Spanish army comes back from Irak

Discussion in 'Europe' started by migle, May 10, 2004.

  1. migle

    migle Senior Member

    I don't know if this is the right place to post this thread, but i'd like to know about what do you (the european people) think about the new Spanish goverment president decission about taking the troops out of Irak right now.
    I'm Spanish and I agree with this decission, because i don't know if you knew but when USA and their bloody stupid president began that illegal war and Spanish last government supported them, there was the biggest demonstration till that date against the war (one million people in madrid) and the goverment didn't hear people voice, and put Spain in a illegal war and in front of the UN resolutions.
    So i'd like to know your thoughts about this.
    Thank you.
     
  2. borut16

    borut16 Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

    I have to agree, if people don't suport it, then government shouldn't do it. However, people's minds are often manipulated by media and other influences.
    I agree that there should be few troops till situation in Iraq and Afghanistan and also in Israel(Israel - Pacistan conflict) normalises, but I'm strongly against wars to change politics for one's(even country's) own good. I mean, I agree that Taliban regime was wrong, but after they put down that regime, they should leave them alone(help with normalising, though). The problem is that it's all in their culture -> conflict. Perhaps it would be the best to leave them alone, I'm not sure where I stand on this; but I'm against wars, they should set 'right' politics through diplomatic channels, in my opinion.
    I hope that Spanish leaving from Iraq stars major leaving of other countries.(Slovenia is the only country which has just joined NATO few months ago and didn't sendANY of its troops to Iraq; but yea we're too small to even send anything, fortunatelly)
    However, few troops should stay in Iraq just so things normalise, but the situation now is just not right.
    But that's just my opinion on that.
    Love,
    Borut
     
  3. Flowerian

    Flowerian Senior Member

    I think its a very good thing that the Spanish army doesn't stay in Iraq. It the war of the Americans, not the one of us, the Europeans. But I also think our engagement in Afghanistan and Kosovo is very importatn. But you can see a difference: The European troops which are there try very hard to respect the culture of people there - the result: Within 3 years, there had only been one attack against German soldiers in Afghanistan and none in the Kosovo (where we are since 5 years). Now compare this number to the attacks on American soldiers in Iraq. One shouldn't wonder about all those attacks if you look at the way the GIs treat the Iraqis.
     
  4. Flowerian

    Flowerian Senior Member


    I think you forgot Germany and the Benelux countries ;) And I'm sure there are some more Nato countries which don't have soldiers there.
     
  5. borut16

    borut16 Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

    typing mistake:) I meant to say, the only country of these who've just joined NATO few months ago. I'll edit this now.
     
  6. Flowerian

    Flowerian Senior Member


    OK then you're right ;)
     
  7. Penny

    Penny Supermoderaginaire

    As everyone knows by now (I think!) I'm French but I have been living in Spain (Murcia) for a while. I'm so glad that Aznar isn't ruling anymore... he's an idiot, a LIAR more than anything else and licks the American government's ass.
    It's a great thing that Zapatero is prime minister now, if I could have voted (actually, being a EU resident, I think I could have but I'm not sure! I'm not very good at that kind of things...) I would have voted for him too, and it's good that the Spanish soldier are back from Irak. Everyone should be back, from every America, from England, from everywhere! That war was supposed to be over for a year... and I don't think that bringing the army back is gonna make the Islamists send bombs to us... like Bush seems to believe!
     
  8. Flowerian

    Flowerian Senior Member

    The problem is: If the USA now moves their troops away from Iraq, the country will fall into total anarchy. More than now. It will become an islamistic state, perhaps even worse than Afghanistan under the Taliban regime. Now that the Americans are in the Iraq they must stay there until the end.





    Mais Madame, votre contenance, s'il vous plait! :eek: (Was that right? Didn't speak French for a year ;))
     
  9. Manolao

    Manolao Member

    uh... I am pretty surprised to read that!!!! I wish our government would do the same...
     
  10. moominmamma

    moominmamma Member

    Sighs, as I am from the UK, the Spanish decision will NOT happen here...We have President Bushs' poodle as our prime minister......
     
  11. borut16

    borut16 Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

    BUt aren't there elections in June this year, in UK?
    Cause as I've heard, Blair is losing his popularity slowly(just like mr. Bush)
     
  12. Flowerian

    Flowerian Senior Member

    I'm not sure, but I think the elections in UK this June are not on a national level
     
  13. borut16

    borut16 Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

    'Parties to get into parliament' kind of elections only? I'm not sure.
     
  14. Flowerian

    Flowerian Senior Member

    No, I think only the politicians of the towns and villages are elected... hmm, I just don't know how to say in English, we here in Germany would say "communal elections", but I don't know if the English "communal" is the same as the German "kommunal", might be it means something completely different :D
     
  15. moonydancer

    moonydancer Member

    hmmmmmmm.............i think if everyone could vote, mrBlairasssucker certainly wouldn't win. Unfortunatly people don't tend to see how voting is crucial.



    thank god i live in france even if chirac is a yoghourt.iful.
     
  16. borut16

    borut16 Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

    community elections, then? I think the word is community, hehe:D
     
  17. Flowerian

    Flowerian Senior Member


    Don't know, well what I mean: Elections only on level of towns and villages and so on, not on a national level. The government of UK won't be elected that day :D Damn English ;)
     
  18. borut16

    borut16 Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

    Hehe, dictators used to change the date of elections for years;). Just kidding on this one.
     
  19. migle

    migle Senior Member

    Thank you all for your posting, i got very surprised about a great amount of posts in just one day. And i've found out that you think like us here in spain.
    And i would like to clear that in last general elections, most of people didn't vote Aznar (PP party) because of their behaveour after the 11M terrorist attack in Madrid, because they tryed to hide the information telling on TV that it was an attack from ETA when they had enough evidences to confirm that the attack came from islamist terrorists.
    So people decided not to vote them anymore. First time i felt that democratic system that rules us can work some times.
     
  20. moominmamma

    moominmamma Member

    Originally Posted by Flowerian
    No, I think only the politicians of the towns and villages are elected... hmm, I just don't know how to say in English, we here in Germany would say "communal elections", but I don't know if the English "communal" is the same as the German "kommunal", might be it means something completely different [​IMG]


    Okay I am probabley not the best person to explain British politics but I wiil try:)

    In June we will have LOCAL elections which elect the local council members. We live in the city so they sit on the city council ,which meets in the city hall,and they make decisions about local schools,social housing,rubbish collections and recycling,parks and gardens etc. In non-urban areas,the council members will sit on the district council, they usually have a purpose built office, but make similar decisions to their city counter-parts.

    While some of the councillors will represent national political parties,there will also be a fair number of independants.

    The results of this election will not get rid of Tony Blair directly. If the results go badly for the ruling national party, then this is seen as a protest vote.


    I think the next national election has to be held before 2006(I am not sure on this though) The life of any parliament is limited to five years, the prime minister can call an election at any time he likes within those five years.

    I know it must seem obvious to some of you that Tony Blair should go. However , although he is not so popular in the UK now,there is not much of an alternative:( The Conservative party is in disarray(not a party I would vote for anyway) and the Liberal-Democrats don't seem to have got it together to fill the void left by the Conservatives weakness.

    Okay I think that is enough British politics for one night!

    Will be happy to answer any other questions though

    love
    Moominmamma
     

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