Should I dose again at all?

I base what I'm saying on my training and position as a CMA at an asylum for the criminally insane, where I provide patient care services and lead various social groups throughout the week, so maybe you shouldn't assume none of us have first-hand experience with this sort of thing.

ChinaCat, no one here is saying that karma and all that shit definitely doesn't exist. It really could man. And also maybe schizophrenics really are tapping into some sort of spiritual channel. Who am I to say they definitely aren't?
However, this is more than just about beliefs. There is a difference between what could be real, and what REALLY IS real. This is about real world people who are actually suffering from whatever schizophrenia may be, and the only way to help those people is to understand what is causing them to suffer through scientific inquiry. Speculating about the cosmic causes of mental disorders in the manner that you do doesn't really help anyone, and that is fine because you aren't a doctor. However, for those of us who are involved in this sort of thing, I know first hand that not only is that sort of behavior not helpful, it is actively harmful. A doctor cannot look at a broken leg, believe that rubbing snake oil on it will help, and call it a day. We have to rely on repeatedly verifiable hard evidence, because without it we can't repeatedly accomplish anything at all.

Truth isn't about a collective. It's about what can be proven. If it was about a collective, then the people who insisted that Galileo was a blasphemer would still be telling us that the Earth is the center of the universe. Do you know why we now know today that the Earth revolves around the Sun? It's because we can objectively prove it, time and time again. It can be proven by anyone, anytime, anywhere. It is not dependent on subjectivity, because it is OBJECTIVELY true, and that objectivity is what ultimately brings people together and allows us to solve real-world problems, not philosophical posturing.

 

to be honest, i don't think i could actually PROVE that the earth revolves around the sun

 

Yeah sure, newb.

Chinacat, I am basing what I say regarding you and Desos on what I have read from the two of you over the last year or more, not just this one thread. Frankly, you both tend to be all over the map. Desos jumps on whatever hippy revolutionary philosophy or book he is currently caught up in. You follow whatever the latest new age pseudo spiritual trend is. May I refer to your thread about 2012? Dude you are all over the place.

You have posted some pretty bizarre ideas that often have no basis whatsoever in reality. Like it or not, there are some things that comprise reality for everyone. In my opinion your not schizophrenic, just you haven't settled on what you believe as of yet, and are so eager that the world be more than it appears, you get swept up in new notions and ideas as they become known to you.
I think the main idea I would try to relay to you is to plant your feet firmly on the ground and come to terms with the everyday reality and maintain that foundation as the base of exploration and be a little more critical when considering new ideas. It is as if each time you read a new book or view a new video espousing some religious/philosophical idea you get caught up and scream "AHA! Thats It!" then try to incorporate it into your world paradigm as true and valid.
When I said you were being stubborn or closed minded, you are exhibiting those traits in respect to being critical or skeptical regarding some of the pseudo-science/magical thinking, not in regards to accepting new ideas. Problem is you too readily accept some of this stuff without applying critical reason and logic to them. That I believe is what Mr. Writer is also talking about.

And if you know anything at all about me based on my posts here on such things, then you know that I am very open to all possibilities, it's just that some are more probable than others. Some ideas work with what we DO know about the workings of the physical universe, what we understand about human psychology, and what we conjecture about spiritual aspects of existence. Some ideas don't and are just fanciful gibberish.

You should also know me enough by now to understand that I feel any and all ideas that look to lay blame for personal and societal problems at the feet of government, society, and politics, are in a large portion just a means of diverting personal responsibility.

As I said before, it's about balance. We don't know nor understand everything, but I can be certain that whatever new philosophies may present themselves to us, they have to work within the framework of what we do understand in such a way as to maintain balance and equilibrium. If it doesn't, it is false. That is just a fundamental aspect of the universe we exist within and are a integral part of.
Water always seeks it's own level.

 

the longer the posts get, the less i want to read

 

Sounds like a personal problem to me.

 

i don't think this is true. what about the next time we discover the world isn't flat, or that the earth's not the center of the universe? major, breakthrough discoveries like that destroy the framework of what was once "known."

prove it to me then.

science doesn't prove anything. it tests hypotheses. trust me, i'm a scientist:sultan:

i don't think most things can really be proven

 

You misunderstand and are looking at it solely from a literalistic perspective.
The universe exhibits some very specific traits that are seen everywhere. You could almost call them "fractal" because they apply at many levels in many ways.
Balance and equilibrium
First law of thermodynamics-Conservation of energy
Entropy
These and a few other fundamental things need to be intrinsic to new shit in order for it to really fit neatly into our known universe. Sure we discover new stuff and learn new ideas all the time, but if you think about it, they all will exhibit these same fundamental qualities. If a new idea does not, then it false.
Pork with your understanding of chemistry you should comprehend what I'm saying.
The examples you gave above were false because they did not incorporate those fundamental characteristic's, as we discovered with expanded experience and senses.
These principles also apply to the aspects of the universe and existence that aren't overtly physical in nature. Or at least I have always found that to be the case thus far in my journey through this thing we call universe and this play we call life.

 

This will never happen, though. I wouldn't even be able to settle on something if i wanted to. I don't waste any time settling in to a belief system. I just allow direct experience to be my truth-meter, and my intuition to guide my every step. Yes, it's true that i'm going down a path that is bound to be seen as insane by some.

But anyway, no hard feelings.

 

blah blah blah..

I think I've developed schizophrenia after reading this thread.

 

Yea..i'm burnt out on this thread. Good shit though.

 

William James says don't close your account with reality, and I agree. Einstein says imagination is more important than what we do understand, and I agree. So I wouldn't say new philosophies have to work within the framework of what we do understand, because that limits ourselves. They probably should and most likely will if they are true, but I like to imagine a new discovery that shatters how we believe the world works. I mean, we still don't even truly understand gravity haha.

 

i guess i'm not done yet, but this is an article i came across one day on gravity. i'm not trying to prove any point of any kind, i just found this interesting..http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/13/science/13gravity.html?_r=1&ref=science

 

we do need an objective standard to be able to prove truth, but that does not mean we should dicount all aspects just because of one little piece of truth. the scientific method is a culturally and individually biased view that is formed of the world where we create hypothesis based on our own observations. we poke here, and it causes this reaction. but it is all based on that action that we make which creates the reaction. this means that the reaction and the data that we conclude will always be based on the action that was made to create such data, which creates a less-than-complete view on the world based on our preconcieved notions. this can leave out the much more important aspects of life which are just simply too complicated to be pinned down to a piece of paper.

let me tell you guys a story about when i was living communally.

one time i met this guy and his daughter who was born in the community. they told me a story about when she was born. after her birth, the doctors diagnosed her with an expremely rare, and extremely fatal disease, which created blockages in her vocal pathway and her throat. the doctors said that it was impossible that she was going to survive, and gave her a matter of months to live. since this was such a rare disease, they wanted to take her in to research the disease that she had in order to furthur information about the disease. the father refused, and took her daughter home, to pray for her.

the doctors brought government action against the man for being irresponsible. but eventually the issue was able to be resolved out of court between the father and one of the doctors. the doctors allowed him to take his daughter home, even though there was absolutely no chance of her survival.

once she arrived home, everyone in the entire community prayed for her. hundreds of people prayed for her every day, with all their hearts. eventually, she made a miraculous recovery. after being taken back to the doctors and being examined, they stated that she had made a full recovery. this, was unpresedented. no one had ever surivived this disease before, let alone, a baby.

today she is happily married with several children of her own.

now, this doesn't apply across the board. but it is one example, of divine healing.

there are many forms of spirituality, and many deceptions that come along with them, but they cannot be disproven by the scientific method. we are all on our own path, who has the authority to say what is right and what is wrong?

“Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.” -Buddha

 

This is not true. I think all the time you spend around crazy people is making you a little crazy.

 

What bothers me is that FD wrote a raw and painful account of what happened to him and some of the posts here seem (to me) to trivialize his and countless other people's suffering through variations on it's all in your head, it's a cultural problem, and so on.

Schizophrenia and other mental illnesses are real and they're not culture-bound conditions. The suffering in uncontrolled schizophrenia is beyond belief.

Here's something of fucking value to the OP: Some people with schizophrenia get better, some stay the same, and some get worse. This used to be called the "rule of thirds" based on the idea that about 1/3 of people get better, 1/3 stay the same, and 1/3 worse. It's way more complicated than that, obviously, with gradations of symptoms, etc., but the concept is not without merit. And the medications are a lot better now.

And something else: Patients characterized with some degree of being "YAVIS" (Young, Attractive, Verbal, Intelligent, Successful) tend to get better. Note that success, even in the old days of mental health care, was not limited to job or school, but included social success, e.g., having meaningful interactions with others. Having 3 or more of those characteristics is a good thing.

And, call me old-fashioned, but I REALLY like to think and talk in terms of a person with schizophrenia or diabetes or whatever vs. schizophrenic or diabetic, etc. You see the difference (with even some degree of dehumanization in the latter), I'm sure.

Yes, praying for healing is great, but I wouldn't put all my money on that horse! How many people have prayed, fervently and corporately, to not die, to not suffer, to not be sick, and so on?

 

That's some heavy-duty shit. I bow to you.

 

fitting neatly into what we think we know does not equal correct.
and you aren't really talking about chemistry

 

i think that what you need to remember is that people here aren't criminally insane, just insane

hey! i do like books.. but i base my conclusions on my life experiences.

& for what it's worth, i'm not christian, lol. but i have seen incredible things done in the name of the bible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uppJfEmye58"]YouTube - Jerry Garcia - Cold Jordan

 

Sounds like a misinterpreted experience of the shiva, and in facing destruction we see our shadow, but we know why shiva is so fundamental to life.

 

I'm sorry to put it in spiritual context again, but it sounds like you're in purgatory if you catch my drift. Sounds like where I've been a lot recently, but I think drug abuse and snapping out of it, was a final kick for me. Totally negatively triggered by a psychedelic experience also involving out of body spiritual energies, which is why I like to use references like Lord Shiva (I was out in the woods and something came upon us that we all felt, but lest we not think it's natural, how exposed). Something of character and purpose consumes our soul, and does destruction. I may be a little more optimistic than you but I certainly think dosing a little higher soon again, will further benefit a completion of a loop. ThhhooooooouuuuuuuuuuuuuuugggghhhhhttttLoooooooooooopsFruuuuuuiiiiiiiitttlloooooooops

However based your belief in science of brain chemistry, brain genetics, and imbalances or more of a fluid framework of a human mind, you must be willing. And furthering any habits could really do damage....but fear not for neuroplasticity is here.