Socialism Forum!

In what way have I ‘twisted’ your words?

For example you have never denied that you would want people you think have no value to die?

I’m just pointed out that your opposition to socialism seems based on that idea because socialism would help people survive that you would prefer dead.

Yes and although asked you still haven’t said where?

Well that is I think obvious, in fact I’m not sure what your idea of ‘community’ is. It seems to me that you think more in terms of individuals locked in a struggle for survival where what you think of as the weak should die. It’s less community and more pack.

 

you have said elsewhere that there is a sense of community where you currently live, one that reminds you of the america of your youth

[how many miles did you walk in the snow to get to school?]

do you believe that cutting the government loose will restore the voluntary community you seek?

[i don't]

and do you believe that voluntary community works everywhere, regardless of size, crowding, diversity, other mitigating social conditions?

[i don't]

 

Why should I deny it, I didn't say it.

My opposition to Socialism, or ANY form of government is based only the fact that the more power any government acquires, the more oppressive it becomes, democratic or not.

I think I have said that I live in Asia, although I feel it unnecessary to pin point exactly where.

I simply look at a community as being a group of people who live in close enough proximity to one another to have some familiarity with one another, and are capable of coexisting peacefully together without the necessity of force. The U.S. is made up of States, and within each State are many communities. Communities can vary greatly from one another, and people sometimes move to another community to live among those who they feel are more compatible.

 

you know, i'm 50 years old and have still not found a community i feel compatible with . . .

 

Then it seems your issue is with totalitarianism, not with socialism itself.

My understanding of socialism is that it is an economic system, so just like capitalism, it can exist with an extremely weak government or even no government at all.

 

you are right, the old paradigm calls for re-education at first though, which seems needed [at least where i live] and would call for a bit of government [as a means to an end]

i have seen nothing in the behavior of humans that would suggest that we have grown to the point of needing re-education less; perhaps even the opposite

maybe if we were all good buddhists . . .

 

I walked about a mile and a half to school each day, in Northern New Jersey, through snow when I had to.

You have to first build a community, or perhaps rebuild might be a better term.

Nothing is perfect, but a society is built from people not government.

 

Keep looking, or look harder. I have several I feel comfortable in, and if government becomes oppressive in one I will simply move to another.

 

The issue to me is unrestrained government which attempts to impose controls over each individual society, which lessens or eliminates ones freedom to make choices. Socialism as a form of centralized government tends to become more and more totalitarian and oppressive in its application than what the U.S. Constitution attempted to accomplish.

 

stop, stop, i've heard that one before . . .

people always say that society is built from people - but what if your people are assholes?

actually, one might argue the exact opposite - not only built from secular leadership but also spiritual [in the case of your adopted home]

when i was younger i belonged to an idealistic society made from people - the punk rock culture of the late 70s-early 80s - despite all the circles-with-an-a-in-the-middle there were leaders everywhere [as in the earlier hippy culture]

you have that luxury - i do not

i simply try to stay out of the way of sharks and eat whatever small bits of chum they miss . . .

 

It depends how you define control. To me the system of private property is extremely restrictive, controlling use and access to that property to one person, the owner, by coercive legal means.

 

Do you leave the door open to your house so that homeless people can come in, eat, sleep, and make use of the property as they wish?

 

You asked the question. There was no bus service for those who lived that close to school, and I rode a bike often instead of walking. A mile and a half isn't that far.

What if?

You would find it difficult to identify anything as leadership where I live,

And where are they now?

I do now, but only because I sought it out.

I'm totally self sufficient if I need be.

 

it was meant to be a joke, sorry...

well, then you have a society that cannot organize itself without help - much like the town i live in today

they're buddhists, they have guidelines for living, those guidelines came from someone

add: i don't think you can compare society where you live with the united states, and i think you understand that

 

My actions are shaped by the laws of the society I live in. As are other peoples. It is only "my" property in a system which recognises private ownership, so what I would do under that system does not apply to what I would do under others.

 

why are there homeless people?

 

Ask the nearest organized town to incorporate it.

They? I live among Buddhist, Christian, Muslim, and non-religious persons, so the guidelines we have for living aren't from a single source.

That's quite true, and one reason why I live where I do.

 

Then are you saying that you would prefer the elimination of private ownership?

 

Is there a single answer to that question? I mentioned, in a previous post, a friend who lost his job at NASA and became homeless living in a forest for a few years. For him it was more or less a well deserved vacation.

 

i have known several homeless people - my actual father was homeless throughout as much of the last years of his life that i can find out about

most of them had some sort of psychological problem - ranging from drug and alcohol addiction to schizophrenia

people do not take care of each other

[edit: because we're so busy working that we don't have time to]