Sexuality In Pagan Practice

Discussion in 'Paganism' started by nox_lumen, Jun 11, 2015.

  1. nox_lumen

    nox_lumen Member

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    Ok, so on of the motivations for me to walk away from Christianity was that the book made it clear that the faith had no place for my LGBT friends and family. Since homosexuality can be seen clearly in nature, I thought I would see more welcoming for this path in nature worship.

    Well, years of studying variations of worship in different countries and eras, and I still haven't really found a label that felt right past nature worship. There have been many a blog, forum, and Facebook page, years of historic research, and nothing quite felt like home.

    And a few days ago I read a blog post from a gay pagan that pointed out what should have been obvious yet wasn't. we, as pagans may not officially forbid LGBT, but we rarely talk about it, let alone make a place in rituals and ceremonies for it. It's just not part of the spiritual landscape along with lord and lady, reproduction and family despite the fact that it probably should be.

    So let's talk.......
     
  2. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

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    I read about a gangrape ceremony at a funeral of a pagan vking big shot. The girl was killed at the end. Check out Ahmad ibn Fadlan.
     
  3. nox_lumen

    nox_lumen Member

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    I did look at that. I'm not sure I would call it rape since she volunteered for the position.

    Then again the account of a Muslim can be argued over. Is the ritual accurate, or a scare tactic to make vikings look scarier in their practice than they were? Science may be able to verify the human sacrifice part, but the rape part remains suspect without further backing. If women were sexually active before sacrifice, were men? Were men also given strong intoxication? There were males in the sex trade, so if these were owned as slaves and prepared for burial rights, would it be in the same way as the woman?

    Since magic is a woman's art in Norse myth, but Odin and Loki use magic, would they be between genders? Loki gives birth to a horse, so would "he" actually be transgender? how does that concept affect the practice? If homosexuality was a great taboo in the culture, why did the new Christians in the territory have to make suck harsh laws against the practice?
     
  4. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

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    Any century old eye witness account of something there are little sources of can be argued about. This is not his only account on (for him) foreign practices though. That's why I said check him, the author, out if you find it dubious. He seems pretty legit and authentic to me (and many historians) in his descriptions. I mean even if he didn't use words like rape himself, he describes how the girl gets intoxicated, fucked by several men and then stabbed to death by an old woman. You may call it something else though :p
    I think the account sounds realistic where it comes to which person gets sacrificied with the dead chieftain and how they go at it. Sure the males may have drank intoxicated fluids as well, but does that change much? Why wouldn't vikings indulge in that stuff at a funeral ceremony? Are they getting fucked by several other people? Or stabbed? Lose their life in this ritual? It is a very intriguing account, and although it is very sensible to ask questions and verify as much as we can, to readily dismiss it as faulty or a scare tactic seems wishful thinking. People had all kinds of dreadful customs and ceremonies in the past. Pagans (gathering term btw) are no exception on this.

    Germanic gods and their mythology are just that. So no, Loki is just a guy, pagan gods often had animalistic characteristics, or the power to change form/shapeshift. About male gods using magic, that doesn't seem to make them transgender in any way. They could have a feminine aspect, of course, but that would be just that.
     
  5. nox_lumen

    nox_lumen Member

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    See, it's just that one of the very few sculptures archaeologist can attribute to Odin is a man on a horse shaped throne, with a raven on either side, but he's wearing women clothing. Some argue that it's can't be Odin because of the clothing, others say that because magic was a women's domain, to learn magic was considered womanly, so the clothing confirms it. Maybe it's not fully trans gender, but it is a grey area of gender if one of the highest gods is depicted in a dress.

    This is backed by documentation on weaving, directly connected to magic and purely a woman's territory. There are records not only of men not daring to enter the weaving room, but also of it being associated with life and death itself in a culture where women had the right to divorce and shield maidens. If magic is weaving, and weaving is the sacred domain of women, a man may have to "become a woman" so to speak, to learn magic. After all, weren't the majority of the males in this time warriors to some extent, not scholars or sorcerers?

    And as far as the sex and sacrifice go? I do see it as different if the sacrifice offers rather than being forced. I'm still not saying the human sacrifice could not have happened, just that some of the wording seems....colored by an outsider's views.
     
  6. Irminsul

    Irminsul Valkyrie

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    Paganism is very individual on interpretation.

    What I read vs what someone else reads may be interpreted very differently thus giving us a rich and beautiful way of life.

    I've never heard of many problems with same sex relations in paganism. Only the new neo Norse morons who associate this culture for their racial identity tend to completely misinterpret the values. But they aren't wrong either. I don't think any pagan is wrong in a sense, it's all too personal to the individual. That's what makes it great. :)

    My take? Nothing to worry about, in the days before mainstream religion, many cultures were ripe with sexuality. I read a lot, that women on women, was a beautiful adornment to many goddesses. ;)
     
  7. Mountain Valley Wolf

    Mountain Valley Wolf Senior Member

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    There are some indigenous cultures, such as among the Dayak in South East Asia, where transvestites are preferred as the shamans (to use a Tungusic term), because they walk both worlds of the male and female, and therefore are considered better adept to walking both worlds of the physical realm and spirit realm.

    I would suspect, but I cannot say for sure, that the may not make much distinction between a transvestite and a homosexual. I say this based on the fact that the Dayak speak an Indo-Malaysian language, and my knowledge of Indo-malaysian Languages is strongest among the Philippine languages in which it seems to me that there is no distinction---the word, 'baklat,' for example refers to both. I suspect that there is a conceptual distinction between a homosexual and a bisexual. But I am no expert.

    Perhaps a Filipino or Indonesian could clarify or correct me on this matter. There is an abundance of LGBT individuals in the Philippines, but there is also still a certain social stigma attached to it in civilized society there.

    I do know that in such Dayak communities, people who are not transvestites but become shamans, start dressing and acting like transvestites.
     

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