Spitting on Vietnam Soldiers

If anyone was spitting it was the wanna be hippies we knew them and had nothing to do with them.

Peace

 

Uhmm, according to you: "if you were under me and moved you were fair game and payed for it".

Meaning to say, that women and children need not have been trying to shoot down a pilot, neither did they need to look like anything, when they got killed.

All they had to do was simply move.
You could have even imagined that the even the dead moved. LOL



Note:
I am merely reposting this comment I posted earlier. It seems our Vietnam Veteran member here, silverhippy is still suffering from some post-traumatic shock disease or amnesia and has some difficulty dealing with some comprehension issues ...

 

Requoting yourself hmmm running out of words ? I answered you the last time maybe you are having a hard time understanding. I really like your ongoing Quote that you seem to use all the time death from above you like that don't you ? Again envy ?. You people are not hippies just wanna bes have fun with yourselves you are fake just like so many others who claimed to be hippies we laughed at them then and I still do, you were or are not now a hippy just a fake. You would not be so full of hate if you were. I don't hate you just feel sorry for you.

Peace

 

Hmmm... It seems you're terribly depressed.
Seems like you're going through one of those "flashbacks", perhaps attributed to your post-traumatic stress syndrome...

I'm surprised you can bear the thought of having killed so many people and yet forum threads such as these got your panties in a roll. LOL.

Do yourself and your loved ones a favor and do something positive. Be a winner for a change.
Get yourself an appointment with your psychiatrist.

 

LOL. I love reading how you brag about your crimes in detail.
Got any more war crimes to confess? lol.





Tell us again, how many women and children did you kill, uhm... silverhippy.

 

see? again, rather than answering the question, which is a perfectly legitimate question, you resort to insults yet again! And you might want to clean up your grammar a bit.
A good point has been made; you argue that you didn't do anything wrong, but yet you killed anything that moved. nice. And rather than addressing that, you attack us and call us wannabes.

 

My older brother returned from Nam shortly before I graduated from high school. He was a draftee. He served as a LRRP in the delta and was well decorated. To this day he claims that at that time (1969) we were winning the war. After he got back, he flat out told me, "Don't go", so he obviously wasn't pro war. I didn't go and took steps to avoid service until the lottery started and I drew a good number. He did tell me a few times over the years, and without much elaboration, about being greeted at the airport in L.A., upon completing his tour, by protesters who jeered and cursed him as his welcome home. So protesters did "waste" their time on returnees at the airport. He didn't ever mention being spat on. He has some horrible stories from the war but doesn't talk about them much. Lubrication is required. He does admit that GIs did some things that were wrong. Some of that happens in war. He is not proud of everything he did but is proud to have done his duty as he saw it. I'm proud of him too. It may be true that the war was a wrong war, but there is enough disagreement on that issue that I don't think there can be any moral judgements against those who felt they were rightly serving their country. There does come a point where the line is crossed (often a fuzzy line) when a countrys actions are so wrong that each individual bears guilt for any participation in those actions, the Nazi's being the prime example, but I don't think Vietnam reached that point. Of course we all should share some guilt or pride for all of our countrys actions. I respect silverhippy's service and thank him for it. I will not judge his actions during the war. Only he knows if his service was honerable. I will assume it was.

 

Thank you, I did my best I did not want to be there I really didn't. I flew missions we did not go out to look for a fight with just anyone we had targets, landing zones, pinned down fire bases. My words were taken out of context, when I say you were fair game I meant in the middle of action. Not just anybody. It was awful and no one liked to do these things but it was war. No one got killed just for the hell of it, it was in action. And for those that still think it was wrong to fight back I say this there are no hippies in fox holes. An old saying I just changed one word. It means you do what it takes to live.

Peace

 

Point taken, my grammar sucks, and I don't know what he was asking. You say I use insults ? What has been tossed at me ? I don't hate anyone, but I am getting a lot of hate directed at me.

Peace

 

OK, where do I start?

I have read the last 20 pages or more of this thread and it's obvious that both sides believe rather strongly in their convictions. But what good is going over all this doing?

I don't believe in violence and cannot understand how anybody in this day and age would volunteer for National Service. I do however feel sorry for those around the world who are drafted into, or forced or complete terms of National Service. That's not to say that they need my pity, nor even appreciate it.

Many of the soldiers who unwillingly participated in wars, whether they were supposedly justified wars(like WW2) or unjustified(like Vietnam) had to endure the most terrible of conditions. Many have sleepless nights and regrets and nightmares, many more have accepted what they did and moved on, some becoming vehement anti-war activists.

What I don't understand is what the constant baiting(even trolling) of posters like wbld is supposed to actually accomplish. While Skip, silverhippy, orison, and polecat, amongst others seem to be trying to have some sort of intelligent reflection/debate about the times before, during and after the war, wbld's purpose other than providing some informative links to atrocities, seems to be to insult posters, repeat himself over and over again and turn the conversation into a slagging war.

I personally think the war was wrong, like almost every war throughout history, but had I been around during the time of returning vets, I would not have spat at a single one of them. I would however probably have stood at the gates of the pentagon/white house, spitting at those who were directly responsible for the terrible loss of innocent lives during those years.

Peace.

 

yes. Someone who finally gets it. Some of these people really think we wanted to be there and blame us for what went on. Believe me we wanted nothing to do with it, we were drafted. At least your head is in the right place. BTW I spent a lot of time in Thailand, a base called NKP right on the Makon River. Great place the people were great to us.

Peace

 

It's just the younger generation, silver. It's hard for people the understand war and what it's like to be there when you don't want to be. It's too foreign a concept for a lot of younger people... being in a situation where you either get killed or you kill. There aren't a lot of options once you are over there. A personal friend of mine ended up spending sometime with a VC soldier he spared when they were both out on patrol in the jungle. They both had weapons drawn and no one else was around... neither one of them wanted to be there, they ended up just getting high and putting marks on their helmets so if they were in a fire fight they could identify each other.

Ultimately, my friend relayed coordinates that didn't reflect his VC friends group position and likewise his VC friend relayed incorrect coordinates back to his camp to keep my friend and his group safe.

The first thing that any member of the younger generation needs to understand is that unless you've been to war, it's incredibly ignorant to think you understand it. All I know after all my conversations with veterans is that I will never understand that place.

If I wanted to take issue with you disagreeing and still going, conforming to the man and all that, not being on the protest lines... well that's one thing. But it's foolish to think that everyone that found themselves in Vietnam wanted to be there. Don't let it get you down silverhippy, it's just misplaced anger on behalf of certain people.

It doesn't make them bad hippies, they just haven't turned on the love inside yet. I'm happy to see that despite everything you've been through you haven't lost yourself. Peace.

 

You'd have to think about what the soldiers went through too.. think.. if you were forced to go to war, to the point where you didn't give a shit about anything anymore and just wanted to get the hell out, to almost the point of insanity... NOT TO MENTION you're armed with a gun.. dont you think that would end up with some kind of negative action?!

I can somewhat understand why the soldiers did what they did, some may not have wanted to kill anyone at first.. but by the end of the war/conflict they probably went batshit insane and killed anyone and everyone they saw fit

 

War generally accomplishes nothing big. Look at WW2, 45 million died and what was the world ended with: billions of destroyed buildings and landscapes, ruined families, still lots of hate and a newly created racism calling all germans nazis (experienced first hand)
And don't say "well that's only WW2" because I could use lots more examples.

This argument...what is the argument over anyway? I just see a lot of bashing of people...is stupid.

WAR IS STUPID

Let's settle this easily, I think those (skip, XbloodynailpolishX, wbld, and whoever else(me)) want to hear the vets say "Yes I killed and I am ashamed of it"

Just admit that killing and especially your killings, you seem reluctant to do that, were wrong. And stop being so proud of it, and stop sidetracking the main issue here.

I say we all make a vow right here:
We will never participate in, or support in any way, a war.
I vow it, signed
Stephen McCaughey

We need to stop funding wars, especially this Iraq War. OVER 500 BILLION, WITH A "B", DOLLARS HAVE BEEN SPENT ON THIS WAR( http://www.nationalpriorities.org/costofwar_home ). To do what, destroy. Do you know how much good can be done with that money. If people stopped wars world hunger would be history and same with world poverty. "Unfortunatly" those giant war mongors must give up receiving blood money, poor fuckers. Research to new and better ways of killing will be over with. Hey, we could stop the manufacture of guns and bombs.

IMAGINE PEACE
IMAGINE LOVE

 

Im sorry steve its not that easy to say "I killed and Im ashamed of it"..
While your still young and I dont think that anyone not engaged in war will be able to understand it either.
While I may of killed so many as 600 people, How many did I help live taking those 600 lives. While my number isnt accurate, Im just making a point.. Had you been engaged in combat you would understand.

I wish I didnt have to kill, but Im sorry that there was nobody else that would stand up to protect other defenceless people..
Should you see what a difference I made while serving in Iraq..

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/12/world/middleeast/12basra.html?_r=1&ref=todayspaper&oref=slogin
Just two months ago, he said, masked men in military uniforms walked into the packed dining room and abducted a businessman at gunpoint. The man was never seen again, and the restaurant closed.

Now, however, customers who fled that evening are pressing the 34-year-old owner to stay open later at night, so they can enjoy their unaccustomed freedom from the gangs, which once banned the loud Arabic pop music now blaring from Shaker’s loudspeakers.

Therefore I dont feel bad about what I did. No matter how people try to say I killed for no reason..
As many as those would like to compair the two Iraq & Vietnam. Im not seeing the simularities. But then to Im not looking into the politcal aspects as much as you guys. Im not here to put hippies down or bash any member of the forum. Im retired now as I just go to work and smoke my weed. I try not to relive to many memories and I make jokes and stuff to combat some of the memories Id rather not share, While tearful at the moment there are somethings in the world some of you all are better off not seeing... or hearing about. War is Hell on earth and not for the faint hearted. .

 

I'm not talking about the reason for killing, I'm saying do you have any guilt for those murders?

 

Murder is killing someone without just cause, then I didnt Murder anyone. if a police officer kills a criminal is that Murder? No. Its not = If there is evidence that something was not followed correctly as to procedure, There is a investigation that will uncover a unjustified shooting of a suspect and that happens all the time. Once again Im not a bait fish and I cant be drawn into a Controversy over what you concider a just and unjust kill. My duty was to follow orders and that was to retake control of areas occupied by insurgents.

Insergent are just brainwashed teens and young adults..They say they are fighting for allah but they are not/ they are robbers and theifs and nothing else but looters and thats what they basically do.
insurgent disrupt the infrastructure The shadowy insurgency is a fractured movement made up of distinct groups of Sunnis, Shiites and foreign fighters, some of them aligned and some not. But the shift in the attack patterns strongly suggests that some branch of the insurgency is carrying out a systematic plan to cripple Baghdad's ability to provide basic services for its six million citizens and to prevent the fledgling government from operating.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/21/international/middleeast/21sabotage.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
So all they are doing is making it harder for the peaceful people to live..
if you read the whole article youll see that the insugents attack refinerys and not export crude oil they are screwing up their own ways of making gasoline and shit for themselfs.
my last time in Iraq was 2002, things have changed I guess.
Since I made peace with my God many time over theres nothing for me to be sorry for...

 

Steve, war is stupid, I'm with you there. But anyone whose been there certainly doesn't need to apologize to me, or in public, I'm not the moral police. They need to make their own inner peace and come to terms with their actions on their own.

You, like a lot of others, can't seem to fathom the battle field. Idealism and reality come face to face. You're in the desert/jungle/trench/home/streets WHEREVER, you're looking at someone and they're looking at you and only one of you is going home with all your faculties, maybe neither.

It's not like protesting the military on home soil, you can't put a flower in someone's gun barrel on the battlefield. But choices in life are what lead you into that situation.

As the Tao te Ching puts it: "The forceful do not choose their place of death"

 

No Steve I feel no guilt. I feel sorry I had to do it, and sorry I was there. But guilt for living thats crazy. I guess you think I should have died. Thanks I love you too.

Peace

 

It was either go to war and kill to survive, or not go to war and go to jail. Simple as that. Children have a hard time grasping that thought, but lets say Steve, that there is a draft up here in Canada after you turn 18, you would have to go to war, or face jail time. And if you do go to war, you just can't stand around holding a gun, it's either you kill them or they kill you first.