Socialism is superior to capitalism

I dont really think Marx had nefarious intentions though. He merely wrote a social philosophy in reaction to the inequality that he saw during his life. He couldnt have foreseen how it would turn out when put into practice and probably thought it unlikely his ideas would ever be more than a philosophy

And also to be fair his philosophy still hasnt been put into practice and likely never will be. It was a failed philosophy overall but his philosophy did move the world forward in terms of establishing successful mixed economies

 

You talk alot but say nothing. I would not expect you of all people to read between the lines. You saw the site the link was to and you got what you needed to from it.

Socialism works when you want it to work.

 

Where? When?

 

Hmmm...

How about these folks who 'want socialism to work' get together to form their own country... check on em in ten years and see how they're doing.

 

I don't know why you're saying this.
Socialism isn't hedonism.
People still have to work.

...which is why universal access to education is so important.
It's really hard to discuss this with someone who doesn't seem to want to understand the topic at hand.

Socialism isn't the same thing as the American welfare system.
If you're not even going to do some very basic research or critical thinking about the topic, why attempt to discuss it at all?

Whether or not you support something is up to you as an individual-- your values, beliefs, etc.
FFS Karl Marx himself wasn't exactly poor.

Believe it or not, there are people out there capable of looking beyond their own self-interest.

 

A big part of the problem is that people like you think it's unrealistic to care about your own community without being bribed to do so.
If everyone continues to be apathetic and cynical and refuses to accept that the world's problems are at least partially our own responsibility, nothing will ever improve.

 

Not trying to get mired in yet another argument but looking around & seeing people for what they are isn't cynical or apathetic. My wife & every friend of hers are prime examples of people who only care for themselves & the only people I've met who care for others without expectations of recompense were my mother & father. A preacher & his wife respectively. Instead of pointing fingers at each other we should be trying to ascertain the rationale which has led to this overarching ideology of me first in the modern era & seeking to develop ways to amend it

 

Religion often does encourage people to be giving and selfless, and it's not a coincidence that being active in the community and giving back to others despite how 'fair' you think it is will make you a happier, more fulfilled individual. It's the same basic principle that drives people to volunteer, do charity work, community service, work with people in need, etc... they do it because they know that it's the right thing to do. Whether they do it because they think it's what God wants, they think it's interesting, they are excited to see the result, or they simply take pride in being able to accomplish something and have it turn out well... that drive is something that everyone potentially has, but it is also something that is complicated by class conflicts, economic conflicts, social conflicts, etc.

I touched on this earlier-- capitalism operates from the basic assumption that people need to be bribed before they will do any work, and without that bribe, everyone would be lazy and nothing would get done. This isn't at all true-- when people feel that doing something is worthwhile, they will do it, despite how uncomfortable it makes them, despite how dangerous it is (western nurses working with Ebola patients for little pay, for example).

On the other hand, as I said before, if you tell someone 'you need to be paid for this', then they will assume that the job itself isn't worth doing unless they receive money to do so. This mentality becomes ingrained, travels through society at large, and finally everyone just accepts that work is something you do in order to get money, as opposed to something that is its own reward. We socially program each other to think this way, and finally you get people like the ones in this thread who just assume it's 'natural', close their minds, and laugh/mock/bully anyone who suggests it doesn't have to be this way.

The problem is that in a capitalist society, there are jobs that do not receive money OR respect-- if someone works hard making a public place clean, or if they collect the garbage, etc... everyone just looks down on them-- because of their salary, because their work is 'dirty', etc. Those people deserve recognition and respect that they aren't getting... it wouldn't have to be a monetary reward, just the ability to take pride in what they do.

 

The 'they' you are talking about must not be human beings. We humans are a self-interested lot by nature. And any philosophy that requires a change in human nature in order to work is worthless at best. At worst, in order for it to 'work', this change must be enforced by law. And even then it doesn't produce prosperity, it only succeeds in equally spreading out the misery.

We're already surrounded by socialized spending in the US; all we have to is look at simple examples to see what I mean. Which is more likely to be clean, your own bathroom or the public restroom? If you accidentally pee on the toilet seat in the public restroom (ladies excluded) are you more or less likely to clean it up than if you pee on the toilet rim at home? Where is a person more likely to litter, at the park or in his own front yard? Which is nicer (and probably safer), your own house or a public housing project? Where are kids more likely to get a stellar education, public or private schools? Who is more honest, your own friends and family or public officials? And some want these public officials to have more power over our pocketbooks?

I'll stick with capitalism.

 

Why do people keep saying this?

Human 'nature' contains a lot of behavioral impulses that are either augmented or diminished by our environment, our upbringing, and the social norms around us. If we think self-interest is the norm, then we will act according to that norm. Norms aren't nature!

Compassion, altruism, etc... are also 'natural'... but unfortunately they are not the norm. Being cynical about people definitely isn't helping.

American society is not socialist.
People in America do not have socialist values.
Your examples don't work.

 

It’s tough to say whether or not Marx had malicious intent, or if he actually thought humans would adhere to his philosophy to reach his hypothetical outcome.

At best, he was just an unhygienic, home-dwelling, book nerd who had some big-hearted small-brained ideas. At worse, he was truly a manipulative psychopath (his appearence certainly suggests it).

Because humans are naturally greedy. They’ll prioritize their own wants and needs before helping others. Marx’s philosophy foolishly tries to combat the natural instinct of human greed. Whereas capitalism utilizes greed for the betterment of society through a competitive reward-based system. Greed still runs rampant in socialist societies too, despite ramming equality down everyone’s throats.

An ant colony or a beehive might be a working model of Marxism though. Every ant works not for itself, but for the betterment of the colony. And every ant is equal. But in the end, the ant and the human have different desires and natural born instincts.

 

Evidence for this claim please? Real tangible evidence?

 

I still don't get all these pro-Socialist people who continue to live in a Capitalist country.

Wouldn't moving abroad be easier than trying to get 300 million people to change their world view?

 

Under socialism, they think they would get a bigger welfare cheque

 

Yes, all 300 million people in America unanimously agree that capitalism is best.

For those who don't, they can just leave their homes, friends, family, entire lives behind forever... no big deal.

It certainly makes a lot more sense than trying to change things at home, since America is actually just a pro-capitalist hivemind.

Reading the comments in this thread has done a lot to convince me that a lot of the hatred that socialism gets is mostly due to people not knowing what it is... complete with Reagan-era stereotypes about welfare queens and not wanting to work. My favorite is the guy who thinks that Karl Marx was just dumb.

 

My favorite is the Australian who has likely never seen a medical bill in his life pretending he is anti socialism

 

Also the US is a mixed economy

And European nations are also mixed economies

Socialist nations dont really exist. Countries like North Korea and Cuba arent socialist, they're totalitarian regimes with elements of socialism.

European nations and the US, Canada, Australia, etc employ capitalism and socialism to varying degrees. None are 100% one or the other

 

And for those of us who do, we should just have to adapt to your desired utopia and change our entire lives forever...no big deal.

It's certainly a lot less selfish than relocating to a country that embraces socialism, since America is, apparently, an anti-capitalist hivemind.

See?

 

A majority of Americans support single payer healthcare now

Almost two thirds of Americans support tuition free college (which, by the way, can be done without using tax funding. See: Tennessee)

Two-Thirds of Americans Support Free College Tuition

Public support for ‘single payer’ health coverage grows, driven by Democrats


Yet here we are

I hate when the majority are held captive by the minority too

 

Well, considering a lot of American don't even seem to understand what it is they're so opposed to, the first step is probably trying to get past all the ignorance, so that they can at least make informed decisions.

You said that 300 million Americans were opposed to socialism.
I didn't say America was a hivemind of any kind.