"LMAO! Wow you are a geek, arent you? well maybe if you paid attention to my original post, rather then jumping all over me like a lesbian, you would have realized i said "if you just heard the first album, you might pass it by saying its another nirvana rip-off", notice the word "MIGHT", i didnt say that's what i thought, i said you MIGHT think that. hey man i love the pumpkins, (alittle less now, that i see they attract weirdos like you, but i still love em) and i NEVER said they ripped off nirvana." "he blended 60s garage, 80s thrash, and 70s rock, not to mention the way he doubled the bass line with the vocals, he created the grunge sound that the smashing pumpkins, alice in chains, pearl jam, sonic youth, and so many other bands of the time copied." No, you never said that. Sorry for the false accusation. And I'd rather be a geek and know what the hell I'm talking about than shoot my mouth off at every opportunity. "oh, and nirvana's album "bleach", although nowhere near as succesfull as "nevermind", was a substantial release, just because its not on the top ten, doesnt mean it doesnt reach and enfluence poeple and bands" Even so, Smashing Pumpkins formed in 1988. Nirvana released Bleach in '89.