So Help Me God

Discussion in 'Agnosticism and Atheism' started by Shale, Aug 9, 2015.

  1. Shale

    Shale ~

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    Jury Duty - No More
    by Shale
    August 8, 2015

    Today I got my confirmation that I am excused from jury duty in the federal court. On July 28, 2015 I received my summons to appear for jury service on Sept. 11th. I have received these in the past both from the U.S. District Court and the Miami-Dade County court and have always called or gone in and usually taken one or two days to get dismissed. I have never actually served on a jury during a trial.

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    The last time I went for jury duty in September 2010, it took me a week of going downtown every day while the jury pool for this one case got smaller and smaller and on the last day I was finally dismissed. The case would have had me going there every day for a month. I was working at the time and altho I was getting my regular pay from work while on jury duty my work would have really piled up in my absence. Serving on jury duty is a real inconvenience.

    So, now I am retired and you'd think a civic minded person like me would enjoy having something worthwhile to do and get paid $40 a day for it. I probably would except that I am fed up with the whole legal system and its mainstream assumption that everyone has a religious faith.

    "So Help Me God"

    All my adult life I have refrained from taking oaths that end with "so help me god." If it is printed on a form I have inked thru it before signing. I refuse to acknowledge what I consider archaic mythology.

    Once, while being deposed by a State Attorney I had to stop the whole procedure and go thru all sorts of legal contortions because I told him I would omit the "so help me god" in the oath and that should be reflected in the transcript. I would have thot that this would be routine by now, but apparently there are not that many non-believers that come across the legal system.

    But, when you are sworn in for jury duty, you are in a room of maybe a hundred ppl and the official rattles off the oath that everyone is supposedly repeating, including the ending of "so help me god." I actually once ran down a judge in the courthouse to confess to him that I did not take the verbal oath that ended with "so help me god." He just questioned me about am I truthful and honest and I said yes and he was satisfied. Why can't the official verbal oath reflect as much?

    For those of us who do not subscribe to this common religious belief, it is extremely insulting that the majority culture in a supposed secular society feels a right to impose it on us.

    So, I filled out the questionnaire and opted out of serving on a jury on the grounds that I am over 70 years of age. I'm too old to run down judges or officials and tell them I am not taking their sham oath.

    [​IMG]
     

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  2. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    "Why can't the official verbal oath reflect as much?"



    It does. The meaning of the word god is essentially that which we invoke.

    Just as we can have a foot that is twelve inches we can also have foot massage.

    Most understand that it is an expression of sincerity to take an oath. However just because you took an oath doesn't mean everyone is going t believe you. The whole exercise is as you surmised, a fuckin waste of time.
     
  3. newbie-one

    newbie-one one with the newbiverse

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    I suppose that you could write or call the courthouse and confirm that it's ok that you not take the oath

    No one will really give a shit. As long as you are being truthful, there should be no reason to compel you to take an oath.

    You could make a legal issue out of this if you wanted to. Separation of church and state is constitutionally guaranteed. You should be able to make a declaration of truthfulness that does not require you to mention anything about God.
     
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  4. SnakeOilWilly

    SnakeOilWilly Members

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    I suppose with a good civil lawyer this could be a groundbreaking case. Changing the oath to exclude "so help me god". Though I'm not sure it'd be worth the legal fees. I guess at the end of the day it is unconstitutional. The whole separation of church and state is a confusing issue. The constitution doesn't explicitly say much about separation of church and state but the courts have ruled it is a constitutional matter. The supreme court would probably rule that the oath needs to be changed provided the issue would make it to them. And I hate to say this but I guess the supreme court has bigger things on they're mind.
     
  5. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    I think it's pretty well settled that atheist jurors have a right to affirm instead of swear, and can omit reference to god. This rests on an especially strong foundation of "speech + religion" in the First Amendment. In fact, the 5th circuit upheld the right of an atheist juror to substitute a statement of personalized commitment for an affirmation, which she thought was too religious. (Society for Separationists, Inc. v. Herman). For a discussion, see William & Mary Law Review, vo. 34 Issue #1, Art.13. No further groundbreaking needed.
     

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