Should the Authorities be allowed to spy on your computer?

Eh... my observation of your floor show makes me hesitant to even sound off but here goes:

I think the point is that most folks (yes, even the few law abiding ones out there) do not purchase a PC for the purpose of furnishing the authorities a window into their computer activity. It's a simple case of a presumed right to privacy. Now common sense says that in all likelihood that privacy will be compromised in one way or another- usually by marketing entities wishing to track browsing activities in order to tailor product or service promotion for an individual.

You post seems to link a strong desire for privacy to a presumption of guilt. An earlier response gave some common sense advice- not to draw attention to oneself. If my behavior and habits do not furnish any probable cause for authorities to access my computer from my front door then they should NOT have the means to access it through the network card. There is nothing at all incriminating on my computer but that certainly isn't going to stop anyone bent on incriminating me and if a desired for privacy is used as justification for further digging as you appear to think, then then all pretense of a free society can be thrown out the window and whether Big Brother is cyber-snooping can be numbered with the least of our problems.

Again, I doubt that my intent has little chance of penetrating what seems to be a rather inflexible mindset. In the context of what's happening in the world I'd hope that time and money resources would be put to better use than digging through browsing histories and caches of private computers.

 

i'm not sure what you mean by my "floor show"...

Anyway, i'd MUCH rather have 'someone' intercepting my emails, reading them, and sneaking into my computer to see what i'm up to,

than have another 9-11 planned and brought to fruition JUST because we must respect people's privacy.

Also, i have a question for you ~ do you know me from somewhere, or something? i suppose that you could call the certain knowledge that the only true privacy is in your own mind/thoughts "inflexible," but that's how most truths are, aren't they?

 

09/11 had nothing to do with personal privacy. Hell six months after 09/11 our immigration department issued Mohammed Atta a renewed visa.

 

I don't know you from any place and "floor show" was metaphorical. Your reply pretty much backs justifies my hesitance to reply at all.... we're all potential terrorists because well want privacy. Go to the extent and expense of spying on all PCs and the terrorists will simply find another means of planning the next 9/11.... and wouldn't the revocation of privacy and freedoms make those who abhor those intangibles victorious? Would it not dignify terrorism as a weapon that can effectively attack freedom at its very roots? If we do not have a system that respects and protects individual freedom and right to privacy then we have nothing in my opinion.

Yeah I'm one of THOSE people. Roll your eyes at my bleeding heart liberal views. I do not at all agree with your opinion but celebrate your freedom to express it. I do NOT believe for an instant that the authorities have the moral justification to perform any form of surveillance our PCs. There are greater threats to our way of life and freedom ongoing that they are doing nothing about if not outright aiding and abetting.

 

Giving up your rights in order to gain security? Please tell me you don't vote.

 

i say no , we have rights and one is to our own stuff even if it is on the web , now if it was a post of a site that had red flags then so be , but this forum or any thing should be Big Brothered by any goverment . Off the grid is what i am for , not for the gov to put money into things just to watch every move we make like the men in matrix hell no . Freedoms of space were no "Big Brother "

 

We already know that 'they' invade our privacy, right? Even though we have laws which are supposed to protect us, right?

So why is it such an offense to you that i recognize that fact/truth, and live my life accordingly? It's just that i'm looking at it realistically and you're looking at it ideologically. To my way of thinking, if i have nothing to hide, why wouldn't i cooperate?

If you want to make noise about how things just aren't fair, and 'correct,' be my guest. It doesn't stop the fact that, if there is a reason for 'them' to suspect you of something, they ARE going to invade your privacy. And if the whole point is to frame you for some crime? i doubt very seriously that you'll be able to stop 'them.'

 

Giving up your rights for whatever reason is a slippery slope. Power corupts always and the easier we let them take one right away gives them precidence to take another then eventually all.

It has nothing to do with terrorism or any other boogieman they try and scare people with next. It has everything to do with complete control of the government over the citizens. Think back how the rulers had basically all the power over the citizens a few hundred years ago and when the people rebelled they were allowed some rights (usually only after uprisings or civil wars). When they start taking them away from us we will be in the situation of needing an uprising again, but this time all the personal weapons that people have will pale in comparison to the governments smart bombs and ROV's that will be able to destroy us without even putting them at risk. Then we will be called insurgents and the people left that accept the governments position will call us criminals anyways.

 

If we do nothing to protect our rights then we deserve what happens to us. Why in the world WOULD I willingly cooperate with the violation of my (presumed) human rights?

How endearing that you believe that your opinion registers with me at all. Cooperation with the violation of what is to me a fundamental right makes me party to it. This is simply something I'm not going to do. If "Big Brother" is going to make it his business to spy on me then I'm going to make it my business to be a royal pain in his ass... to hopefully do everything I can to make it such a bother that it simply is not worth it.

Oh very true but I simply do not care. Losing my spine and allowing my privacy to be steamrolled makes me a party to the problem. Your opinion of my stance means no more to me than my point of view means to you... so flatter yourself if you must that I'm supposedly so rattled that you appear to have chosen the role of enabler of the government's taking away fundamental freedom in the name of security.

I have to openly wonder what about our freedoms of privacy that would be seen as such a threat that those in charge would act to curtail them. I'm no terrorist and I'm reasonably sure that you're no threat to our safety either. I see many things happening that require more urgent attention if our way of life is any sort of priority. Most of what the federal government has done reflects that quite the opposite is the case. To me this places that entity as a strongly adversarial force that is itself the main threat to my liberty and as such the first on my list of things to protect myself from. In short, they have abused their power to a point that they are more of a danger to me than any terrorist. They are the enemy in my opinion.

Whether this changes in the next administration is highly debatable. Yes I voted and you can probably guess who I cast my ballot for. I hold out little hope that much will change for the better but the chances are infinitely greater than sticking with a course of action and policy that seeks to cultivate a sense of paranoia by focusing our collective attention on presumed external threats and have us lose our freedoms and rights so that we might feel as though we were safer.

"A society that will trade a little liberty for a little order will lose both, and deserve neither."
-Thomas Jefferson

 

A large part of cyber snooping has to do with the fact that people want to sell us more stuff and tap into niches that are out on the web. There are extensive amounts of biopiracy practices taking place all over the world.

People go to Brazil to find out what local medicines the people are using there, they take it, bring it back and patent it.

The same type of activity is occurring online. People are collecting data on my internet habits, the information that I browse, and are establishing a framework of stuff to sell back to me. Whether they are feeding me information or actually trying to get me to buy a product is irrelevant. It's all the same method of force-feeding people with a bait and switch maneuver to gather the necessary information to use against me as if I'm none the wiser.

 

Your immature condescension and insults are duly noted. (Sheesh, and you're a moderator??? )

i keep speaking about my own, personal feelings about whether or not the things i put on the web and on my computer are secure from prying eyes, and how i would react if i was being investigated for something. Since i (as in ME, personally) am not involved in anything illegal, i would cooperate. THAT IS ME, and i don't insist that you believe what i believe.

As far as anything we put on the internet being *cough*sputter* 'private,' i think we all know that it isn't, so any expectation of privacy is sort of an empty hope.

And THAT's the reality.

 

(CLARIFICATION: In this post I'm wondering about criminal investigations/government spying -- not just cookies for marketers to individualize ads you receive. That doesn't really bother me.)


Does anyone know what type of spyware is used? Would a typical spyware detector/anti-virus product catch it? Plus, how would they get it onto your computer?

This is an interesting topic that I've thought about, but am woefully ignorant. I've often wondered if I'd know if there was spyware working on my computer that dodged my anti-virus software (Norton).

I guess once they get your IP address, they could tap you from your internet provider? They wouldn't even have to have access to your hardrive. But do internet providers allow that without a warrant?

I'd love to be more educated on this.

 

Apparently you feel that you and those with similar viewpoints the only ones allowed to be condescending.

If you feel that I'm abusing moderator status then I strongly suggest you PM the webmaster outlining your specific complaint instead of attempting to goad me into a flame fest on his forums.

 

Very true, but with the anti-tracking software, we're pretty safe, i think.

i'm sort of betwixt and between about that, too... (i know ~ What a shock! )

But if you think about it, wouldn't you rather see advertising tailored to things you actually care about, rather than things you couldn't care less for? (Although, the one's you don't care about are a LOT easier to ignore! )

i don't really fault advertisers for trying to get accurate market analyses ~ it's just that it does seem to become spying, and invasive, after a while.

 

My guess is that IF it is being used, it's not commercially available OR that the hardware is configured to allow the back door by default- and that attempting to close it would cause the system to be corrupt.

Qualifying the "IF"... it seems that possessing copyrighted material (music mp3s) would subject you to legal recourse. Simple solution would be to store those on an external HD and keep that disconnected from your main system and delete all mp3s from the machine which is typically connected to the web.

 

Since i haven't been condescending, toward you or anyone else (well, maybe MJ... ), i don't see how you presume that i believe it should be allowed for anyone. i don't, and i especially don't believe it should be allowed from a moderator.

When i report posts, i just use the little button provided and outline whatever it was that i took offense at. i don't report posts just because i don't agree with the other poster, nor do i report posts out of a sense of vengence ~ if anything, i hope the reports help to make the forum a better place for ALL of us.

 

Whether or not something is condescending is highly interpretive... I may have incorrectly read that in some of your response as clearly you did in mine. I'm human and will make mistakes from time to time and I suppose I should retract the "floor show" crack as that really had no place in the debate. I do apologize for that. Otherwise my opinions are just that. I regret that you may find them to be condescending and I shall attempt to assure you that it is in no way my intention.

Dealing with adversarial points of view can have the effect of entangling emotional responses where the topic gradually gets discarded in favor of trading personal insults. I know this because I've been known to get sucked into this myself. The problem is that such activity does nothing to support any point of view and it has the effect of derailing a discussion thread.

I cannot and will not back down from the opinion points I made (or attempted to make) in what I've posted... and I do not anticipate that you would either. Perhaps the PC itself represents the ultimate Trojan Horse that we all invite into our homes and if we believe that it's being used to spy on our activities then the ultimate defense is simply to not furnish anything that "Big Brother" might use against us... and I do anticipate that at least privately you would concur with that The fundamental difference is whether or not the government has a right to spy and on that we are firmly in different camps.

I do not at all agree with your stance but you do have a right to hold it.

 

Fyrenza haven't you ever read 1984, by Orwell? And the Jews were rounded up by Hitler because they had no rights to privacy.

 

Actually, several times.

i believe in privacy, folks.

i believe we should have privacy.

And in a perfect world, we would have COMPLETE privacy.

However, if someone targets you, for whatever reason, you may rest assured that whatever privacy you thought you had was, and is, nothing more than a mirage.

That is the reality of our situation. Whether we like it or not, whether we believe it or not, we live in 1984...