Spirituality without faith

Discussion in 'Existentialism' started by Deidre, May 20, 2018.

  1. wooleeheron

    wooleeheron Brain Damaged Lifetime Supporter

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    Civilized religion, in general, are less salty than their primitive counterparts. A Taoist tribal celebration can resemble a state fair, while civilized religions are more abstract and emphasis beauty over humor. That is their compromise with the wealthy, because their religion is the last holdout for them to retain any sense of organization among the peasants. When the smallest among them laughed at the naked man in the parade, one of his guards cut her head off. They have stunted senses of humor.
     
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  2. Astray

    Astray Visitor

    Clarification came to me when I replaced the word God for Truth.

    People are basically fear-based. Fear causes deception (unreal). Unconditional love causes truth (the real).
    God/Truth only accepts truth as real, and does not acknowledge the unreal. God acknowledges whatever is true and real in us. For most of us there is not much of that there.
    God certainly won't give what is unreal a day in the sun.
     
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  3. Deidre

    Deidre Follow thy heart

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    What’s always been interesting to me, not always in a positive way, is how religions differ from culture to culture. So it kind of begs the question, is religion really just a version of one’s interpretation of it, largely culturally driven?
     
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  4. That's bullshit. There is truth in lies. A real human condition that is inescapable for us, and if it's not inescapable for God then what does he really know about us? People are afraid, yes. Mostly that they are unloved in some fashion. To be unloved and unwanted is the greatest fear of man.

    To say that all of this pain and suffering is unreal and God just doesn't acknowledge it...well that explains a few things, I guess. Like, for instance, why God allows it all to happen. For us it is very real, though.

    And I don't find people to be unreal simply because they're afraid, and unconditional love is great in theory, but on a human scale would just murder everything it means to be human. You want to rebel? Oh you can't because everyone loves you unconditionally. How empty.

    Just make everything about Jesus, and so long as everything goes right in Heaven he's our hero. Poor Jesus if anything ever goes wrong, though. That's how fickle people are.
     
  5. Astray

    Astray Visitor

    A truth in a lie is deceptive as a whole and therefore unreal/untrue.

    The greatest fear is being judged, especially unfavourably. From this is the fear of rejection, then the fear of segregation, then abandonment, and finally annihilation.
    If one was not fearful of being judged, non of the others would follow. To overcome the fear of judgement is to know and accept your truth. Fear, in this case, is about being found out, exposed and vulnerability.

    All fear causes tension in a person, such as anger, resentment, revenge, hate, doubt, anxiety, depression, etc.

    To say that one fears being unloved points to a need to be validated. The only thing that always seeks validation, because it really is invalid, is the ego (a fabricated story about self). A false-self.
    What do people love about a person? Usually it is their story about life and how they portray it. It has nothing to do with that persons truth, because most are not willing to be that exposed and vulnerable.
    On top of that. most portray a lie in the hope of gaining some so-called love. The truth is, it is explotation of self and other. Nothing loving about that.

    Pain is inevitable, but suffering is optional. Suffering is a story of not coping with the pain. They are not accepting the pain for what it is. They don't see the truth of it, only their own fabricated story about it. Once you accept it, the truth about it, physically and or emotionally, becomes clear.

    Yes, the story of pain and suffering can seem real, depending on how much we invest in it. For instance, a person working in the garden scratches their leg and bleeds. But they are to engrossed in their gardening to notice it. God allows us to use our free-will. All our suffering is based on self not coping, it is not based on the truth.

    In this world, humanity is mostly fear-based, as mentioned before. If everybody loved you unconditionally, they love what is true in you. If you want to rebel, they would let you. It would only be empty if you were seeking some sort of ego-validation from being a rebel. How can a person rebel against unconditional love? There is nothing conditional about it to rebel against.

    Yes, you are right. Most people are caught up in the story about Jesus, and what he said, but hardly anybody lives it. He said "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me". This says that those who live a way of truth comes to God/Truth. The more truth-filled they become the closer they get to God/Truth/The Greater Reality.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 9, 2018
  6. Monkey Boy

    Monkey Boy Senior Member

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    I used to care a lot about what people thought of me and tried to impress them. One day someone that I highly respected and looked up to changed his tune about me overnight and it kind of woke me up. At that point I made a decision not to put so much emphasis on what other people think, because it's just opinions that can change. It's like building your house on sand. I need a firm foundation.
     
  7. Deidre

    Deidre Follow thy heart

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    Amen!
     
  8. McFuddy

    McFuddy Visitor

    I think you nailed it.
     
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  9. Astray, why don't you stop speaking for God, you trite little human?
     
  10. Astray

    Astray Visitor

    A fellow was stuck on his rooftop in a flood. He was praying to God for help.

    Soon a man in a rowboat came by and the fellow shouted to the man on the roof, "Jump in, I can save you."

    The stranded fellow shouted back, "No, it's OK, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me."

    So the rowboat went on.

    Then a motorboat came by. "The fellow in the motorboat shouted, "Jump in, I can save you."

    To this the stranded man said, "No thanks, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith."

    So the motorboat went on.

    Then a helicopter came by and the pilot shouted down, "Grab this rope and I will lift you to safety."

    To this the stranded man again replied, "No thanks, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith."

    So the helicopter reluctantly flew away.

    Soon the water rose above the rooftop and the man drowned. He went to Heaven. He finally got his chance to discuss this whole situation with God, at which point he exclaimed, "I had faith in you but you didn't save me, you let me drown. I don't understand why!"

    To this God replied, "I sent you a rowboat and a motorboat and a helicopter, what more did you expect?"
     
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  11. McFuddy

    McFuddy Visitor

    An oldie but goodie. There's a similar one involving a man praying to win the lottery.
     
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  12. Stop speaking for God and stop preaching to me like you're some kind of authority on the subject.
     

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