So now that the Muslims BEHEADED someone, you still think we're the badguys?

Discussion in 'America Attacks!' started by Wicked Eyes, May 12, 2004.

  1. showmet

    showmet olen tomppeli

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    Don't know what gives you that idea ... the Geneva Convention of 1949 states that an occupying power is not permitted to exploit the natural resources of the country it invades. Under international law it belongs to the country of Iraq, not the power which occupies it. Of course this is problematic since there is no recognised government in Iraq, just a military occupation. So if anyone controls it, technically it would be the UN. Most certainly not the US. The USA's selling of the oil is illegal.
     
  2. LaughinWillow

    LaughinWillow Member

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    ah, Showme, but what you aren't understanding is that the US doesn't HAVE TO follow the Geneva Convention or any other international law. I was told yesterday by one of these warmongers on here that the only law that matters to the US is the constitution, so the fact that this entire war is illegal under INTERNATIONAL law is irrelevant. *sigh* We are in so much fucking trouble.
     
  3. TerminalMadness

    TerminalMadness Member

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    The beheading IMO was not real; it was a ploy created by us to fuel our rage against the Iraqi's. Come on; why would they cover themselves up if they were really Iraqi?

    At least that's how I see it.

    And tell me, who said we were the enemy? Since when is it wrong to question a governmeny who is being led by a basic numbskull who is making all the wrong moves? What's wrong with that? If you stop questioning you become just another follower.
     
  4. skip

    skip Founder Administrator

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    "we are not doing anything illegal." - Megara

    If this is the best defense you can come up with, you better can it Megara. You are looking more & more like a troll with every post.

    SINCE WHEN IS TORTURE LEGAL? How about I force YOU to submit to this and then you tell everyone my acts are legal?

    Oh wait, that's right, the US created these extrajudicial prisons where people can be detained INDEFINITELY, without charges, lawyers or judges review. Just like in Afghanistan, just like in Gitmo, just like in all those OTHER SECRET PLACES that have yet to be revealed.

    So what GREAT intelligence did they get out of these poor victims? I guess Iraq is now much safer & secure thanks to the secrets these tortured souls revealed.

    MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. Thanks to all the Sadists who saved America!
     
  5. Maverick

    Maverick Banned

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    Hey, Skip. The entire US government didn't abuse the Iraqi priisoners.
     
  6. Megara

    Megara Banned

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    If you read what i said. The UN gave the power of iraq to the US...the US controls what happens in the country and what is done with its resources. We were given LEGAL status to rule the country. Try again.
     
  7. Megara

    Megara Banned

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    Way to go skip, continue posting nonsense and absolute bullshit. You took what i said in reference to selling iraqi oil and try to make it pertain to torture. If you actually read my other posts, i condemned the tortures.

    But i wouldnt expect you to actually make a valid point, ever. Just spin what someone says and post your hate. The only one trolling here is you. Dont take what i say out of context.
     
  8. showmet

    showmet olen tomppeli

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    Presumably you are talking about UN Resolution 1483, which recognises the US and Britain as occupying powers of Iraq. It explicitly states that as the occupiers, these countries are subject to international law dictating the obligations of occupying powers. I'd be fascinated to know why you think the USA "owns" Iraqi oil or has legal status to rule the country. Sovereignty remains with Iraq, not the military occupiers. Under international law, the natural resources of the occupied country are not in the legal possession of the occupying power.

    Here's the relevant quote from 1483:

    "Noting the letter of 8 May 2003 from the Permanent Representatives of the United States of America and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to the President of the Security Council (S/2003/538) and recognising the specific authorities, responsibilities, and obligations under applicable international law of these states as occupying powers under unified command."
     
  9. Megara

    Megara Banned

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    i take it that you've read all of 1483




    12. Notes the establishment of a Development Fund for Iraq to be held by the Central Bank of Iraq and to be audited by independent public accountants approved by the International Advisory and Monitoring Board of the Development Fund for Iraq and looks forward to the early meeting of that International Advisory and Monitoring Board, whose members shall include duly qualified representatives of the Secretary-General, of the Managing Director of the International Monetary Fund, of the Director-General of the Arab Fund for Social and Economic Development, and of the President of the World Bank;

    13. Notes further that the funds in the Development Fund for Iraq shall be disbursed at the direction of the Authority, in consultation with the Iraqi interim administration, for the purposes set out in paragraph 14 below;

    14. Underlines that the Development Fund for Iraq shall be used in a transparent manner to meet the humanitarian needs of the Iraqi people, for the economic reconstruction and repair of Iraq’s infrastructure, for the continued disarmament of Iraq, and for the costs of Iraqi civilian administration, and for other purposes benefiting the people of Iraq;

    15. Calls upon the international financial institutions to assist the people of Iraq in the reconstruction and development of their economy and to facilitate assistance by the broader donor community, and welcomes the readiness of creditors, including those of the Paris Club, to seek a solution to Iraq’s sovereign debt problems; 16. Requests also that the Secretary-General, in coordination with the Authority, continue the exercise of his responsibilities under Security Council resolution 1472 (2003) of 28 March 2003 and 1476 (2003) of 24 April 2003, for a period of six months following the adoption of this resolution, and terminate within this time period, in the most cost effective manner, the ongoing operations of the “Oil-for-Food” Programme (the “Programme”), both at headquarters level and in the field, transferring responsibility for the administration of any remaining activity under the Programme to the Authority, including by taking the following necessary measures



    All the profits from the oil is going into the development fund to rebuild their country. All this is done under the permission and consent of the UNSC. No one, except people who are against the war are claiming that we are stealing any oil. Has any SC member tried to condemn the US for "stealing" oil?
     
  10. showmet

    showmet olen tomppeli

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    Megara, this is what you wrote:
    I read UN resolution 1483, did you? It states that the occupying power must administer ongoing activities under the UN's "oil-for-food" program which was terminated last November.

    It does not give the USA any right to claim Iraqi oil or to determine what is done with its resources, which is what you foolishly and ignorantly stated - see your quotes above.

    The USA is continuing to control Iraq's oil industry outside of the UN-mandated oil-for-food programme, apparently using the revenues unilaterally. As I stated, this behaviour is illegal!
     
  11. Megara

    Megara Banned

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    this is getting old.


    Show ONE single clause of international law(geneva convention, un resolution etc) in which we are violating by putting the iraqi oil into the Relief fund which the UN sanctioned.

    Just ONE.
     
  12. showmet

    showmet olen tomppeli

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    The issue here is not with the legitimacy of the "Development Fund for Iraq" which was created under 1483, it's about the apparent abuse of Iraqi oil resources by the United States - unaccountable, unilateral use of these funds, which amounts to illegal exploitation of the resources of the occupied state. Christian Aid has reported on the "disappearance" of money from the Development Fund, apparently used to pay US oil companies - in direct breach of 1483, which states that the Fund is to be used only in the humanitarian interests of the Iraqi people. The Government Accountability Project has published reports questioning the legitimacy of executive order 13303 which also violates 1483 and the terms of the Development Fund.

    Interesting article about these issues here - forgive its belligerent style, it has all the relevant facts:
    http://www.publicintegrity.org/wow/printer-friendly.aspx?aid=69
     
  13. skip

    skip Founder Administrator

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    Megara you miss MY point. Everything the US is doing in Iraq, including their presence there is illegal. It's an illegal war, and illegal occupation. Illegal acts are being ordered, performed and recorded. Then covered up. Now there can be no doubt that the US puppet gov't is no better than the gov't it replaced. Possibly worse!

    Yes, I think the US is NOW the bad guys.
     
  14. SunLion

    SunLion Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Everything the US is doing in Iraq, including their presence there is illegal. It's an illegal war, and illegal occupation. Illegal acts are being ordered, performed and recorded. Then covered up.

    As long as we're under the command of a gang of thugs- a rogue government whose fingers are armies and whose heart is a network of torture chambers- you can't even make a legitimate argument that the USA is worth defending. Several people here know that I dearly LOVE my family, friends, and by extension, a huge part of the American populace. I'm practically a nationalist at heart. I meet so many kind and good people that I sometimes see us as a nation with a potential for good beyond our wildest dreams. Exposure to those types of people has mistakenly, at times, led me to believe that most Americans are that good-hearted, and in the last year I've found myself more often wrong than right. The dream, or the madness, remains, though tainted.

    Until we have a legit government, one that supports the basic definition of America (that is, our Constitution), I must declare myself an outright enemy of that perverted "nation." I'd really hate to see things go that way, but Bush is determined to fuck over anyone who doesn't go with his version of fascism. I'll burn in hell before I'll give him that pleasure.

    <I>"A lot of people won't get no supper tonight,
    A lot of people won't get no justice tonight,
    Remember to kick it over..."</i>
    -The Clash
     
  15. SunLion

    SunLion Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    LaughinWillow:
    <I> I was told yesterday by one of these warmongers on here that the only law that matters to the US is the constitution</i>

    Yet they say something else when they get into a courtroom. In testimony before the US Supreme Court, April 28, 2004, in the Hamdi and Padilla cases, the BushAdMen attorney was explicitly asked what protections would remain in place, should American citizens fear being arrested and physically tortured, completely off the record and without any court involvement, by Bush operatives.

    Do you know how the monster answered?! I quote: "Treaty obligations."

    Yes, Bush's own legal team argues that the first line of defense that American citizens have against kidnap/torture by feds is "treaty obligations." Look it up- the full transcripts from authoritive sources are online, I'm giving the clean and relatively non-offensive version.

    I can't say you didn't warn me. Heck, you grabbed me by the shoulders and SHOOK me and I still didn't wake up, LaughinWillow. Maybe the shock had to wear off?

    This is America's worst possible nightmare come true: the most profane and immoral gang of thugs hiding behind a veil of legitimacy wrapped up and red, white, and blue flag material, working in bum-rush "shock and awe" fashion to overwhelm the thinking citizenry on every possible front at once. We have no mechanisms, social, political, or technological- with which to deal with it properly, and some mechanisms need to be improvised quickly.

    I spent just enough time in corporate meeting rooms to hear a few truly great quotes that can be taken into outside contexts, and I've gotta toss this one out, delivered by an MD, our Medical Director who happened to be from West Texas, to a meeting of managers, directors, and VP's of the HMO:

    "It's a snake in the grass, gentlemen. We'd better chop in in half 'fore it WIGGLES."

    But it's already wiggled, bit, and bred...

    <I>"Now Im never bored,
    When im a killin for The Lord,
    Now ive seen that light
    Hail Mary, i got Jesus on my siiiiide!!!!!
    Insanity's everywhere,
    Must be something in the air.
    I wanna blow them to pieces cuz,
    Iiiiiiiiiiiiii'm...
    Killin for jesus,
    Killin for jesus,
    Killin for jesus....
    One more for
    Christ,
    Our,
    Loooooooooooord!
    Yeaaaaaaaaaah!!!!!!"</i>
    -Circle Jerks, "Killin' For Jesus"
     
  16. Dizzy Man

    Dizzy Man Member

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    Skip, I just read your response to what I said. Thanks!

    I agree about us needing to keep our software updated. Good analogy!
     
  17. randy_savage

    randy_savage Member

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    Of course, nowadays the beheading news will be continue be used as the US propaganda in order to gain world's sympathies and for sure to redirect us from the real issue here -- the invasion and the kiling of thousands of Iraqis in Iraq.

    Eventhough the terrorists who beheaded Berg claimed to be Muslims, that does not mean that MUSLIMS HAVE KILL Berg. So, it is very very wrong to label it that way.

    I believe that the beheading was another manifestation of anger among MUslims, not just in Middle East but all over the world. The anger that rose because the cruelty of US troops invaded Iraq and destroying their future and their dignity.

    I must state also here: The Al-Qaeda are Muslims, but NOT all Muslims are AL-QAEDA. For this, hopefully any US-fanatics could differentiate the difference.
     
  18. showmet

    showmet olen tomppeli

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    Well said, SunLion, the "war on terror" is being fought in a way which *undermines* all the principles of liberty and justice rather than defending them! It's the sure way to go if you want the "war" to continue - it plays right into the hands of the extremists. Can you imagine a better recruiting campaign for al-Qaeda than invading Iraq? (And then committing abuses and torture - perfect!) You don't fight extremism with extremism. As the Iraq situation shows, this policy has made a bad situation worse. It doesn't make us any more secure, it makes us less secure - and considerably less free.

    The short-sightedness of the policymakers is nothing short of stunning. You can certainly see where the conspiracy theories come from which state that it's in the interests of the government to be at war. Can anyone really be as stupid as those in the White House and Pentagon appear to be?
     
  19. skip

    skip Founder Administrator

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    It's sure nice to see sheeple wake up! ;)

    SunLion, I'm amazed at the depth of your new commitment. Congratulations. You are now a true human being... ;)

    After reading & pondering your statements, it really makes me wonder why our leaders are not more alarmed at the deep hatred of many Americans towards Bush & his administration. This is as bad as I've ever seen it. America is once again divided to it's core. Yet Bush & company seem pretty much unfazed and carry on like business as usual.

    In most European democracies things could never get to this stage because power is SHARED among parties. No single party has even close to the power the republicans have now. Before such hatreds could fester & explode (as they are about to) there would've been a lot more give & take and compromise.

    So something is seriously wrong with America's version of democracy. It has become corporate fascism hidden under the last remaining veil of legitimacy, which has been in question since Bush was NOT elected by the people.

    And it amazes me how republicans can just ignore the reality of this. How they can remind us how we "elected" bush over and over, when we didn't! How can this be? How can the truth become lies in such a short period? How can Americans let their current history be re-written daily by conservatives?

    What frightens me is what else has transpired under secrecy that we know nothing about?
     
  20. Maverick

    Maverick Banned

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    Illeagal war? It's not. WMD's? They're there, we found some. When raiding training camps in Afganistan, they found manuals on how to fool UN weapons inspectors. No wonder they found nothing.
    Does anyone know what Salman Pak is? No? It's a terrorist training camp that was ran by Saddam Hussein. It's located 15 miles from Baghdad.
    More info here: http://www.intelmessages.org/Messages/National_Security/wwwboard/messages/826.html

    What? In Iraq? That can't be!

    And what about the man whom is suspected of murdering Nick Berg? He was wounded in Afganistan, brought to Iraq for surgery, and now kills American civilians.

    Iraq had plenty of involvement with Al-Queda and other terrorists. See, we didn't go in for no reason after all. It's all there, hard facts. Terrorists, WMD's, and Al-Queda links.
     

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