Shock Horror, BNP Racist!!

It's surprising how many people don't actually know how racist the BNP are. I have a friend who voted for them because of their anti-asylum seeker stance, but she's a lovely, kind person, and not at all racist herself. A lot of people who voted for the BNP were duped by their seemingly respectable image. Although most of us here already knew how bad the BNP were, a lot of people didn't, and for these people that documentary is quite ground breaking. My only concern is for the safety of the reporter. I'd probably leave the country if I were him, or hire myself some serious protection....

 

can the BBC do that type of documentry on anything? id love to see one done on behind the scenes of the labour party, or the conservative party. theyre just as bad as each other.

 

It seems to me that whilst the rank and file of the BNP are mainly racist thugs, Griffin is a little more clever, and his aim seems to be to shift the attack away from one made on purely racial grounds, and to emphasize more the cultural element, esp. in the case of Islam.

The unfortunate truth is that what he says may well strike a chord with many, esp. in the post 9/11 world.
I abhor racism and the violence and hatred displayed by such groups as the BNP, but I also worry that Griffin may be partly right when he says that Islam is a threat to western culture and values.

 

The radical elements of islam (because lets face it those are the ones that are the problem, not islam on a whole) are just as much of a threat to western culture, as the new religion of western culture, call it christianity, call it judaism, call it well...capitolism, which is what links it all up, is just as much of a threat to eastern culture. To everyone culture.

i dont condone the extream elements of islam, but they threaten us about as much as we threaten them.

 

Well - it seems that given the 'war on terror' we do threaten extreme Islamic factions! But the truth is that much as I dislike Griffin & co he is correct when he says that Islam was spread mainly by the sword, and there was in Islam from the start a militaristic element, which today is easily exploited by extremists.
The French government evidently see something of a threat, as they've recently banned the wearing of the hijab in schools.
There is a clash of cultures here. I don't think the BNP are right in their methods, and much of their rhetoric is simply hate. I do think problems may arise here in the future as a result of the basic intolerance shown by muslims toward western cultural values.

 

well considering that the French are led by their equivalent of BNP this is hardly surprising really.

And we can hardly say that Islam has a militaristic element without being sarcastic really considering Christian history who have spread themselves around with more bloodshed than any other religion

 

Well - at least the French were against the war.

As for the relative amount of bloodshed in Christian and Islamic history - Muhammad himself was a soldier, a man who personally took part in mass executions, and who encouraged his followers to 'martyr' themselves in battles fought with the single aim of establishing Islam. His immediate followers then went on to carve out within one generation, an empire larger then that of Rome at its greatest extent, the population being converted to Islam by force, following Muhammad's direct order.
This is historical fact. Christianity spread through the Roman empire in the first stages, hence there was no need for military conquest. Later on, the Church played a despicable role ( for one example) in the conquest of South America by the Spanish - but this was an abuse of the teachings of Jesus, and the fault is now acknowledged.
The thing is that where Islam is concerned, it could only be established, even in the Prophet's own lifetime by war and violence.

 

I think everyone knows the bnp are racists or they should do

I was reading a post on a thread in another forum yesterday and the poster who is a second generation ex-muslim pakistani was saying that he had seen the bbc programme and found himself in the strange position of agreeing with this nick griffin person who we all know is a nazi

but the thing is even the nazis got a few things right like autobahns lets say,
what Id like to see is the conservatives nick the bnp islamo sceptic outlook
they may not as one thing islamists have lots of is money to buy political influence

it would be nice to see the left stand up for secularism but I dont think theres a snowballs chance in hell of that happening .

what most of my friends think is, that its good that mr griffin has brought the matter up (even though hes a nazi )

but its important to point out that most of the most active critics of islam in this country and across the globe come from ethnic minoritys

salman rushdie was born in india -anwar Shaikh was born in pakistan and there are lots of others and they dont like nazis very much either

if you dislike islam there are groups you can join without joining the bnp and becoming a racist , islam isnt a race its a ideology you can be from any ethnic group and be a muslim so thinking that a racist organistaion is the best way to combat it seems a bit silly

 

True thank god! I must admit that I was expecting them to get more involved after their election.

So if muslims turn around in a few thousand years and say 'sorry guys, we won't do it again' does that make it ok? No, and by the same yardstick it wasn't ok for the Christians to do it, they just think it was excusable now because we weren't around at the time.

Hindu scripture can be very war like as well but they tend to be a pretty peaceful religion, Christ has almost no bearing on modern Christianity what so ever apart from having his name used. The grass roots of a religion are pretty irrelevant to how its followers behave, that's down to them as individuals and groups to decide.

 

I doubt you will see any apology from Muslims for their actions in the past. But my point is that they still retain the same old medieval attitudes, whilst arguably the Christian church has moved on a little way. Saying sorry might not change the past, but may influence the future.

 

I bet the Moors never thought they'd see the Christians apologising but they have, or at least have the decency to feel a twinge of guilt about their past. Just because they're warlike at the moment doesn't mean they always will be, I hope the same goes for the western world as well but we have set up quite a history of being a blood hungry bunch and we aren't showing any signs of slowing down.

 

if muslims were to give a apology for islam spreading by the sword they would very likely get called apostates and get killed because mohammed spread islam by the sword and told people in the koran that fighting is your duty even if you dont like it.

so I dont think it will ever happen and if it did it wouldnt be that important because all you would need is a mullah to come along at a later stage and say
the person who said the apology was wrong to say it

this is the problem with islam you have groups like sufis who have a reputation as being more peaceful, and people join them like much of india did, and then a mullah comes along and says your not following the true teachings of the prophet and in a debate the hardliners win because thats the teaching in the book hardline

and then you have the decendents of people who joined a less fundermentalist thing becoming fundermentalists.

thats why islam is more dangerous than christianity or buddhism lets say the main person in the religion jesus or buddha didnt personally kill and torture people
Im not that keen on christainity or buddhism but this is something to take into account

 

I think you're probably right here - it is something that needs to be taken into account. The facts of history speak for themselves, but it seems there is not much widespread knowledge of the history of Islam in this country. Moderate Muslims seek to gloss over it, but violence was there right from the start.

But thats not to say the BNP or other facist groups are right. In fact, they share the same authoritarian stance as Islam, and given the opportunity would no doubt display an equal violence.

It is the idea of freedom that Islam threatens, but facism is just as much a threat.

 

What is Islam though?

It seems to mean different things to different people.

I have many muslim friends who seem very lovely moderate, kind and open minded people.

One of my friends stood for the RESPECT elections and has been a campaigner for Human Rights for many years.

He believes in Freedom.

He also believes in Islam.

I gave out anti war leaflets with him at the local mosques in my town and everyone I encountered was lovely to me

My personal experience of muslims has been positive.

Love Clairexxx