Sleeping your way to the top

hmm, what if the boss in question was female? Just saying... a lot of people on this thread have assumed that the boss/promoter would be male. Yeah, the chances of sex for a promotion exchange are higher where the boss is male, but I'm sure it could happen if the boss was a chick.

 

actually i think there has been research into the fact that a higher percentage of people working in the "sex" work field have been abused in some way or another. not all, but a higher percentage than in other jobs. maggie might have a hand on that research.

 

I did a quick google, and the only statistics I could find were for street prostitutes. That figure was 35%. According to my Sociology of Sexualities text, the rate for the general population is estimated to be 1 in 8, which works out to 12.5%

The methodology of this research is often badly flawed, however, for a number of reasons:

First, the survey sample often comes from arrested prostitutes. And there is a world of difference in history and circumstance between someone who would model for photos, someone who would appear in hardcore porn, and someone who would sell themselves on the street. These figures just don't apply universally.

Second, abuse is generally under-reported. No one really knows how much occurs.

Third, people in sex work tend to be more liberal in many ways. They talk more openly. Someone with a higher comfort level discussing sex is going to be more likely to disclose past abuse than someone from a more restrictive background.

One final note: don't trust others to feed you your facts. Don't assume that someone else has the answers. Look it up yourself, then check the methodology and agenda of the sources you reference.

 

heh, don't even trust statistics to start off with... people lie all the time, numbers are constantly twisted around to make certain points, and the entire population is pretty much never polled/surveyed/etc. It's more of a guesstimation than actual fact for a lot of things (except for when you start off with numbers... economic stuff, stock markets, GDP, etc are slightly more reliable)

 

I would never sleep with someone to get a job I wanted. But everytime I've had a male interviewer I've discretely flirted my ass of and it's worked. I know flirting and sleeping with someone are very different but both are on the same page also, you're using your sexuality to gain something. Is it really wrong though? I mean it is one of the few advantages I posses as a woman so why not use it?

 

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This is somehow defended as a "career choice" by some? ​

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Dodger, what is the fact that at least 75% of people in the "sex industry" were sexually abused as children somehow defined as "stereotypes?" I don't get it, if someone is sexually assaulted, it wasn't their faut. It isn't a "stereotype" it's a fact, when children are raised in unsafe enviroments, they are more likey to think they are worth nothing more than the "pleasure" their bodoes can provide for others. How could this, which is FAR from a profound revalation, make you angry? Sad, yes, Angry at the people who abuse children, and use and violate others, SURE, but why shoot the messanger? I am totally perplexed at your reaction. ​

 

Really? Isn't this comment, in itself, a stereotype?
"People in the sex industry are more liberal?" (Thus, in the thoughts of many "better" than others?) C'mon.

 

being a partail business woman, I do know that when it comes to ordering materials, getting good prices and whatnot, it helps to be an attractive female. It really does. I personally have flirted with a few guys over the phone to get a better price. A few giggles and a "please" never hurt anyone. Would I ever present myslef in a sexual way or sleep with soemone to get where I want? Absolutely not. It wouldn't be worth it. If I were to get a promotion (I have a female boss by the way) I would only want it because I have worked hard and I know my stuff. I think women who dress not attractive, but slutty, and even worse sleep with people to get ahead, are really cuttinh themselves short. All of us women are strong and can get anywhere with our brains and wit, not sex. Sure it's easy, but why take the easy path? Why not do something you can look back on and say, "wow look at all i've done and all I've accomplished" instead of looking back at all the sexual things you had to do to get where you are. There's no pride in that except pride in your body and beauty fades.

I would understand if I worked in a company that clearly showed women around me getting more for their looks. In that case, I would start a job hunt. I want to be employed by someone who respects me as an intelligent worker, not how well I can give them a hard on. I think any woman who makes excuses for this is just too afraid to apply herself.

 

oh my my my. we've just had this discussion many a time on these forums, and i knew i'd seen the research linked from maggie. i wouldn't act so surperior if i were you; trust me, i've done my own research into this before because i was skeptical myself. i don't sit around waiting for someone to feed me info.

and maybe you should try doing research beyond google (note the sarcasm, i'm sure you do, just making a point about assuming what others do and do not do)

 

One should always do their own research, and of course, get it from a wide variety of sources, knowing who they are. For instance I wouldn't take "stats" from the "False Memeory Society" which is a thinly veiled group of pedophiles, trying to assert that sexual abuse of children is either very rare, or that kids like it, or that they always make it up.

Yes, by all means do your own research. Get more than one source, though.

 

BRAVA! HMC!

 

"Liberal" is actually an insult in certain circles. As is "conservative" in others. Would you consider it inaccurate to call an atheistic nudist more liberal than an Amish person? Sorry, the term is value-neutral.

Lumping every kind of sex work together is a fallacious beginning to an argument. I said at the get-go that I don't consider modeling in an adult magazine to be equivalent to sex for money.

To assume that there is no reason to explore adult work besides poor self-esteem resulting from prior sexual abuse is pretty insulting. To equate modeling for photos, a generative, creative act, with giving blow jobs to get promotions is similarly insulting. This sort of sex-negative talk is part of why so many women no longer consider themselves feminists.

Bring me some figures on abuse stats for Hustler models, then we can start talking.

 

More on childhood abuse and the sex industry. Seeing as the majority of sex workers WERE sexually abused as children, this could apply to a great deal of them.


http://www.survivorshealingcenter.org/issue.htm

Child sexual abuse is a problem of grave consequence for society. There are multiple traumatic effects for sexually victimized children. Problems may include physical injuries, fear, depression, self-destructive behaviors, low self esteem, feelings of confusion, sexual acting out behaviors, nightmares, hostility, phobias, antisocial behavior, and socialization problems. Decades of research consistently document that adults who were sexually violated as children are also negatively impacted as a consequence of the abuse. The range of abuse related difficulties in adulthood includes depression, anxiety, self-mutilation, low self esteem, eating disorders, interpersonal difficulties, post traumatic stress disorder, and multiple personality disorder. Additionally, survivors of child sexual abuse are vastly over-represented among the ranks of prostitutes and other sex workers, criminals, alcoholics, drug addicts, and suicide victims.

Long Term Effects of sexual abuse in childhood

There are predictable sequelae to sexual abuse in the long-term. These are Posttraumatic Stress Disorder, Cognitive Distortions, Emotional Distress, Avoidance, Impaired Sense of Self, and Interpersonal Difficulties.

1. Posttraumatic Stress Disorder. Adult survivor have been found to display more symptoms of PTSD than do research subjects who were not sexually abused as children.

2. Cognitive Distortions. Studies document chronic self-perceptions of helplessness and hopelessness in adulthood. Further, impaired trust, self-blame, and low self-esteem are characteristic of the adult survivor of childhood sexual abuse.

3. Emotional Distress. Among adult survivors the symptoms of emotional distress include depression (a four times greater risk than for non-survivors; see Stein, et al., 1988), elevated anxiety (Chu & Dill, 1990), and anger (survivors score higher on measures of anger and irritability that do non-survivors; see Briere & Elliott, 1994).

4. Avoidance. Avoidance behaviors on the part of adult survivors cluster around coping strategies designed to help the survivor cope with the abuse-specific memories and feelings induced by the trauma of childhood sexual abuse. These behaviors include dissociation, substance abuse, suicidal thoughts and attempts (Briere & Elliott, 1994), impulsivity, self-mutilation, and eating disorders (Briere & Conte, 1993).

5. Impaired Sense of Self. The development of the sense of self in childhood appears to be negatively affected by sexual abuse (Cole & Putnam, 1992). Without a sense of self, adult survivors have more problems than do non-survivors relating to and understanding others and have more problems perceiving their own internal states independently of the reactions or demands of others (Elliott, 1994). These problems translate into a continuing inability to define one's boundaries or rights and are associated with increased suggestibility, inadequate self-protectiveness, and a greater likelihood of being victimized or exploited (Briere, 1992).

6. Interpersonal Difficulties. The interpersonal difficulties of adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse fall broadly into the category of problems with intimacy. These difficulties center primarily on ambivalence and fear regarding interpersonalvulnerability (Briere & Elliott, 1994). Adult survivors report greater fear of both men and women and experience less interpersonal trust than do non-survivors (Briere & Runtz, 1990), have fewer friends (Gold, 1986), experience greater social discomfort and social isolation (Briere & Elliott, 1994), experience difficulty with sexual intimacy (Maltz & Holman, 1987). The effects of childhood sexual abuse on survivor's later sexuality are thought to contribute to the high incidence of sexual abuse histories found among adolescent and adult prostitutes (Bagley & Young, 1987), many of whom view their current occupation as an extension of their childhood experiences (Briere & Runtz, 1993).


How Hustler and Playboy may rein in children:

"An unforeseen finding may be the estimated 27 percent of Playboy, 33 percent of Penthouse and 47 percent of Hustler cartoons and illustrations identified as 'Child Magnets.' Briefly, Child Magnets are features which are generally unique to the children's world of entertainment (e.g., books and television) and known to attract child readers/viewers. . . Since evidence confirms the large juvenile readership of these magazines, the unique quality of Child Magnets may be viewed as a technique both catering to, and attracting a juvenile audience. Therefore the depictions presented in 'Child Magnets' may be presumed to be of special public interest and concern."

--Judith A. Reisman, Ph.D., "Executive Summary," Images of Children, Crime and Violence in Playboy, Penthouse and Hustler Magazines, 1985.



Hey, it's not an insult to simply say that you may have been assaulted when you were a kid. I don't know why you are getting so weird about it, Dodger. A child NEVER has a say in a sexual assault, and it is NEVER thier fault. but knowing how that assault can impact you as an adult, and taking responsibility for it, it BEING an adult.



I can get more........

 

I dont know, it depends on alot I guess

 

Great conversation ladies and gents! Nice to hear so many different points, however, I get the feeling the people are putting talent, ability and education in opposition to sexual attractiveness but many women who "slept they're way to the top" were very intellegent and talented. Nell Gywnn, a Jacobean actress, is a great example of this. She was a trailblazer for women on stage at the time and was considered the most talented and intellegent actress of her time and yet she frankly admitted to sleeping her way to the top (she began life as a child prostitute!) and retired from theatre to become the king's mistress! Talent, intellect and ability can be closely tied to sexual attractiveness and should not be held in opposition.

Also, to play the devil's advocate, picture that you are a film actress, talented, intellegent, morally upright (having never used sex to further your career) and you meet a very powerful and important producer who also happens to be very very sexually attractive to you. If you have a fling with him you know that it will mostly likely aid your career as you will go from being unknown to him to being a former lover, yet that is not your main concern! You are actually attracted to this man before you have any knowlege of who he is. So what do you do? Do you sleep with him? Are you betraying your values if you do or exercising your sexual freedom?
...Just thought I'd stir things up a bit and take the convo in a new direction...
also, the moral and social concerns about pornography is a HUGE dangerous philosophical tarpit that is easy to get sucked into and I'm just gonna skirt around it for now

 

Flirting is normal, and sometimes can't be helped. Sleeping with someone is very different, just like ya said. I find that in a lot of my job interviews (I'm the interviewee, heh) I make myself be really outgoing and extremely friendly, which could be construed as flirting I suppose. It's never been my intention to flirt with someone for furtherment (heck, I don't think I've ever intentionally flirted, it just sort of happened).

 

I personally would enjoy being flirted with during an interview, it would make me less nervous. I think a mature individual would think with the right head, enjoy the moment and hire the right person based on merit. Then again, i was told by one of my professors that i am a liberal idealist.

 

I thought about it and I would only sleep with a man if I wanted too-- and them helping my career would just be a bonus. I could never do it with someone I wasnt comfortable around.

 

Most people would know. Your carreer would be tarnished. People would assume you slept with him just for the career benefits. The "affair" goes sour and he tries to ruin your career.

Fucking people who are superiors at work is ALWAYS a bad idea. No matter what profession you are in. So you are attracted to him. SO WHAT? Direct your energy elsewhere. One doesn't have to act on every sexual impulse one has.

JMO.