So now that the Muslims BEHEADED someone, you still think we're the badguys?

Awwww how sweet. Tell that to the Armenians that the Islamic Turks butchered and nearly committed genocide on. Or the women that are beaten and killed all through the Islamic world. They really know how to celebrate life!

 

And from the AP wire...
Senor referred questions about the reason for Berg's detention to the Iraqi police. In Mosul, however, police told the AP they had no knowledge of the Berg case. Police official Safwan Talal said the only American arrested there in recent months was a woman who was released soon afterward.

Since Iraq remains under U.S. military occupation, it seems unlikely Iraqi police would have held any American for such a length of time without at least the tacit approval of U.S. authorities.

Berg told his family that U.S. officials took custody of him soon after his arrest and he was not allowed to make phone calls or contact a lawyer, his father said...

But the three FBI visits suggest American authorities were concerned about more than Berg's well-being. They may have had their own suspicions about what the young American was doing in Iraq... (more detail at
http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/index.ssf?/base/news-15/1084428648228340.xml )

VERY suspicious. The timing, the drama, and the background all but leave a trail of blood leading right to Karl Rove's desk.

 

Its no surprise the Pentagon misinformation machine should be gearing up with denials such as this. Averting blame and spinning endless justifications for our prolific destruction has been the hallmark of the MIC for generations.

After all, it is imperitive that the sheeple continue to believe the myth that we are "the good guys" and every other country we decide to attack are collectively "the enemy", "terrorists", "uncivilised", etc...

If crushing nations under sanctions and then subsequently levelling their infrastructure with daily bombing raids and ultimately invading to set up our own user-friendly puppets is evidence of "civilised" behaviour, perhaps its time we started acting uncivilised.

 

As I've stated before, I believe the US was behind this beheading, and the taping of it. It's too convient, the story tells itself if you read it with an open, non sheepish mind. Elections are coming up folks, Bush has to drum up some fear and support. Pitty the US, vote for the man who will protect us! *rolls eyes*

Rumsfield clearly stated that he was going to try his HARDEST to make sure the rest of the pictures and videos were NOT released to the public (pertaining to the abuse of Iraqi prisoners). He also clearly stated that the pictures and such only get worse. How do we know there wasn't beheading of Iraqi prisoners? Hell they freakin beheaded a cow and posed with its head for a snap shot, do you think they are beyond beheading an Iraqi? Besides that, I'd rather be dead than abused, raped, and humiliated, those people will have to live with those scars for the rest of their lives.

Even IF the US wasn't behind this, they are still responsible. We went into a country bombing the shit out of them and killing innocent people. We've made their lives hell, while proclaiming to be freeing them. We've worn the title of Heros all the while being terrorists. We went into a country to also rid it of terrorism, did people seriously think it was going to be easy or pretty? Did people seriously think it would be easier if we tried Saddams tactics to win them over? Do people seriously believe we're in Iraq because of 9-11, and that it's valid? Are people seriously THAT stupid?

 

mari
"The faithfreedom site...honestly I didn't believe half the stuff posted in there. Not one of them that I read seems to have a clue about anything.

Did you actually SEE this attack happen?

No, what was funny was that I checked the member list to see where this 'threat' came from and found a poster on there that I had been posting to for 3 years on another forum. Now I know why he was such an idiot. LOL "
__________________
well I’ve posted on faithfreedom for a couple of year and haven’t seen anything disproved if you can come up with anything that you disagree with that might be useful

What was the posters screen name?



and as for the guy who got his head chopped it was in the mainstream non internet media it even got into western newspapers well in the uk I did post a thread about it on the old forum

ali sina doesn’t just have a website he’s been on non online media as well

Faithfreedom is either the most popular or second most popular website attacking Islam from a atheist perspective on the internet

The other person online that runs as popular a website that would be as good a target is ibn warriq its possible you may have heard of him ?



it could be this person is just trying to scare him he has lots of threats

but I’ve met muslins in a non online situation nice people and the thought that someone is born a Muslim and spends their time fighting against the religion makes them really really angry
And I believe these nice people if they had the opportunity would do this person some harm even in america or europe

we have had religious killings in my country salman rushdie has been in hiding in the uk for about 20 years we literally have thousands of people who have gone to Afghanistan to have terrorist training living in the uk

the main pr organisation for Islam in the usa is cair this is the group that’s supposed to be spreading the Islam is a religion of peace message have senior people arrested for collecting arms caches and doing jihadi terrorist training in america
it doesnt inspire confidence in their message
........
oh it could be that the american goverment is behind this but then again jihadi groups have been doing this sort of thing for years whats so hard to believe that there are some people that hate you that are not controlled by the american goverment

 

God damnit. Why does everyone insist on looking in terms of black and white?! Whose the good guy, whose the bad guy, democrat, or republican. You know what it is? BOTH SIDES ARE RUN BY EVIL FUCKS! And the good guys are being killed by both sides (usually.) They cut off a head but I think mass bombing cities and telling the troops NOT to count the Iraqi civilians amoung the casualties is horible as well. I think in part its why no one relizes how bad the war really is... People like this who see this video and demand for more "justice" are the ones who encourage it to happen more. And more. And more. Encourageing bloodshed is not the answer. Dont be decieved into thinking one side is doing good... They're both evil

 

Look, there aren't any clean hands in this war, period. This war wasn't justified to being with. Iraq had nothing to do with September 11th. Also has everyone forgotten how Colin Powell went before the UN and said the US knew where the WMDs were? Haven't found them and even if they exist and are found, who's going to believe the US or the UK. Both countries creditbility is piss poor now. We Americans let our government go to war without any serious debate at all. Bush and his fellow pirates don't want a legitimate arguement on the merits of their case, because they can't defend it. To use Bush's logic any country can become a potential enemy. Also, our ally Pakistan's President wasn't elected, he took power. Guess birds of a feather do flock together.

 

That poster hasn't posted anything, so you wouldn't know him. I think he did intend to post there at one point, and I know for sure he read in there before he ever joined. Anyway, it made a lot of sense to me.

With the things that are posted in that forum I don't doubt that people are mad, and if you post crap like I saw you are going to get people who come in and post the same stupid shit for the other side. You have to stand back and look at it from another side and then you will see what I am talking about.

Could you find a link or post the story so that I could see it?

I don't think it's the american government behind it at all, I just think it's a bunch of idiots filled with hate and posting it.

 

Yes! They do and that is part of the whole problem.

They also thought it would be over in a few weeks. Posting on another board when this whole mess started and I said that it wouldn't be over that quickly and that it was going to be a huge mess. I took so much crap for that it wasn't funny. However 1 year later, not one of those people could say I wasn't right.

 

Ah yes and American's are just SO much better.

Before you can understand anybody you have to know all sides. You obviously don't.

 

As I've stated before, I believe the US was behind this beheading, and the taping of it. It's too convient, the story tells itself if you read it with an open, non sheepish mind.

I really do think so as well, and no one has ridiculed "conspiracy theories" with more venom than me. In this case, it just adds up too neatly to really have a lot of doubt. There's a LOT more to this story, that's for certain, and we need a REAL investigation.

In the UK, pro-war Tony Parsons has now loudly and angrily declared that he was wrong, tricked, lied to, and is now even calling for a War Crimes Tribunal.

Yes, an International War Crimes Tribunal should commence, and spare no one in the Bush Administration. I'm bitter because although from the start I didn't think the US should be involved, but I fell for some of their lies too, and for that I'm extremely bitter.

And let's not forget the role of Clearchannel Communications in this mess. You kids going to any concerts this summer? Clearchannel owns all the venues, or nearly all of them. I'm not suggesting that you vandalize and rip to shreds the concert venues, only that you not STOP anyone who starts ripping the place down.

Let it burn, wanna let it burn, Wanna let it burn, wanna wanna let it burn..." -Sublime

"We'll be fighting in the streets with our children at our feet, and the morals that they worship will be gone, And the men who spurred us on sit in judgment of all wrong. They decide and the shotgun sings the song..."
-The Who

Stellablue, if you see this, follow my LJ link to my brother's post for today, he talks a bit about something he saw, and managed to prevent, in Vietnam. Nothing large in scale, but it's a subject he doesn't talk about much at all. He's quite good with his words.

 

Will do SunLion, thanks. Oh, and btw, I loved your 'made for tv' version of Bush hearing about the guy.

 

Both Parties have long become the puppets of corprate interests. Regardless of Party, all we've seen is the same corporate status quo governing both domestic and foreign policies.

The entire system has failed the intent of our founding fathers.

 

Sunlion/Stella - Wow, I hadn't even thought about the government actually staging this murder to lower the heat and attention on the US abuses in Iraq - but it is certainly a possibility - especially as more information comes out about Berg. Apparently Berg's father is claiming that Berg was extremely anti-war and may have been in police custody for that. And government "experts" have conveniently "discovered" that the hooded man in the video is the leader of insurgents in Iraq? Give me a fucking break. It's all adding up too well and too quickly - I'm sure we'll see an attack on some town full of "terrorists" (read: antiamerican freedom fighters) any day now, justified by their claim that it was this "terrorist leader" who did the beheading - and america will buy it.

 

If I understand things correctly, the father was an anti-war activist, the son was not. They had a family business or something, and the dad's name and the name of their business was listed on the ANSWER site, which someone on freerepublic used as an "enemy list." Thus they stood accused of being terrorists, basically, by the wacko right. The son went to Iraq, by all accounts I've seen, to simply try to help people there and keep their family business going. He was a geek techie kind of guy, and had spent free time helping people with their PC/Internet problems.

I'm just guessing here, but dad had probably said "son, if you really believe that we can help Iraq, you won't be afraid to go there and do good works." He really does sound like he was a nice guy from a good compassionate family. In other words, to the political right, a dangerous communistic hedonistic atheistic subversive terrorist.

After all this horror, the dad hung a sign outside his house saying "War Is Not The Answer." That's about the most moving thing I've heard of in a very long time. America COULD become a force for good someday, with people with that level of moral character.

Now that the "password" thing related to the 911 attack has surfaced, there can be little doubt that the White House knew about him being in custody, and wanted him dead. Whether they had Americans do it, or whether they simply turned him over to actual terrorists, I'm not sure.

But the President was personally aware of the case, without a doubt, and I'm sure we all agree that given the background, Bush would have made certain that he was killed, or at the very least, "disappeared."

 

hummmmm ( rubs beard) Makes ya wonder huh?
There is some that stinks, that is horrorable and dead in the " american pie", and I don't want to take a bite of it.

 

MarkN, I will presume for argument's sake that you havent read too deeply into the background of roughly 12 years of efforts on the part of Unocal to establish a trans-Afghanistan pipeline in order to free up the access to and distribution of Mid-Asian natural gas?

The countries of Kazakstan, Uzbekistan and Tajikistan are all land locked and inaccessible to the gulf from whence it could be easily shipped out. Unocal spent 12 years negotiating, bribing and using Washington to cajole the Taliban government into authorizing and safeguarding the planned pipeline all without success (the Taliban always wanted more money or more assurance than Washington was finally willing to pay - far less than the cost of these wars however).

So in keeping with our historic patterns, the administration needed an event of such shocking magnitude that the public would, out of trauma and grief and disbelief, become enraged and all the more easily manipulated to support the war long planned as the final contingency to secure Unocal's prize.

Once the Taliban was ousted, who was installed but Mr. Karzai, who happens to have been the Afghani representative for none other than Unocal.

I hope that answers your questions and spurs you to dig a bit deeper than US media wishes to aknowledge.

 

wouldnt it be counter productive for americans to kill this guy they are trying to get contractors into the country beheading contractors to make the other side look bad seems far fetched
The effect could be the oppersite to what they intend it could make people more keen to withdraw and If I was planning something like that I would think about that

I noticed the end of the tape my guess is that they botched the job and it was slower and worse than it appeared and thats why they may have edited it
really it doesnt matter apart from the effect that it had on this poor man

I dont think the american goverment bumped this guy off I think he most likely didnt know what was going to happen to him and the people doing it choose the method of killing him because thats the sort of method the prophet mohammed used

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=13371

The Sacred Muslim Practice of Beheading

By Andrew G. Bostom
FrontPageMagazine.com | May 13, 2004

Reactions to the grotesque jihadist decapitation of yet another "infidel Jew," Mr. Berg, make clear that our intelligentsia are either dangerously uninformed, or simply unwilling to come to terms with this ugly reality: such murders are consistent with sacred jihad practices, as well as Islamic attitudes towards all non-Muslim infidels, in particular, Jews, which date back to the 7th century, and the Prophet Muhammad's own example.

According to Muhammad’s sacralized biography by Ibn Ishaq, Muhammad himself sanctioned the massacre of the Qurayza, a vanquished Jewish tribe. He appointed an "arbiter" who soon rendered this concise verdict: the men were to be put to death, the women and children sold into slavery, the spoils to be divided among the Muslims. Muhammad ratified this judgment stating that it was a decree of God pronounced from above the Seven Heavens. Thus some 600 to 900 men from the Qurayza were lead on Muhammad’s order to the Market of Medina. Trenches were dug and the men were beheaded, and their decapitated corpses buried in the trenches while Muhammad watched in attendance. Women and children were sold into slavery, a number of them being distributed as gifts among Muhammad’s companions, and Muhammad chose one of the Qurayza women (Rayhana) for himself. The Qurayza’s property and other possessions (including weapons) were also divided up as additional "booty" among the Muslims, to support further jihad campaigns.

The classical Muslim jurist al-Mawardi (a Shafi’ite jurist, d. 1058) from Baghdad was a seminal, prolific scholar who lived during the so-called Islamic "Golden Age" of the Abbasid-Baghdadian Caliphate. He wrote the following, based on widely accepted interpretations of the Qur'an and Sunna (i.e., the recorded words and deeds of Muhammad), regarding infidel prisoners of jihad campaigns:

“As for the captives, the amir [ruler] has the choice of taking the most beneficial action of four possibilities: the first to put them to death by cutting their necks; the second, to enslave them and apply the laws of slavery regarding their sale and manumission; the third, to ransom them in exchange for goods or prisoners; and fourth, to show favor to them and pardon them. Allah, may he be exalted, says, 'When you encounter those [infidels] who deny [the Truth=Islam] then strike [their] necks' (Qur'an sura 47, verse 4)”....Abu’l-Hasan al-Mawardi, al-Ahkam as-Sultaniyyah." [The Laws of Islamic Governance, trans. by Dr. Asadullah Yate, (London), Ta-Ha Publishers Ltd., 1996, p. 192. Emphasis added.]

Indeed such odious “rules” were iterated by all four classical schools of Islamic jurisprudence, across the vast Muslim empire.

For centuries, from the Iberian peninsula to the Indian subcontinent, jihad campaigns waged by Muslim armies against infidel Jews, Christians, Zoroastrians, Buddhists and Hindus, were punctuated by massacres, including mass throat slittings and beheadings. During the period of “enlightened” Muslim rule, the Christians of Iberian Toledo, who had first submitted to their Arab Muslim invaders in 711 or 712, revolted in 713. In the harsh Muslim reprisal that ensued, Toledo was pillaged, and all the Christian notables had their throats cut. On the Indian subcontinent, Babur (1483-1530), the founder of the Mughal Empire, who is revered as a paragon of Muslim tolerance by modern revisionist historians, recorded the following in his autobiographical “Baburnama,” about infidel prisoners of a jihad campaign:

"Those who were brought in alive [having surrendered] were ordered beheaded, after which a tower of skulls was erected in the camp." [The Baburnama -Memoirs of Babur, Prince and Emperor, translated and edited by Wheeler M. Thacktson, Oxford University Press,1996, p. 188. Emphasis added.]

Recent jihad-inspired decapitations of infidels by Muslims have occurred across the globe- Christians in Indonesia, the Philippines, and Nigeria; Hindu priests and "unveiled" Hindu women in Kashmir; Wall Street Journal reporter, and Jew, Daniel Pearl. We should not be surprised that these contemporary paroxysms of jihad violence are accompanied by ritualized beheadings. Such gruesome acts are in fact sanctioned by core Islamic sacred texts, and classical Muslim jurisprudence. Empty claims that jihad decapitations are somehow "alien to true Islam," however well-intentioned, undermine serious efforts to reform and desacralize Islamic doctrine. This process will only begin with frank discussion, both between non-Muslims and Muslims, and within the Muslim community.

...
mari the guy that got chopped posts on a asian humanist website mokto-mono that ali sina also posts on hes a poet and writer and they thinks he got attacked by jamiat islami hes a poet and writer
http://www.thedailystar.net/2004/02/29/d4022901011.htm

and again I would love to see you disprove faithfreedom.org

 

No it would not counterproductive because first off this man was not connected to any official reconstruction project, he was a lone individual snooping about to see what subcontracting work he could find. He was neither sent nor invited to be there and thus had no assurances of nor access to official contractor security.

The agenda being advance is that of perpetual war. For perpetual war to remain valid int he public eye, it must be accompanied by exploitable cases of brutality against our own in order to fuel public anxiety, fear and anger into the necessary unquestioning mode of acceptance for policies claimed to be the effective answer to those anxieties, fears and anger (namely, notch up the militant response).

Do some legwork in researching the numerous examples of just this sort of manipulation of the media by the CIA (Guatemala, Nicaragua, Chile, Grenada, Iran (see: Mossadegh), and you will see the pattern our MIC follows emerging once again here and now.

These guys make us "conspiracy theorists" look like rank amateurs.