Star Wars: The Last Jedi’

I don’t think anyone for a second believed Kylo Ren when he told Rey that she’s a nobody and her parents simply abandoned her on Jakku

More likely she’s either the daughter of Leia or Luke, the granddaughter of Obi-Wan Kenobi or god forbid the granddaughter of Sith Lord Emperor Palpatine.

We’ll find out soon enough in episode IX which is slated to come out in 2019

 

I remember no one believing Vader when he told Luke "I am your father."

 

Rey is simply too powerful to be the product of nobodies, besides her ability to communicate telepathically with Kylo Ren at least suggests the possibility
that they may be related perhaps cousins?

Just like when Luke communicated with Leia, and Darth Vader communicated telepathically with Luke.

 

If I had to attempt to justify Rey I found the Chosen One reincarnate theory the most reasonable

 

Unless the message is even nobodies can be powerful.

 

Either of those last two.

Parents were probably nobodys, but grandparents...i think thats the zinger

Theres no wow reveal if none of her family are anybody

 

Perhaps there's no wow reveal.

 

If not, then I'm going to go with Rey ends up the bad guy (person) Ren ends up the good guy....as the big twist

 

I don't think 'much' of TFA was reshot. They changed the ending a little-- originally Rey found Luke on the hilltop with giant boulders floating around him.

But they didn't make this change because of fan reaction, they made it because otherwise it would be inconsistent with the story that Rian was going to tell (Luke closed himself off from the Force). This was a creative choice, not a marketing decision. Nothing about TLJ strikes me as a marketing decision.

I really don't want to get into another discussion about plotholes here, so I won't ask.
But I will say I didn't find any of the plot holes to be terrible.

The original Star Wars wasn't much more than a mishmash of 1930s sci fi serials, Akira Kurosawa and other B movies. Rian actually took the series back to its roots, and incorporated some obscure EU fiction as well. There is nothing about this movie that makes me think it wasn't made with love for the series-- a love that the prequels didn't have, despite the fact Lucas himself was responsible. All of these comments calling it a cynical marketing decision are really missing the mark for me.

It was as creative as it could be while still being part of the series.

You say that it was a good choice, and then criticize it based on the same clichés that you have just derided.

The whole point of it is that you don't need to be part of some noble lineage in order to be strong with the Force. I explained in another post that the official explanation for her sudden leap forward is that she 'downloaded' her skills when Kylo tried to extract information from her in TFA. Kylo accidentally 'unlocked' her abilities, and then she reversed the probe into him and learned some techniques in the same way she learned that he was afraid, wanted to be Vader, etc. The fact that he had been shot and then clipped with the lightsaber when they fought didn't help things.
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I know that everyone says that Rey is a Mary Sue, but this is because they forget that Mary Sues are usually created by their authors as a form of wish fulfillment and self-delusion. Rey obviously isn't that. I know how it's going to sound, but I think that maybe the writers have been too protective of her because she is a young woman as opposed to a man.

But you can have powerful, likeable, prodigious characters if you want... it's not like they like Rey for no reason. I like Rey. Daisy Ridley is charming.

It wasn't predictable to me. Obviously he was going to go one way or the other, but it was the back and forth that kept us guessing-- and he was really good at the back and forth. Being friendly, offering to help, stealing the ship, taking the necklace, giving it back... I thought it was great. DJ was part of Finn's arc in this movie-- Finn was unsure that he wanted to belong to the resistance/rebellion, but after seeing what could happen to him if he lived only for himself, he decided to belong to something and called himself 'REBEL scum'... it was a great moment.

DJ is like what Han could have been in TFA if they had really pushed it.
I hope to see him again in IX, actually.

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Poe was a recently demoted subordinate whose involvement in the evacuation cost lives. Because we are seeing that part of the story unfold from his perspective, we sympathize with him... but that doesn't mean he is right, or deserved to know. Poe's arc was that he needed to learn discipline and how to work with others... it was actually his own inability to control himself and assess the situation that caused him to angrily complain about Holdo fuelling up the transports, information which then made its way to DJ, who told the First Order.

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Well, there's still another movie to come.
I think the sequels work really well as a third chapter... there's a lot of reflection, a lot of analysis... in fact, for me at least, TLJ made me like TFA a lot more.

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The First Order was essentially the remnants of the old Empire, which became a rump state after it was toppled by the Rebel/Ewok alliance (people don't seem to be talking about that one as much anymore). It gained support among the systems that remained loyal to the Empire (cronies and fascists), and the New Republic's insistence on a decentralized, democratic model made it far easier for them to break apart and seek a return to the more 'orderly' form of government. This era will be depicted in the new animated series.

Luke turned his back on the Jedi because he felt guilty over Kylo's fall to the dark side and the Jedi religion became a convenient scapegoat to assuage his personal guilt over losing his nephew and ruining Han and Leia as well. This WAS explained in the film. He became cynical about the Jedi in general and didn't feel that they were necessary, and personally believed that he would do more harm than good if he trained Rey. ​

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The younger heroes aren't going to have the same sense of despair, as they would have been children when the Empire fell. Luke DID have that despair... it was one of his reasons for isolating himself-- he felt personally responsible for Kylo's/the Knights' part in it all.

The grand overarching story is a family saga-- the rise and fall of the Skywalker family. The prequels depicted the rise of Vader, the originals were about his children, and now the sequels are his grandchild and the new generation of heroes. Superficially it resembles the originals, but it actually combines themes from the prequels (Kylo's fall into darkness, struggle against the light as opposed to Luke's struggle against the darkness) and the originals (Rey's new hero rises... curiously, I would argue that she is more like Anakin than Luke, but also resistant to corruption and temptation), while also taking the story in completely new directions.

Of course, we'll have to wait for IX to see what happens but JJ has already said it will be a sort of 'looking back' movie that combines themes from the originals, the sequels and the prequels. The reason I think it's going to be good is because they have already disposed of the Palpatine figure and now Kylo has achieved what Vader never did... he is essentially the despotic ruler of the galaxy. Luke's 'vision' showed him the pain and destruction he would cause, so I am guessing that is what we will see in IX. If people weren't so busy complaining about TLJ and actually paid attention to what it was saying, they might be more interested in the final film. I don't think it will be some generic fan-pleasing copout at all.

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The animated series is going to address what happened before episode VII. It wouldn't have been my first choice, but starting out with Rey makes more sense if this is primarily her story. To be honest, I would have made Ben/Kylo the central character, showed his fall from grace/the end of the New Republic in VII... and introduced Rey/the search for Luke in VIII, with a time jump in between. But of course, that's hindsight, and it would be weird to do a Star Wars series about a villain.

The real problem with the series is that everyone came into it thinking it was going to be about Luke, Han and Leia... and it also doesn't help that Kylo Ren is such a great villain, and overshadows Rey at every turn.

Still, the sequels aren't as bafflingly stupid as the prequels... JJ and Rian are pretty talented filmmakers, even if JJ tends to paint himself into corners he can't get out of with his screenplays. Did you know that TFA was going to open with a shot of Luke's severed hand and lightsaber floating in space? Not kidding.

 

Rosebud is the sled

 

"May the 4th be with..... all of you."

 

@fraggle_rock

I had the same experience where after seeing TLJ I went back and enjoyed TFA much more. Also, didn't know that bit about Rey essentially downloading different abilities from Kylo... That's interesting.

 

That's because it was a retcon added after the fact in an attempt to quell the allegations of Mary Suedom leveled against Rey. Everybody just forget that the Force has never worked that way before, after all it makes for a damn good deus ex machina when your shit writing gets exposed for what it is. THE FORCE!!!!!!!!!

 

Wow, VG digs Kylo Ren? Seems the only one!

How would he know anyway? Maybe it was some jab to weaken her... Ah well, i agree it probably was a hint at something bigger. I hope no more lame easy family ties though. That the new villain is



Spoiler alert!!







The lovechild of Han and Leia felt already kind of easy and lame first time I watched TFA

Maybe she grew in some womb of an for all sides insignificant woman, like Anakin Skywalker. If her parents aren't nobodies I for one hope at least they're new people. Why the fuck does she have to be related to any classic character from the older canon

 

She is the child of Chewbacca and Mallatobuck.

 

You are just wayyyy too determined to hate these movies.

If it was retconned, which I don't think it was, then it's still perfectly consistent with what we saw in the movie. I don't know why you let yourself get so upset about that when the whole Vader is Luke's father thing was obviously retconned too, and so was Leia as Luke's sister.

Rian Johnson actually got the idea of force projection from this book:

The Jedi Path: A Manual for Students of the Force (real-life book)

There is no rule that says that the force CAN'T work that way, and there is nothing that suggests depicting it this way is inconsistent with anything that came before.

 

Oh Beatin you just a hater.

 

It's true... Read that one awhile back and even while watching TLJ I was thinking how cool it was they were using that source material.

 

"I am your father" wasn't needed to explain poor writing & development. It was a simple & beautiful plot twist designed to wow the audience. In short the two aren't even comparable.

As to the retcon it was added in a comic well after the fact. Darth Vader #10 I believe.

I wasn't referring to force projection I was referring to the rip off mind meld between Rey & Kylo in TFA. It was later stated that this is how she became a pro mind tricker & a decent saber duelist over night. A good story doesn't need to be retconed just to make sense.....