Socialism is what saved America.

Obama's a douchebag, but:

He has NOTHING to do with the super rich, who the fuck told you that? The jewish lobby (not the "bad guys", but still, they have always held power over diverting aid to israel) did NOT fund obama, which as them scared shitless. He funded his shit with small donations from normal people. The rich did NOT want him, they wanted someone who would deregulate everything so they could get even more filthy fucking rich.

And if a corporation is following all the laws and has good intentions..... why would they want those laws/regulations removed? Why? What could it possibly change, if they don't WANT to break the laws, if you removed the laws? Oh that's right, it would just let them fuck shit up without having to hide as much.

"before obama, back when the economy was decent and when I didn't pay much attention....." classic line, right there. You didn't pay attention to 8 years of bush running the country into the ground, but woke up when power changed hands and we started reaping what bush had sown. Obama didn't make things a WHOLE lot better, but some things, other than that, he's basically bush's third, blacker term.

You don't know what conservatives or liberals are, or what needs to be fixed, much less how to do it.

"deregulation" is code language for turning this into the new wild west. And the rich are driving abhrams tanks customized with lay-Z boys and entertainment systems, and the rest of us are trying to hold them of with squirt guns. AND they've convinced a bunch of suckers (read:fawkes) to tell us all how they're actually trying to HELP and PROTECT us with their tanks.

It's pretty easy to bitch and moan about obama, now that we DON'T have mccain.

So you don't like obama because he wants taxes for rich, and not for corporations? but I thought corporations should have NO regulations, how do taxes work into that? The rich are rich BECAUSE of corporations, if there's less to gain (ie, less CEO bonuses of millions of dollars for picking your nose) they won't work as hard to fuck people over. Sounds like the same tax, to me, with a slightly different name/rung on the ladder. And either way, are you saying that poor people should be taxed the same way rich are? uh-huh, you just lost....

Also, you call the left looney and liberal and whatnot over and over...... Are you so blind that you think there's a "left" or a "right"? They are doing the same thing for the same people. Some concentrate on ruining slightly different things at different rates, but it currently is a "lesser evil" situation. And with obama, we got that lesser evil: the country won't go down the shitter quite as fast, even if the water doesn't stop swirling.

 

Obama is really a liberal justice minded when it comes to progressive thinking on the subject of the economical propriety. The problem is we don't recognize our proprietors anymore. If we regress to socialism for the realization of the just inequality of the status quo maybe that can happen for the knowledge of what incentive can do; YOU CAN? But the progressive society doesn't come about that way anymore.

 

Amen, brother. You ain't tellin no lies.

 

RooRshack,

Yeah, back in the day Obama WAS funded by small donations with a grassroots campaign from people who thought they were going to get change. What they got was more corporatist BS. You are right, the rich did not want him, especially those that are ethical. But those that are not ethical quickly figured out how to play him. All those companies that get waivers, friends of Obama I guess. I don't get no ObamaCare waiver. Small family owned businesses like farms are getting killed by the death tax when the patriarch dies because they can't pay the death tax. But Warren Buffett loves this set up because he can sell them tax-free life insurance to prevent such a disaster or he can buy the property at a fire sale price after the death.

Bush was running the country into the ground, and Obama hasn't made things a whole lot better? What? The economy was good in 2004, 2005. And what has Obama made any better, even a little bit? Where? What? Obama has taken what Bush did wrong (spending) and multiplied it.

When you say they are all doing the same things to the same people, that is what I mean by the corporatists like Obama and Bush. Crony Capitalism, they help out their cronies, and screw everybody else. And you gotta have money to be Obama's crony.

So, RooRshack, we don't have enough regulations, huh? We need the government looking over our shoulder to make sure we are painting our house correctly, feeding our kids correctly, filling out stacks and stacks of forms at work to make sure we are hiring and treating our employees fairly, not polluting, filing taxes correctly and everything else to satisfy the alphabet soup of Gmen. Some of these regulations even contradict themselves. In some states the EPA says you have to lay down plastic when painting the outside of a house so the paint doesn't get in the ground. But OSHA says you can't do that, because the ladder could slip. So damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Obama is a LESSER EVIL?!!? That whom? Hilter? Chavez? I WISH we had McCain right now. McCain was useless and weak, but at least he was not an ideologue bent on destruction.

 

We DO need more regulation. There should be virtually no regulation on private lives, small business, etc. When businesses reach certain sizes or certain levels of pollution/waste per certain levels of production (ie. they could hold of conforming to other regulations by being very efficent, and still be larger than wasteful guys who are being regulated) they DO need strict regulations, as things grow the power and greed take over and things get FUCKED, and one of those things that gets fucked is the environment, and another is the consumer, and another is the economy. But at least mr. CEO can sit on his ass and get "bonuses" in the multiple hundreds of millions of dollars for things done by a whole army of people who have never even met him.

Obama came in just as things got really bad, and it's like being handed the captains hat just as the bilgepump fails: well shit, now no matter how well you do something, the ship's sinking, and everyone goes "BUT IT WORKED BEFORE HE WAS CAPTAIN". Well yeah, but there was also a giant squid in the bilge that the last captain wouldn't let anyone kill so the pump could be fixed.

I felt like a detailed analogy

However, my point is that, evil as some of his shit is (like healthcare-a gift to republicans, rich, and insurance companies, and they can scream about it the whole while, so in the future they can say "but we didn't WANT you to be legally forced to buy our shit". Oh, but they DID want it, they just didn't tell you they wanted it, because they knew it would happen anyway.

The EPA and OSHA both do important things, even if both of them suck dick at doing those things. The seemingly obvious answer would be to lay down plastic, with the feet of the ladder between the edges of intersecting sheets. I'm pretty sure as a foreman, I could instruct my workers to follow both those regulations to the point where an EPA and OSHA inspection would be passed, without having to make any changes between the two. Just sayin'. (and I know that was just an example, I'm just saying, the rules both make sense, even if they don't explain themselves for uncooperative people who WANT to go "I dun get it")

Don't get me wrong, things are fucked up. But you're blaming the wrong guy.

Obama has, for one thing, been blocked more on appointments than I THINK any other president in history, or more than just one maybe. The guy hasn't had a chance, really....

But despite all this, the great thing is...... fuck the economy, if what they say is true and we can just trust the market, it can be fixed very easily. Fuck the war on drugs, it's bullshit that it's going on still but when we end it, the economy can recover faster than ever, and we can pull LEO's out of their pork barrel profession and make them contributing members of society. This STILL is america, and when people wake up and smell the burning america, and band together, we STILL can put it back on track. It might require electing whole new groups to every legislative body, every executive office, but so what? we can, and eventually, WILL, do it (we need to band together-the republicans hate each other, but agree for political unity-same for democrats-independants need to support each other, instead of sucking up to the two dying whales)

 

America was founded as a commune, a Utopia. It almost collapsed.
Only when they embraced free enterprise and allowed the colonists to PROFIT from their own labor that people actually worked.

 

Umm.... This statement doesn't bear much resemblance to any particular part of history.

America was never a utopia or a commune, and never had business of the size we're talking about (the kind of wealth in question didn't EXIST in the whole nation, some of these guys paychecks are more than was circulating in the US, or in the WORLD) and it would have been viewed as obscene and these people would have been stripped of wealth and possibly life for being wanna-be monarchs of the type we'd just escaped the rule of.

Dunno what the fuck kinda history class YOU took in school.....

 

Not that I have a dog in the fight (and I’ll probably take alotta flak for the metaphor), but I'm thinking 'preacherbilly' was possibly referring to the original Jamestown settlement where everything the colonists produced, especially foodstuffs and other essentials, became community property. The problem arose when some of the colonists went off exploring, searching for treasure, and otherwise just generally jackin’ rather than contributing to the community stores by actually producing something useful. They all nearly starved to death during the first winter. After a few years the system was changed so that whatever an individual produced was basically his own – with only a small portion becoming common property of the colony. Since some colonists were good at one particular enterprise and others were good at another, a barter system developed, i.e. farmers traded with hunters, etc. That’s the history lesson I remember.

Insofar as a “utopia” is concerned, I couldn’t possibly agree with that assertion. Unless, it may have been the thinking of those doing the explorin’ and treasure huntin’ rather than cabin building, farming and hunting. If that’s the case, they certainly must have come to realize the error and either changed their thinking and started to work or made plans to catch the first boat home.

 

56olddog:
Sounds like you were schooled before history was revised to accommodate the agenda of the Left/Socialist movement. You are correct about the failure of Communalism in Jamestown, and that was not a population of more than 300 million people as exists today. Societies are made up of individuals who are socialistic creatures by nature, but being individuals first they do not conform to being or becoming a single society which diminishes their individuality and liberties, and must be imposed through the use of force when not accepted by choice.
The more effort that government concentrates on reducing or eliminating failures, the more society becomes dependent upon government, and that necessitates government taking from some or borrowing in order to give to others which after nearly a century should be obvious to those with even the simplest skills in arithmetic cannot be sustained perpetually.
Since everyone here is using a computer, maybe some time learning how to work with a spreadsheet program might be enlightening?
Google for the numbers directly from the government and if you can't see failure on the horizon approaching at an increasingly rapid pace, then all I can say is enjoy it when it happens.

 

Individual,

I’m happy that someone understood the correlation between the Jamestown issue and the issue currently at hand in the U.S. Unfortunately, most will not, or else will dismiss the idea as not applying due to population differences, economic differences, etc. Perhaps some few will know of the London Company’s backing of the venture with hopes of taking a profit from the “new world” and will equate that to the “greed” of the always evil “big corporations” of today – completely missing the fact that the first Jamestown settlers couldn’t even support themselves under the communal arrangement – much less make a profit.

We, as a people, have become so dependent on government, that only extreme measures may effectively save our nation. So many have become accustomed to having so much while producing so little that I’m not sure a turn-around is even possible. The “redistribution of wealth” that so many seem to be calling for is already happening and has been for decades.

I am a firm believer in the idea expressed by Winston Churchill when he said, "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."

One doesn’t have to look even as far as the horizon to see failure approaching at an alarming pace.

 

Over the last 50 years, since Eisenhower was President, there has been no principal reductions made to the National debt at all. During the previous 60 years, going back to 1900, there were about 7 periods of time in which the principal was reduced although only slightly. Government after Eisenhower has cited borrowing as necessary during bad times, while taking opportunity to create new or expand existing government spending programs during good times. At some point, it no longer matters how big you are, you can and will fail. While the Left seem to like to make use of the words "progress" and "change", in reality they misuse them and impede any hope of "progress" and "change" which could be beneficial to the society at large. Equality, in the sense the Left would like to achieve can only be created falsely with total disregard for the consequences brought forth and needing to be dealt with. This leads only to a society made up of the who rule and those who are ruled, or the haves and the have not.

 

awesome well written i agree

 

I think a form of reformed capitalism saved America, one of progressive taxation and child labor laws, but socialism never took place in America and arguably no place in the world on any real scale. Socialism is a hypothetical state in which workers own the means of production. A state bourgeoisie in Russia owned the means of production, and, in America, workplace democracy doesn't look like a rampant practice to me.

The problem with progressive taxation is that it was initially proposed to help pay for social safety netting, but, more and more, its used for causes that benefit corporations more than anyone else.

 

04/26/2012 - Saved, by $15,633,387,828,914.86 of debt and growing?
In the course of a year, each dollar in existence is cycled more than 15 times, with the Federal government accounting for nearly 4 cycles, not to mention that State and local governments also need to be included. Few things having intrinsic value increase in quantity, only becoming more valuable in relation to the value of what we assign to the currency our governments provide us.
Just what has Socialism saved us from? Besides having to accept personal responsibility in our lives?

 

Nope, in Communism the proletariat own the means of production. Socialism is just a precursor to Communism. And nowhere on the globe has Communism in his true form ever happened.

 

True, at least in relation to a large or modern hi-tech society.

 

So your country's socialist when it works and capitalist when it doesn't? Good to know that people aren't strangers to cognitive dissonance.

 

look many people think that Obama is an socialist,people who say this are idiots,he is an freaking democrat. And there is an big big difference beetwen democrats and socialist

1.socialists have way much better ideology that democrats.
2. why the hell do i care,im not from USA
3. oh shit i need to worrie we live in a freaking globalist world,so the USA is to blame for the world crisis,be proud of your governments now.

 

I think Obama has admitted both orally and in print that he subscribes to Marxist Socialism, and there is no way in the modern world to eliminate capitalism, at least not without the exertion of massive amounts of government force. Most every need has to be produced, and that requires labor. Few people are willing to labor for little or nothing in return.

 

The best tax is the one in which taxes the least. Regardless if it's a consumption tax, flat tax, progressive tax, etc. Taxation is simply forcibly seizing private property, and redistributing it arbitrarily according to whoever currently weilds political power. How could u possibly be in favor of that? Do u not trust your own judgement in spending your own earnings? Do you really believe that some random schmuck, by deciding what to do with your money, is going to end up benefiting you better than if you had decided for yourself? Anyone who advocates for more taxation, more control, more government, is in my eyes, greatly misinformed. Weather it be in the name of socialism, communism, "reformed capitalism", or whatever.. Statism is a failed model and should be unilaterally abhorred.

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