Should the Koran be banned?

Discussion in 'Protest' started by jezzasexiles, Nov 23, 2009.

  1. jezzasexiles

    jezzasexiles Member

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    That door swings both ways in Sharia law a woman is not worth as much as a man and no more than livestock!

    It even prescribes ways to beat them and what thickness of stick may be used - do not give me the bluster of womens rights!
     
  2. Kamran

    Kamran Member

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    All holy books have shit loads of contradictions. Stop being so closed-minded and revolving your moral compass over a book. Stop trying to be a good person altogether. You shouldn't need books to be a good person you just should be. You obviously can't be one even given guidelines you actually have to shit all over other peoples' while being an over analysing simpleton.

    Now, tell me how thick the stick should be so I can use it.
     
  3. jezzasexiles

    jezzasexiles Member

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    You can not compare the figures - Mistaken Christian air strikes - accidental killings of non-combatants - death penalties - a pittance compared with the death toll!

    Islamic terrorists staged nearly ten thousand deadly attacks in just the six years following September 11th, 2001. If one goes back to 1971, when Muslim armies in Bangladesh began the mass slaughter of Hindus, through the years of Jihad in the Sudan, Kashmir and Algeria, and the present-day Sunni-Shia violence in Iraq, the number of innocents killed in the name of Islam probably exceeds five million over this same period.

    In the last six years, there have been perhaps a dozen or so religiously-inspired killings by people of all other faiths combined. No other religion produces the killing sprees that Islam does nearly every day of the year. Neither do they have verses in their holy texts that arguably support it. Nor do they have large groups across the globe dedicated to the mass murder of people who worship a different god, as the broader community of believers struggles with ambivalence and tolerance for a radical clergy that supports the terror.

    There is simply no comparison!
     
  4. Kamran

    Kamran Member

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    During the Crusades, Christian armies slaughtered whole muslim cities when their troops were away. So they just murdered all those women, children, old and weak. Yeah, Christians are soooo righteous dude :2thumbsup:
     
  5. jezzasexiles

    jezzasexiles Member

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    The Koran is The Perfect word of God - how can that be contradicted?

    Surely by any reckoning that is not open to interpretation - contradiction - error!

    Or it is not The Perfect Word of God - is full of Sexist - Homophobic - nasty incitement to Genocide - Murder - Rape - Treason and Armeggedon!
     
  6. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    That is what people who believe in killing say. First, the bible doesn't talk. Second, in my RSV bible it is written, you shall not kill.

    As I say, your supposed facts come from too small a sampling therefore your view is exaggerated.
     
  7. Kamran

    Kamran Member

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    You seem to take thing very literally. So if you poke someone's eye out on accident are you prepared to give up one of yours? Because that's what the Bible says you should do.
     
  8. jezzasexiles

    jezzasexiles Member

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    It does say wear a veil - it does say Murder - Make war - Slaughter - Bind - behead - dismember - ambush - kill - do not accept as Friends!

    Any good passages are completely abrogated and cancelled out by the later bad ones!
     
  9. jezzasexiles

    jezzasexiles Member

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    Obviously you have not read the Bible either - if you quote the Eye for an Eye passage and take it in full it is neither instruction or bad!

    Read it!
     
  10. Kamran

    Kamran Member

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    I read the Bible and the Qu'ran. I have parents from both religions and they made me study both. All religions are pretty bollocks. If you're dedicating your life to a pile of paper than you should be more focused on saving the trees.
     
  11. jezzasexiles

    jezzasexiles Member

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    No you have not!

    A good friend wrote this - you would do well to read it!

    Muslims quote verse 2:256 from the Qur’an to prove what a tolerant religion Islam is. The verse reads in part, “Let there be no compulsion in religion; truth stands out clearly from error…”

    The Truth:

    The Muslim who offers this verse may or may not understand that it is from one of the earliest Suras (or chapters) from the Medinan period. It was “revealed” at a time when the Muslims had just arrived in Medina after being chased out of Mecca. They needed to stay in the good graces of the stronger tribes around them, many of which were Jewish. It was around this time, for example, that Muhammad decided to have his followers change the direction of their prayer from Mecca to Jerusalem.

    But Muslims today pray toward Mecca. The reason for this is that Muhammad issued a later command that abrogated (or nullified) the first. In fact, abrogation is a very important principle to keep in mind when interpreting the Qur’an – and verse 2:256 in particular – because later verses (in chronological terms) are said to abrogate any earlier ones that may be in contradiction (Qur'an 2:106, 16:101).

    Muhammad’s message was far closer to peace and tolerance during his early years at Mecca, when he didn’t have an army and was trying to pattern his new religion after Christianity. This changed dramatically after he attained the power to conquer, which he eventually used with impunity to bring other tribes into the Muslim fold. Contrast verse 2:256 with Suras 9 and 5, which were the last “revealed,” and it is easy to see why Islam has been anything but a religion of peace from the time of Muhammad to the present day.

    There is some evidence that verse 2:256 may not have been intended for Muslims at all, but is instead meant to be a warning to other religions concerning their treatment of Muslims. Verse 193 of the same Sura instructs Muslims to "fight with them (non-Muslims) until there is no more persecution and religion is only for Allah." This reinforces the narcissistic nature of Islam, which places Muslims above non-Muslims, and applies a very different value and standard of treatment to both groups.

    Though most Muslims today reject the practice of outright forcing others into changing their religion, forced conversion has been a part of Islamic history since Muhammad first picked up a sword. As he is recorded in many places as saying, "I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah..." (See Bukhari 2:24)

    Muhammad put his words into practice. When he marched into Mecca with an army, one of his very first tasks was to destroy idols at the Kaaba, which had been devoutly worshipped by the Arabs for centuries. By eliminating these objects of worship, he destroyed the religion of the people and supplanted it with his own. Later, he ordered that Jews and Christians who would not convert to Islam be expelled from Arabia. Does forcing others to choose between their homes or their faith sound like "no compulsion in religion?"

    According to Muslim historians, Muhammad eventually ordered people to attend prayers at the mosque to the point of burning alive those who didn't comply. He also ordered that children who reached a certain age be beaten if they refused to pray.

    Interestingly, even the same Muslims of today who quote 2:256 usually believe in Islamic teachings that sound very much like religious compulsion. These would be the laws punishing apostasy by death (or imprisonment, for females), and the institutionalized discrimination against religious minorities under Islamic rule that is sometimes referred to as “dhimmiitude.”

    Islamic law explicitly prohibits non-Muslims from sharing their faith and even includes the extortion of money from them in the form of a tax called the jizya. Those who refuse to pay this arbitrary amount are put to death. If this isn’t compulsion, then what is?
     
  12. Kamran

    Kamran Member

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    You're just denying that I read them because it interferes with your bigotry.
     
  13. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    Nor does the Koran speak, it is read and interpreted.

    Interpretation is not as reliable as one would hope because the word symbols we use to write truth are the same word symbols we use to write a lie.

    Judgments about good and bad are arbitrary to the one who judges, and give no essential information about phenomena.

    The one who judges does not find value, but evaluates instead.
     
  14. jezzasexiles

    jezzasexiles Member

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    If you had read the Koran and Bible you would know one is instructional and one is a guide!

    One says do not Murder one says Murder!

    One preaches peace and goodwill to 'all' men - and one says do not take some Men as your friend!

    Ergo you are either a liar - or did not read it right!
     
  15. jezzasexiles

    jezzasexiles Member

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    You may not mis-translate The koran nor may it be interpreted - this is Islamic Law!

    Punishable by death!
     
  16. jezzasexiles

    jezzasexiles Member

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    I will leave you with this thought!

    Verses like, “Slay the infidels wherever ye find them,” were issued during times of war, according to the apologists. They accuse critics who use Qur’anic verses to discredit Islam of engaging in “cherry-picking” (pulling verses out of context to support a position, and ignoring others that may mitigate it).

    The Muslims who rely on this argument often leave the impression that the Qur’an is full of verses of peace, tolerance and universal brotherhood, with only a small handful that say otherwise. Their gullible audience may also assume that the context of each violent verse is surrounded by obvious constraints in the surrounding text which bind it to a particular place and time (as is the case with violent Old Testament passages).

    The Truth:

    The truth, unfortunately, is just the opposite. This is why new Muslims and non-Muslims alike, who begin studying the Qur’an and Hadith, are often confronted with an array of disclaimers and warnings by well-meaning Muslims who caution that it takes “years of study” to fully understand the meaning of certain passages. Neophytes are encouraged to seek the "counseling" of a Muslim scholar or cleric to "help them" interpret what they read.

    It is not the verses of violence that are rare, unfortunately, it is the ones of peace and tolerance (which were narrated earlier in Muhammad's life and superseded by later ones). Neither is the “historical context” of these verses of violence at all obvious from the surrounding text (in most cases).

    In the Qur’an, constructs and topics often come from out of nowhere and merge randomly in a jumbled mess that bears no consistent or coherent stream of thought. But, with external references to the Hadith and early biographies of Muhammad’s life, it is usually possible to determine when a Qur’anic verse was “handed down from Allah,” and what it may have meant to the Muslims at the time. This is what apologists opportunistically refer to as “historical context.” They contend that such verses are merely a part of history and not intended as imperatives to present-day Muslims.

    But “historical context” cuts both ways. If any verse is a product of history, then they all are. Indeed, there is not a verse in the Qur’an that was not given at a particular time to address a particular situation in Muhammad’s life, whether he wanted to conquer the tribe next door and needed a “revelation” from Allah spurring his people to war, or if he needed the same type of “revelation” to satisfy a lust for more women (free of complaint from his other wives).

    Here is the irony of the “cherry-picking” argument: Those who use “historical context” against their detractors nearly always engage in cherry-picking of their own by choosing which verses they apply “historical context” to and which they prefer to hold above such tactics of mitigation.

    This game of context is, in fact, one of the most popular and disingenuous in which Muslims are likely to engage. Simply put, the apologists appeal to context only when they want it to be there - such as when the bellicose 9th Sura of the Qur'an, which calls for the subjugation and death of unbelievers, is at issue. They ignore context when it proves inconvenient. An example of the latter would be the many times in which verse 2:256 is isolated and offered up as proof of religious tolerance (in contradiction to Muhammad's later imposition of the jizya and the sword).

    Islamic purists do not engage in such games. Not only do they know that the verses of Jihad are more numerous and authoritative (abrogating the earlier ones), they also hold the entire Qur’an to be the eternal and literal word of Allah… and this is what often makes them so dangerous.
     
  17. m-roc

    m-roc Member

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    Oh the amount of ignorance in this thread. Educate yourself jezza
     
  18. SpacemanSpiff

    SpacemanSpiff Visitor

    cut and paste
     
  19. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    The Koran is interpreted all of the time in relation to current events, they call it fatwa. You simply do not know the facts.
     
  20. RooRshack

    RooRshack On Sabbatical

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    And Sharia is not part of the koran.

    Also, you seem to have just written that "...swings both ways in law law a woman is..."

    Obviously educated about your bigotry.....

    You say hitler hated christianity? he was stealing all the worlds christian artifacts, and used lots of anti-semetic christian rhetoric, like that or martin luther, in his propaganda. Auschwitz stood in the shadow of the cross.
     

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