthew; 21: 43: Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.​

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John 4.21-34: (Jesus) saith unto her,Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: … and now is, when thetrue worshippers shall worship the Fatherin spirit and in truth:for the Father seeketh such to worship him.​

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For Muslims the Qur’an is the last but not the only holy book revealed by Allah to mankind through His messengers. It is, however, the only holy book which remained intact from the time of its revelation until the present time. No addition, deletion, or interpolation found its way into the Qur’an. As such, Muslims do not need any other scriptures to base their faith on, either in full or in part.​

On the other hand, it is erroneous to think that Muslims reject the Bible in too and do not accept a single passage of it. There are at least two reasons for this:​

a) One of the main articles of faith in Islam is the belief in all prophets and messengers sent before the advent of the last of them, Prophet Muhammad. This also necessitates believing in the holy books revealed to those prophets in the original forms of their revelation;​

b) The fact that the transmission of earlier revelations, prior to the Qur’an suffered from inaccuracies and misinterpretations does not justify a total and categorical rejection of such scriptures. There are bound to be some passages and portions of the Bible whose essence, if not wording, need not be rejected by Muslims.​

Criterion of Acceptance​

What is the Muslim basis or criterion for accepting or not accepting portions or passages from the Bible? The Qur’an itself provides such criterion:​

(Qur’an) “And I have sent down to you (O Muhammad) the Book (this Quraan) in truth, confirming the Scripture (Books) that came before it, and a watch over it .... “ ​

This emphasizes two main aspects of the Qur’an:​

a) The Qur’an confirms those teachings or passages of previous scriptures which remained intact.​

b) The Qur’an is the last, complete, authoritative and authentic revelation. It is the final arbiter and the only criterion to correct any inaccuracy or misinterpretation which might have occurred in the transmission of scriptures. It helps in discovering human additions to or interpolations of previous revelations, even as it reveals possible deletions which might have taken place through the centuries prior to its revelation (the Qur’an). Indeed one of the names of the Qur’an is al-Furqan (the criterion which distinguishes between right and wrong, truth and falsehood).​

It follows therefore that a Muslim has no reason to reject the essence of any passage in the Bible if such a passage is confirmed by the Qur’an. For example, we read in the NT a reiteration of one of the Ten Commandments:​

“And Jesus answered him. The first of all commandments is hear, 0 Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord” (Mark 12:29)​

A Muslim who reads this passage in the Qur’an can find no objection to its essence. After all the Qur’an confirms:​

“Say He is Allah, the One and Only (God)” (The Qur’an 112:1)​

peace​

YoursSincerely,​

CatStevens​

 

Isn't it sort of silly to argue about ritualistic things or physical things....? Isn't it better instead to do whatever your tradition may tell you...but only to do so if the extreme love for God is behind all motives? Getting caught up in particulars is kind of rediculous...everyone has different paths...but the love is the same at the end... I offer flowers and you fast...but isn't the devotion and love behind these actions the important part in the end...not so much what you are doing...? Isn't that what Jesus was talking about when he talks about the hypocrites who do things out in the open for their egos..but that which is between you and the Lord...should remain as such... ? ::shrug:: Just a thought because you are arguing over a Christmas tree... ::shrug:: Time and place change...society changes...let it change...the love and devotion are the important parts in the end...yes?

 

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If it's corrupted it is therefore untrustworthy. So why should we be bound by it's pronouncements on the matter of decorating trees or anything else?​

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I think all Christians should be like Jehovahs Witness, and leave all things pagan to the pagans and not celebrate any of the holidays.

Oh wait, that would have a horrible economic outcome, with all the
money spending christians not buying trees, presents and chocolate bunnies.

Think of the impact on egg farmers!

 

Actually, this part was probably put in hundreds and hundreds
of years after Jesus could have said it, when the bible was being
compiled and distributed to the Northern European pagans as a way
to discourage their practices.

Like "wow, jesus was talking about us back then, this must be wrong"​

 

wow all of this hurts my head... and im still not convinced...

 

"Because who would want their kids eating the head off a chocolate Jesus..."- Robin Williams

 

Chocolate angels are ok though....

 

Chocolate crosses would be cool. I'd eat one.

 

I'd eat a chocolate ANYTHING, really. Mainly because it won't remain in the original molded shape for very long once I get ahold of it, haha.

 

Would you eat a chocolate virgin??

 

hahaha, if that means what my dirty mind thinks it means, then, yes.

 

SvgGrdnBeauty
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No dear sister, it isn't, if there is a God and I believe in him, and if that ritual doesn't please him, then I should argue this matter with those who believe in him.
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No it isn't better at all, especially if that tradition doesn't please him.
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How my extreme love is behind this specific issue whereas this dead doesn't please his majesty!! Quraan: my love Allah states: Say (O Muhammad to mankind): ''if you (really) love Allah then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your sins, and Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
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Deuteronomy 5.10: And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.
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Accordingly, if we really love Allah (God) we have to obey him and follow his commands and if we will do this he will love us =), we should keep his commandments and follow his instructions as Moses and all the prophets recommended that.
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Everyone has a belief in God, some are Muslims others are Hindus, Buddhists etc, this thread actually was written to those Christians and Jews because they both believe in the OT and this command agrees with the Islamic teachings as well. Actually their God is the same, this is my belief.
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On condition that it doesn't disagree with God's teachings and doesn't displease him.
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But God remains the same. We should be stronger in the face of the change! If that change doesn't please the Lord.
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Yours Sincerely,
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Cat Stevens
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Black Bill Blake​

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This thread actually was written to those Christians and Jews because they both believe in the OT as reliable Book and this command agrees with the Islamic teachings as well. And if it is corrupted it doesn't mean that all what it includes is wrong, there are intact verses tooè in the Islamic view, my belief. ​

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What!! Chocolate angels!!! Do you mean that the shapes or figures of the chocolates are like the angels' figure?! If so, I think this is disrespect towards them!​

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Yours Sincerely,
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Cat Stevens
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heron
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Well done =)
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I think that Jehovah should be more important than anything else in their life and in the top of their list always and indeed God deserve it strongly and is worth, however, buying presents, chocolates whatsoever can be in any other time.
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Deuteronomy 5.10: And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.
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Deuteronomy 6.4: Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
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Matthew 22.36: Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment.
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Posts #121 & 122
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Yours Sincerely,
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Cat Stevens
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buttrfly)i(
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Are you a Christian, or a Jew? If so, then, the verse is clear.
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What!! Chocolate Jesus!!! Do you mean that the shapes or figures of the chocolates are like Jesus' figure?! If so, I think this is the utter disrespect towards Jesus the Christ!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Yours Sincerely,
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Cat Stevens
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