So do you really?

You already know my answer to that question! ... and thank you for participating in this discussion as usual.

If you want to pick up guys try another forum.

 

the thing about wafers. is you can dip them in Milk..


Simple goodness.. :cheers2:< toast to milk.

 

nilla wafers are holy. LOL

 

Lol :tongue: you know Im just messing with you 3xi.
I do agree with some of what you are saying, but at the same time, from the way Writer
expresses the ineffable, the esoteric, the non value and the transcendental to what you
are calling physical laws, reveals to me that he has moved beyond that state of mind and
into higher truth. Not that you are in any less state, but your desire to tell people of
importance is concerned with turning other people on directly, while Writer and I are
involved in a dissolution process which when experienced expounds on the maya and the
blossoming intelligence behind it.
Basically, any importance you hold to be in harmony with the laws of nature and basic
human goodness (sattva), while also interconnected with rajas (neutral) and tamas (negative),
does have it's place in that acting in the guna sattva (mode of basic goodness) will show
others how to liberate themselves from suffering, move beyond material attachment, and
reverese avidya (literally delusion, or ignorance). But, since I know that you are a
person who has no doubt in the law of karma, what you also need to know is that nearly
every text, wether Hindu or Buddhist, claims that all 3 modes of nature or karmic debt,
must be payed off and transcended. Acting in a way that the guru would act, or Christ,
or any of the teachers, is a model of life which will eventually bring on higher states
of God consciousness, but relying on goodness is still a reliance and therefor is not
the end of the journey towards enlightenment, moksha, buddha nature, self realization etc.
The way Writer and I approach the matter can be summed up with one Bhagavad Gita verse,
the one I feel holds the most profound wisdom, and the one which the simple minded like
to twist around to mean an excuse for being lazy and brushing off responsibility.
It has nothing to do with that, and everything to do with going beyond ego death into
the mind of Nature, then Christ Consciousness, and finally Brahma realized, or
Sat Chit Ananda.

"He truly sees, who sees that all actions are performed by nature alone, and that the Self is without action."
- Bhagavad Gita 13:29

And then you have these quotes which further elaborate the friction in dualism, how the
dualism is reality, and how one exists both within the grid and in relative ignorance
of the grid.

"I am endowed with two Shaktis, namely the superior and the inferior natures; the field and its knower. I unite these two".
- Bhagavad Gita 07:04
"The Lord dwells in the heart space of beings and moves them to act by his divine Maya, as though mounted on a machine".
- Bhagavad Gita 18:61

Think about it 3xi, you dont make thoughts, thoughts 'dawn' on you, and you dont generate
deeper thoughts, you 'entertain' them. The higher thoughts are coming from elsewhere and
we are tuning into them. Even the actions your body performs are not yours to control,
the process of moving a single finger happens as an insanely complex, almost instant
firing from the mind through the CNS and it's as if you only react to the whims of the
mind and body rather than act on them in a position of control. So why is it that some
people react positively more often than negativley, and some react the opposite?
I would dare to say that its because some are more in tune with direct intelligence force
governing Nature while others are generally unaware of it. God is what you allow to
take over your awareness as it is already in control of your body, and teaching the mode
of goodness is just a step in that direction. A meaninful one, but only so long as you
need it to be. Afterwards it happens of its own accord and becomes irrelevant.

 

relayer, you can pick me up for homosexual relations anytime.

i love the idea of the field and the knower! that is so perfectly how i experience it and feel it; we are but a subset of everything, thus not only are we in awe that we can but touch the hem of this towering, chaotic, destructive, erect, moist, caring, plush, fragrant, sharp LIFE, we are also by the -very same stroke- made to understand that not only are we one with this Field, we are the Field as well. I am the knower and the known . . . which of course then makes you wonder, those other parts of the field, the ones we think of as the known rather than knower . . . perhaps there is as much subjective knowing in those parts as in our parts.

i think that if you consider 2 facts about this universe (1) consciousness exists (2) everything comes from something, it may suddenly become not only smart but insanely beautiful to think of consciousness as simply always present in matter (and maybe even energy! maybe even spacetime!) if only in an inert state, and that this omnipresent quality of the universe simply behaves like any other, in that it is found in greater and lesser concentrations throughout the field; we are but swirling eddies and waves of this true nature of things, a temporary and even accidental accruation of simply the most basic *stuff* of this realm; perhaps the only nature that matters, perhaps simply the highest level of nature; i embrace anything that is both deeply humbling and deeply empowering. That is a sign of beauty, and beauty often resides in truth.

I think it's time i read the Bhagavad Gita

 

I've seen this brought up before, how consciousness is not matter, nor is it energy. This leads to the question, well, then what IS it? I'm starting to believe that consciousness, is in fact, nothingness.

The more I walk down this path, the more I realize that the only sublime truth is consciousness, and by sublime truth, I mean, perfect awareness, beyond temporal and dualistic distortions. There is nothing that can be perceived that can be real, IMO. This leaves me with the conclusion that the only truthful reality, is that of the perceiver, the you-less you, the impersonal you, the uncompartmentalized sense of "I" that which cannot be broken or seen.

I've always found it humorous to hear people talk, and to listen to them in esoteric terms. We use all this words, "me", "you", "I", "mine", but, ask someone simply "Who are you?" and they wont be able to answer.

"I am my mind." If you are your mind, then how can you own your mind, how would you be able to say my mind. Who is in possession here?

"I am my soul, I am my feelings, I am energy, I am this, I am that."

None of these things can be true. All we are truly left with, the one eternal, infinite TRUTH, is simply, consciousness.

 

Yea, I think you would love the Gita.
There are so many different schools of thoughts involved with it, and they all interpret much of it in as many different ways possible. But Sri Yukteswar once told Paramahansa Yogananda a story about a guru who taught his disciples outside sitting under a tree, to go deeper. He would read just one short verse, usually only a single sentence, and then tell them to meditate deeply on just that single verse for 30 minutes, or an hour, sometimes even longer depending on how esoteric the verse would be. And then, after the time of silent reflection would pass, he would say to them "Who understands this verse?" and if someone said they did, or even worse, tried to explain it lol, he would tell them to go home and meditate on that single verse indefinitley. He would tell them something along the lines of "How can this be understood, this which has brought people together for thousands of years, the perfect teaching..." etc.
Basically, the moment you think you grasp Krishna, you are lost, because it is only through direct experience of the Knower of the field that Sat Chit Ananda can be realized.
I remember having a discussion with 3xi sometime last year about Krishna, and the friction stemmed from his perception that Krishna is a deity to be worshipped, rather than the formless Absolute that I take His form to represent.

 

That's it Josh.
Aum Tat Sat
"All That Is" also, "God is Truth"
And as it applies to us,
Tat Tvam Asi
"Thou art That"

 

This post is not evidence of any sort of higher understanding, this is evidence that Mr.writer does not fully understand the topic of discussion.

Although I'm sure Mr.writer's on the right track, this post as well as others shows us that he does not understand the role that karma plays in our lives. In a way I think he does understand but for some reason he's too concerned with trying to discredit what I have to say instead of trying to understand what it is that I have to say.

You can tell when someone is just repeating what they've heard elsewhere as compared to someone who is speaking from their heart. Like I said, I'm sure he is on the right track but he is not quite at the point where he fully understands these concepts that we are discussing.

I'm happy, as it seems that this thread has somehow snapped Mr.writer and probably a few others out of their delusion - or least helped them understand themselves and what they are saying better so they don't sound so delusional.

 

This quote is enough to discredit this source, as far as I'm concerned.

A person with psychotic tendencies or selfish and evil desires could very easily justify their actions by thinking that it is not their choice as they are just acting out what nature wants them to.

When a person takes responsibility for their own actions and they realize that there are consequences to our actions they tend to make better choices in life.

I could see serial rapists and murderers finding some sort of comfort in reading this Bhagavad Gita and that is enough for me to know that this is not a good source for truth and the understanding of karma.

We have a conscious will and the choice is ours as we will most definitely learn through the consequences of our own actions!

We have free will! We are not just mindless puppets! Take responsibility for who you are before you wind up a sack of shit!

 

And I guess your belief in karma is discredited as well, considering that the Gita is where it was first taught?

 

OK so right off the bat I'm just gonna ask why you're refering to me in the third person? You know you can talk -to- me right? You sound a little full of yourself when you do this man.

Oh I understand 100% what you think. I just don't believe in karma like you do. I believe in something much older, much deeper, and much grander.

"Karma" as you use it is just a cosmic accountant for morality. That is laughable. Last year I had 400 negative credits and 545 positive credits. Net credits 145. I will be upgraded by 145, so I will reincarnate as Jude Law.

OK here's another thing you do that's not only rude, annoying, but also very sad on your part. Instead of just being an adult and addressing my points and having a nice discussion with me, you step back and question my motives. SO WHAT if I hate you? SO WHAT if I just want to be argumentative? What does that have to do with what we're discussing?

PS. I couldn't care less about "winning" on the interthreadz with you man. I'm trying to discuss something interesting here.

Funny, as I'm the one who is actually addressing those concepts, rather than jumping right into the good ol' Ad Hominem. Honestly dude, look in the mirror before you post stuff that applies to you more than anyone else.

What on earth are you talking about? The only thing I learned from this thread is that you have the amazing ability to jump between utterly disagreeing with someone, to agreeing with them, to utterly disagreeing.

My position is unchanged 3xi. This thread has been me trying to explain something to you, then you turning around and telling me that not only is what I say wrong, it's immoral, and it's not worth listening to anyways because I'm only saying it from hatred and ignorance. Wow, great. Lots accomplished there.

OH NOES~ You mean like how most of the billions of people on this planet do every single day since the dawn of time?

THANK YOU for finally making your error so clear and succinct. See 3xi, this is the fundamental rift where I differ from you. You see the universe as "Me, and Nature, and Karma", and these 3 things are always interacting in neat little ways. What you don't understand is that you are nature and nature is you, and that it is IMPOSSIBLE for you to act "against nature". What would that even be?! How could somebody act "against" that which they are by definition? It's like a square being circle; it's just a sentence that has no basis in reality.

When you understand this, then you understand why "karma" is a suspect concept; it has built in duality. "There is Good, and there is Bad, and these are somehow somewhere known presumably, and depending on which you do, you will be Punished or Rewarded". It's a little more intricate than that man. We are all one; nature, me, you, a rapist, a dead child, a new flower, this website, your next sandwhich . . .

Right, which is so much easier when you realize that hurting people is wrong NOT because there is some God v4.0 out there who has a 2 volume edition of Karma(c) and metes out appropriate answers to our actions, but that anything you hurt is you in as real a sense of the word as your left foot. You can call that psychotic, I call it the most natural morality there is.

This is exactly what the Taoists faced when they tried explaining to Confuscianists why their morality was bankrupt. The Con's say "You should be good to your neighbour because otherwise you will be punished and if you're good then they might help you in time of need blah blah blah". The Taoists say "Be good to your neighbour. Why? Because it's good to be good."

The fact that you have as a criteria for Truth "Does not give comfort to sentient life which has harmed sentient life" is just so cute. Maybe one day you'll see that Truth is too old and too deep to give a shit whether or not you've ever stolen a lollipop. Truth is a towering tidal wave that smashes everything that has ever existed into action.

Agreed. And it's amazing that we, sentient beings (with supposed "free will", as though the old debate between that and determinism is not a complete joke in the first place) can understand that we form merely 1 thread in the tapestry of Existence.

Unmon, a zen master, when asked what Buddha (truth etc) was, replied "Dry shit on a stick".

I hope, that there is hope for you.

 

wow, there is so much here. this thread is a monster. i dont know how to quote multiple people in one response so ill have to make a few posts here.

he did say that "
and the one which the simple minded like
to twist around to mean an excuse for being lazy and brushing off responsibility.
It has nothing to do with that, and everything to do with going beyond ego death into
the mind of Nature, then Christ Consciousness, and finally Brahma realized, or
Sat Chit Ananda."

 

alright well just because we can never truly be 'wrong' it does not escape us from the fact that there are consequences to our actions.

because its good to be good? what what is good? good is a summary of what we have learned from the consequences of our actions. how can anything be good or bad without any consequences?

"Someone told me once
That theres a right and wrong,
And that punishment
Would come to those
Who dare to cross the line.

...

Consequences dictate
Our course of action
And it doesnt matter whats right.
Its only wrong if you get caught."

i dont beleive i could have put it better myself. ill elaborate some more.

karma is a consequential system. it does not see right or wrong, only actions and reactions. we simply term a set of actions and reactions as right because it has a beneficial influence. without this benefit, we would not be able to call it right. without the reaction, we would not be able to see the benefit. the same goes for negative reactions.

so while we may truly never be wrong it does not escape us from our consequences. and as long as there are consequences for our actions there will always be a karmic system, and a right and wrong.

i think maybe you have miscontrued the meaning of right and wrong within the parameters of karma. there is a positive and a negative direction to take. however just because it isn't wrong to take the negative direction, that doesn't mean that is a path that is ok to be taking. one should realise that the positive direction is the correct path to take.

 

Go to the quote post field, hit the a/A in the top corner, turn the field white, copy and back-key/out. go to the next quote field and paste the one you got, a/A again, copy..
dont forget your Milk.

 

This is exactly why systems like confuscianism have been put in place; people have convinced themselves that they don't know what good is. Sometimes the system itself insists that people don't know what good is.

The truth is that every single sentient being knows what is good and what is not. They still choose not good very often, but they know that in their heart.

I think you and 3xi should read through this little dialoge between a moralist and a taoist.

http://www.skepticfiles.org/mys5/taomoral.htm

 

damn i almost forgot.

 

yes but i have a problem with your saying that killing is good. because i dont think anyone here would say that it is.

 

well sometimes you have to kill a plant to smoke it. Think of all the seeds you eat, as they too are could be Life...

 

indeed but harming or taking sentient life is hardly 'humane'

tackling the beast of 'what is sentient life' is another dragon entirely. lol, maybe we will have to get into that as well.