Socialism is superior to capitalism

I don't think that anyone who sees how polarized the US is right now would disagree with this.
Putin knows it too... that's why he is trying to aggravate the divisions.

 

Let me guess-- you're one of the people who have seen more and thought about more stuff?
Your lightbulb is 'on'?

Is it hard being such a smart, open-minded, experienced, worldly guy?

 

But Norway isn't socialist.

"In the Scandinavian countries, like all other developed nations, the means of production are primarily owned by private individuals, not the community or the government, and resources are allocated to their respective uses by the market, not government or community planning.

"While it is true that the Scandinavian countries provide things like a generous social safety net and universal healthcare, an extensive welfare state is not the same thing as socialism. [It] is actually social democracy, a system in which the government aims to promote the public welfare through heavy taxation and spending, within the framework of a capitalist economy. This is what the Scandinavians practice."

[Source: Foundation For Economic Education]​

The Myth of Scandinavian Socialism | Corey Iacono

 

It is generally accepted that the Scandinavian model is the closest thing we have to western-style socialism. A libertarian think-tank like FEE isn't going to be honest about that because they don't want to portray a successful system as socialist. It's also why they never bring up the fact that they are opposed to generous social safety nets and universal healthcare while talking about the Scandinavian countries.

 

OK, if this is what you mean then I'll join your socialist utopia...as long as there is a strong Bill Of Rights, the government stays out of the marketplace, I retain the right to search for the highest paying job that I qualify for, I can vote for anyone I want to represent me in government (particularly those who support keeping my taxes low) and can belong to whatever political party I want, I can own firearms...hmmm, this all sounds familiar.

 

They are socialist in the way Americans understand the word. Democratic socialism is still a degree of socialism.

 

It isn't a utopia.
No one has said it was going to be a perfect world.
I am trying to explain how it would work to people who think that mockery and sarcasm is valid criticism.

Scandinavians do not have low taxes.
If their taxes were lowered, it would ruin everything that is good about Scandinavia.
Social programs need money in order to exist.

Regardless, democracy is not incompatible with socialism... however you might want to look at the two major political parties in the US and ask yourself if being allowed to choose between a right-wing party and a batshit insane right wing party is actually democracy.

I don't know why you think you can't own firearms in a socialist state. The idea that anyone who leans left supports a total gun ban is right-wing paranoia/the NRA distorting the issue. Scandinavians do not have the same insane mentality that right-wing America has.

 

I'm not Scandinavian and I still want low taxes.

Are you calling the Democrat party right-wing?

 

Uhhhh... yeah, I got that.

In most other developed western countries, they would be considered right wing.
Of course, in America they are left because you are so far to the right.

 

I'm not a right winger...I hate them as much if not more than left wingers. I don't need religion, drug laws and 'morality' shoved down my throat anymore than I need high taxes and central planning.

 

Ain't no point looking left or right when your goal is in front of you.

 

I meant the plural form of 'you', ie: America.
Salaries are also higher in Scandinavian countries.

 

I want this shirt. Website looks to be right wing but it's so funny. You either get it or take the meaning the shirt implies. And that little test will tell me a lot about you.

 

OK, I'll help y'all spread the word about how great socialism is. We'll do it the old fashioned way, door to door. I'll take the neighborhoods in Manhattan and Beverly Hills; I'd hate for you to be beaten and robbed by those greedy bourgeoisie bastards. Besides, I want to see how excited they are when they find out all the great things socialism will do for them. You can have the more socialist-friendly areas of Compton, Watts and E. St. Louis. And be sure to take your smart phones; I'd like to see a video of you explaining to the proletariat how they'll be working more than one job out of pride instead of for the traditional, old-fashioned paycheck. And they'll love the 'taking as much as they need' part. I would be surprised if some 'wealth-redistribution' didn't occur on the spot.

Anyway, thanks for the debate but I've got to go to bed. I have a job to go to in the morning.

 

What do you think we are, North-Korea? No barb wire fences and machine gun towers with uniformed soldiers controlling us here. And no one's forcing you to bring flowers to the statue of the Great Leader under the pane of death. But I'll humor you:

"as long as there is a strong Bill Of Rights"
You bet. Freedom of speech and religion, equality and justice for all, right to education and welfare... All guaranteed. But you can't own a gun. This is not a basic human right, because we don't need no people here who would storm night clubs, schools and concerts with military assault rifles, and pepper 200+ people in one go seemingly for no reason whatsoever. I rather like ours better than yours. If you wanna hunt, you must actually PROVE to the cops that you are a responsible, stable individual.

"the government stays out of the marketplace"
Nope. Corporations have to be kept under control and instill the fear of God in to them, because they're a greedy bunch of wankers, who will abuse their privileges if kept unchecked. Of course, political horse trading does happen behind the scenes, and the strictness of the control depends on who's currently in charge. But the EU is absolutely in the right in keeping the large companies under control, and stopping them from pulling some of the ridiculous shit seen in the US.

"I retain the right to search for the highest paying job that I qualify for"
Sure, nobody's stopping you. But whether or not you are actually qualified enough to be good enough for them is a completely different matter.

"I can vote for anyone I want to represent me in government (particularly those who support keeping my taxes low)"
Sure, we call that democracy here (maybe you've heard of it), but you'd be mad to want lower taxes. The tax system here ensures that the hospitals here will see me for free when I'm in distress and afraid for my life, or at most for a nominal fee, so that I don't have to give my moneys to some stupid insurance company, who then would proceed to rob me and not help me after all, despite the money I paid them. See, the premiums you pay for your insurance is a form of tax too, just one that you pay to the companies instead of your government.

"and can belong to whatever political party I want"
Sure, you can join. But you still have to be voted in to a position to gain any real power.

All this, while we still follow this little commie pinko system called Social Democracy.

 

All those American college students running away to Europe and Asia to get away from their inhuman, crippling student loan debts come to mind...

Debt Dodgers: Meet the Americans Who Moved to Europe and Went AWOL on Their Student Loans

 

That's such BS. I paid mine. So did millions of other people.

 

Why is that bad? Those loans are predatory with ridiculous rates. They know the 18 year old kid taking them out does not really understand what it means. But they live in a society that has told them you need to spend this insane amount of money or you will never make any money if your life. The goverment has chosen to exploit people and those people exploit them back. If no one pays the system collapses they can not enforce it.

 

If the system collapses there will be military police coming after people. Maybe that's why Trump is building the wall.

 

really? i'm sure i fully understood how loans work long before i was 18.