Star Wars: The Last Jedi’

No I claim the franchise is dead because it's no longer Star Wars. Star Wars was about light vs dark, heroism vs villainy, the redemption of what seemed irredeemable. They didn't need to make every villain into an incompetent blathering imbecile just to make the heroes look good. Who here can say that Grand Moff Tarkin or Darth Vader himself were incompetent in any way? In fact I'd go so far as to say that the only bad guy in the original trilogy who may even fall into such would be the emperor & at least his foolhardiness can be explained by simple hubris. There hasn't been a single villain in the last two movies who actually appeared to have a grasp on how to handle any sort of military operation. Except perhaps the guy in command of the dreadnought in TLJ and he got completely overruled by Hux which of course then led to his ship getting blown out of the sky.

Then let's take a look at the heroes of the new movies. They all fall into one of two categories, especially now that the entire original cast has been killed off. Either they are men, & therefore slavering buffoons who should just shut up and let the women take charge, or they're the women who think they aren't slavering buffoons but yet make nothing but poor decisions & fail to actually do anything productive. As an example just look at General Purple Hair from TLJ, who literally refused to inform anyone what her plan was for the entire film & eventually caused a mutiny on her own ship. She was too busy talking down to every male character to be bothered to actually military. Last but not least lets look at Rey who with no prior training, knowledge, or well, really anything can magically take out every single force user in the series, instantly grasps lightsaber combat, inherently understands the finer points of flying the falcon, better even than Han himself, & even grasps the methods & calculations required to make hyperspace jumps, though she's apparently never been off her little desert planet. This is not a good compelling character this is simply lazy writing.

So yes Star Wars is dead and yes these new horribly conceived & written characters do nothing to revitalize it. Therefore it should've just been left dead instead of digging it up just to take a massive shit all over it.

 

The lack of respect can easily be seen as a factor of him succumbing to the dark side. Same with him being an overconfident brat. So you expected Vader to be great as a youthful jedi and he wasn't. Ok, that must be a disappointment. Is it completely illogical? I don't think so.

 

Another thing that bothers me (and I've seen this meme go around actually) to me the Jedi actually seem like bad guys in the Prequels. Everything so prim and proper. They're total conformist do-gooder schmucks. Everybody look the same, talk the same. Order, order, order. Don't smoke those "death sticks," certainly not.

Fun is goodness and light, right? Do the Jedi have ANY fun? Evidently not, from the looks of it. IMO they should have been a looser affiliate of kickass renegades who kicked ass. Not some holy order of law and civil obedience. Look how different Yoda is. In the original trilogy, he's kind of bumbling and fun, not taking things so seriously. Search your heart, you know it to be true. Then in the Prequels...Jesus Christ, don't fucking offend uppity Yoda. Do your rosary on time or get out.

 

The Jedi in the Prequels are like 17th Century Brits doing teatime. Such pricks. So maybe I'm wrong after all and Darth was needed to bring order and a bit of kick ass to the Force and everything makes sense. Darth is some darkness you can't ignore. I just wish he had been darker. In the original trilogy Obi Wan says he was more man than machine. I would have loved it if that had been the case, with the Emperor basically turning Darth into his own personal robot slave.

Even with the killing of younglings...I didn't find that that shocking, really. I just don't think Jake what's his name is able to convey that kind of darkness.

 

You're entitled to your opinion (goes without saying). What annoys me is when opinions are put as fact. So, you're done with it and/or wish the franchise was done. Fine. You're inevitable conclusion that its dead...: ridicilous in all its objectivity. But as they say: haters gonna hate

 

'Death sticks'... FFS George had to give it the least creative name he could possibly think of.
Why didn't he just call it crystallaine or marimacco or even just an acronym?

He'll spend millions on ugly space-car chases and shapeshifting faces, but won't take 10 minutes to come up with something better than 'Death Sticks'.

Unbelievable.

 

Be good little boys and girls. Don't smoke those negative cigarettes. *rolls eyes* I'm surprised the Prequels didn't have a tribute to kale.

 

What really baffles me is that nobody actually called George out on any of it. Seriously... how did Ewan MacGregor get through that scene without saying something like 'ummm... George? Maybe we could come up with something better here...'. Were Natalie Portman and Hayden Christensen just too young to tell George that complaining about your best friend, complaining about the Jedi council, complaining about how unfair everything is, complaining about sand... doesn't make women like you? Oh, and also the whole mass murder thing. Racist Padme married a guy who confessed to murdering sandpeople (and specifically mentioned killing the women and the children too), but then couldn't believe it when he killed 'younglings'? Ummmm....

I get that none of these movies are 'perfect', but in the originals and the sequels, at least the characters have charm and energy, and don't just whine and complain about each other all the time... also, if they suspect that something is going to go horribly wrong (like say, training some slave kid they feel really weird about, or giving that kid a place on the council, or whatever), they don't just go ahead and do it anyways.

 

Oddly enough, one thing I liked about the Last Jedi the first time I saw it was the promise that they might somehow contextualize (ie. justify the existence of) the prequels and the sequels a little better. Luke becomes the catalyst for revitalizing a Jedi Order that had already withered by the time Palpatine came along. He correctly sees how dogmatic they had become and blames this, along with his own missteps, for the failure of the New Republic. He sees that the rebuilding of what was already there is not enough; for there to be stability there needs to be openness to change. That would have fit in with Lucas' original vision for the sequel trilogy to be about the rebuilding of the republic and would help establish a grand arc connecting all 9 movies.

Of course, they ruined that by killing Luke's character off...but that was almost to be expected considering how many other blunders Johnson made.

 

Why did killing him off ruin anything? Obi Wan died and still managed to introduce Luke to Yoda and then later on even retconned the whole Vader story from beyond the grave.

 

How are any of the aforementioned examples opinion? Anyone who has even a basic grasp of writing & storytelling would acknowledge each & every character in the last two films as being poorly conceived & written. As to the "story arcs" of the films themselves I fail to see how calling them out for their exceptionally overt failings is opinionated either. Making one film an almost carbon copy of one that already exists & making the rule of the second one to "subvert expectations" does not equal quality storytelling. Yes subversion in a story can be done masterfully but that isn't what happened with TLJ.

Yet more examples of these facts....

Character Development of Luke vs Character Development of Rey:

Please note that I am only referencing Luke as he was portrayed in the first 3 films.

Luke Skywalker was a simple farm boy living on a desert planet with his aunt & uncle. Occasionally he would show strange & seemingly above average talents, such as being able to expertly navigate through Beggar's Canyon & bullseye rats with his T-16. He didn't know why he was so capable other than that his father had been a great pilot as well & likely passed on his skills in some way to Luke. His aunt & uncle knew why he actually had said skills but were afraid of him following in his father's footsteps & therefore refrained from telling him the real story.

Luke, due to unrelated circumstances, suddenly found himself thrust into a war that he wanted nothing to do with. Initially he tried to shirk this newfound responsibility but upon discovering his aunt & uncle dead he took upon his shoulders the mantle which he had been given & rose to the occasion.

He like any adventurous young man often gave into his compulsive nature & this led him to fail miserably in his first battle against Darth Vader. During said battle he also discovered that Vader was his father & the turmoil such a revelation caused led him to grow & become a far wiser man by the time of ROTJ. Instead of abandoning his father to the darkness Luke clung to the belief that Vader could be saved and thus we get the entire plot of ROTJ. Redemption & forgiveness. Yes Luke accomplished many great things during the course of his 3 movies but he almost never did it alone (except facing Palpatine & Vader at the end of TESB & ROTJ)& he often failed. It was Luke's unwavering hope & his unquenchable optimism that made him such a compelling character.

Now Rey....ugh
Born into a scavengers life on a desert planet. No prior knowledge of how to do anything except survive & scavenge, yet somehow she can literally pick up anything & be instantly good at it. Fly a ship for the first time? Got it. Instantly understand Wookie? Got it. Know how to fix a problem on a heavily modified starship she's never before been anywhere near ( better even than the guy who's been working on that ship for 30+ years)??? Yep got that too. Without any prior knowledge of the Force knows how to Jedi mind trick & expertly use a lightsaber. Better than not only a Force reared young man but a Jedi master with over 30 years of experience under his belt....do I really need to go on?

Luke evolved into a powerful space wizard over the course of 3 movies & many defeats, failures, trials & tribulations.

Rey was instantly a powerful space wizard. Ready made no assembly required.... She has had no defeats, no failures, no trials, no tribulations....

This is all fact. There can be no denying the obvious lack of character development when comparing Luke & Rey. More effort was put into the ewoks as characters than was put into Rey....

This little ( or not so little) comparison is a microcosm of the films as whole stories. The same innate lack of development that Rey suffers from plagues the new films as well. The directors obviously don't give a shit about what they're writing, just about how much money they can bring in off it.

Then again maybe I just expect too much from movies these days. Maybe I should do like most & be satisfied with big shit, big explosions, & big effects. Hard to be dissatisfied then right?

 

Luke's conflicted feelings about the Jedi were not popular with fans. Abrams will want to distance himself as much as possible from the direction Johnson was going in. The fascinating question that there might have been an endless cycle of "light rising and dark to meet it", a cycle that needs to be broken for there to truly be balance, could be ignored in favour of a more classic, Manichean story now that Luke is gone and they don't need to continue exploring those questions. Rey has the Old Jedi texts, which she could wrestle with in an interesting way, trying to figure how the Jedi went wrong and what was missing about their approach, but I doubt it. Fans don't want more decontstruction, they want the old mythology to be reinvigorated. Abrams would fear his approach would come across as deconstruction, as "spitting" on everything that fans love (which is what Johnson was perceived as doing).

Sure, Luke will probably be back as a force ghost. But I don't think they'll want to dwell on a lot of Johnson's more unpopular decisions now that they have no reason to. They can rush into a safe, predictable confrontation between Ren and Rey. Out of fear of turning off more fans (though those who are still left are probably loyal to the end, anyway), Abrams will lose out on the chance to make the best of what he still has and finish off the sequel trilogy in a way that is truly satisfying - in a way justifies the decision to make these new films.

I really hope I'm wrong, but it would take a genius to pull all the threads of the uniquely tangled mess that is the Star Wars saga together in Episode IX.

 

Well that's pretty harsh.
So why do you think Disney is determined to alienate the fans and ruin Star Wars by hiring people who don't have 'even a basic grasp of writing & storytelling'?
Do you think the real money is in making movies that people get melodramatically upset over?

 

That would have been a good idea. I would still find the prequels pretty unbearable, but at least it would have made sense. Somewhat...'cause some things that happen in the prequels are just contradicted by things Obi Wan says in the original trilogy.

 

I don't think Disney is necessarily trying to alienate the fans. I just don't think quality has been a major aspect in the filmmaking industry in a very long time. Also if you're lumping me in with the melodramatically upset please don't. I am not upset by these so called films. I simply feel people should hold their films & those that make them to higher standards.

 

Beatin, you're exaggerated conclusion about the whole franchise is an opinion i can't go along with. It stems from personal dislike and seemingly an urge to tell others that they're wrong for still digging this franchise. Like its an objective statement that it is dead. Which is obviously far from the real case

Your statements about the details of the Disney movies and characters are of course tainted with opinion as well. I don't know why you would deny that. It's not a problem or something. Btw, i agree with several things you conveyed about it. That's also not it. I just disagree with your conclusion about the franchise as a whole. Its the same with several other topics you expressed a strong opinion on actually, like society for example. I see and acknowledge where youre coming from but rigidly disagree with your conclusions. Should be no issue. Even if you see them as fact (kind of ridicilous though, imho)

 

It seems to me that you're dismissing TLJ based on your own theories about what will happen in IX, which are in turn based on your cynicism about Disney/JJ
Abrams/movies in general.

I think they will do what they think is best for the franchise and the overall story.

I disagree... I think they left the story in a really good place and I don't see a 'mess' at all. This is pretty much exactly where the story should be at the end of act 2.

 

Based on what criteria?

 

How are the statements I made about Rey or those in charge of the military opinionated? I offered factual explanations for the lack of real character development in both cases. Also I didn't realize there was any issue other than the issue of not acknowledging evidence presented for the foundation of my arguments

 

Based upon the criteria of competent storytelling, compelling fleshed out characters, the development of those characters over the course of the story, etc.