Sexual Frustration Vs. Separation/divorce

OK this turned out very long so I have decided to add a kind of summary of the "question" to the end where you can just scroll down, skipping a lot of what may or may not be entirely relevant. If you decide to skip, scroll down to the paragraph that begins with "Summary". Hope that helps

To begin, our marriage used to be what I would consider a normal, average one. Before we met I had never had a girlfriend neither had I been involved with anyone sexually. I was not a religious or even spiritual person, but for some reason I had the idea that I am supposed to wait for the one I am meant for and then make that special someone happy with all that I have "saved up" for her and her only, like, what I would give her would not be what I have been giving to others as well just the same. Looking back from a spiritual point of view today I would say this is some kind of karmic arrangement that I had planned exactly this way.

I "met" with my wife on a chat board. We felt some kind of pulling together I guess, on my part I would say she seemed to share my way of rational and logical thinking that is somewhat rare among women to the degree I saw in her. We decided to meet. I was (and am) an Eastern European living in the UK, she is also of EU origin except she is Slavic. Very different culture to mine, but she does speak my language fluently due to closeness to the border of their village. We both live in the UK now.

When we met, I was not looking at appearances. She ran to me and hugged me and held me for a while like that. We had "known" each other from the chat for less than 6 months and never had had a video conversation before. She was/is not typically a kind of woman you would fall in love with at first sight because of looks. She is not ugly, but not much femininity either. I would not declare her to be pretty. The way I would put is that I have gotten used to her appearance and find it normal. To others she may appear slightly on the unsightly side. To me she is beautiful now. The reason I have included this description here is to say that we did not decide to be together because of looks. I never thought of her as "hot", and while I am said to be handsome and am tall, I lack the musculature that would make a man sexy.

I spent a few weeks with her family. The next time we met we got married. I guess we just got along well. I was not an advocate of marriage, but it was necessary for us to live in the UK anyway. She really wanted to, so she bought the ring (with me present) and kind of "made" me propose. I do not mean I was coerced. It was supposed to happen, I just went along with it, like I tend to go along with everything live brings my way. I pretty much never initiate event, I would say I go with the flow of like, like driftwood, without much resistance.

So we moved to the UK, and a few years later we had a child, and another one a few more years later. Like I said I had not been with a woman before her, and she only had one sexual encounter before me, which was a "shock" to me at the time we were chatting online, as I was "expecting" someone similar to me, who would keep herself for me only. That moment she seemed like a "used rug" for a little while, even though it was one encounter, whatever the background of that was. The point here being that I had no clue as to my sexual preferences, except maybe that I wanted to give head. Which has funnily been one of the main sources of my problems in our marriage - I am kind of addicted to cunnilingus. And while (according to my research) a majority of women enjoy it, she happens to be (I would say not accidentally but decided pre-incarnatively) one of those that do not care for it. She does not outright hate it, but she does not enjoy it (except very very rarely AFTER I had been doing it for a while and mostly if I start using a finger as well).

This may seem a simple issue, like it should not even matter, and it certainly does not sound like a reason for splitting up. Indeed, I would have no reason to be dissatisfied with her if sexuality were not an issue. We do have the occasional argument, but she can be a very loving person, and I have this subconscious predisposition to try and be loving, despite me being more like a person with not much emotion apart from a kind of emotional sensitivity. I do not feel like, for example, giving hugs is natural to me, but I used to give her lots of hugs and kisses and they were simply me expressing to her in her language my appreciation of her. She is a lovable person who honestly expresses her feelings and opinions. I would say she is very easy for me to get along with were it not for a low sex drive and a disinterest in adding different kinds of "spices" to our sex life which for all she cares should be having sex 2-3 times a month using one of 2-3 positions.

But we know this is not sufficient for men, and is a source of frustration in most relationships (unless you are lucky enough to be with a nympho) and I would venture to say that this is probably the greatest contributory factor the divorces, even if implicitly, it lies at the bottom of most frustrated relationships, corroding it slowly.

The solution? I would like to express my thoughts about this in the next few paragraphs. I know open communication helps a lot. I admit, we never discussed this in an absolutely open way where we sit down and talk about this, I do feel that it would not lead anywhere I would like it to. Maybe I have unrealistic expectations, but I also feel that what I perceive as my own needs cannot be ignored like I pretend they do not exist, I have the belief that urges like this should find their avenues of expression one way or another. For almost a decade I have been using a wealth of methods to no avail making her aware that I would like us to have sex much more frequently. She is very aware of this. Maybe she is not aware of how important it is to me, but I think she is. She does "offer herself" more often than the 2-3 times a month that she feels the need to have intercourse/orgasm. But nowhere near to what I feel I would need. You may say this is some kind of a compromise already, but I do not feel this is a solution where it leaves me frustrated on a daily basis.

The other issue on top of quantity (or frequency) is quality. I am aware things cannot be forced on an unwilling participant, especially since my partner's free will (in this case willingness to participate) and enjoyment are of utmost importance to me. I cannot make her want to try a threesome for example. Once we had a superficial discussion of this and she passed (in an exploratory manner) the idea of taking me to another woman to have sex with, if that's the price of us staying together. She seems really intent on saving our marriage, it seems, if it were come to the point of divorce. Then she would be willing to make compromise, even though with what I would call a sour heart. She does not seem interested in my frustration otherwise. I have played a lot of my "cards" with her, some not so nice. We have had a few superficial conversations about the sex issue before, which only resulted in my attitude going cold for her - no more kisses, no more hugs. Saying that, this is more like myself. I do feel the emotion behind these gestures, I just do not express it with them. Not by holding it back though, do not misunderstand. I am simply more "me" by not expressing this way.

I am a very philosophical kind of guy, I explore possibilities in my mind 24/7, I investigate hypothetical scenarios, I analyse different points of view concerning just about everything, as a way of pursuing my life-long obsession with broadening my mind and expanding my point of view ever wider, forever chasing that elusive horizon. I have come to be able to accept and sympathise with just about anything and everything. Why am I including this here? First of all, she is the exact opposite. Also she is not interested in spirituality. We do not have a whole lot to talk about, even though we are good listeners, which helps a lot. Yet we could be in a content and happy and loving relationship if it were not for the sex issue. She has all she wanted (kids, car) except for our own house. I do not have big dreams, ambitions of aspirations. I feel like I should explore myself one step at a time, and until I have found out about myself from a sexual perspective I am not ready to move on. I need to have this side of myself sorted. And besides, how am I supposed to "want" a house with a woman who does not "love me enough to feel like satisfying me"?

Yes, this is the way I feel about it. She has told me on two separate occasions during some of these superficial conversations that "she could (or knows how to) but is not willing". Whatever that was supposed to be a reference to. You know what I think it was. When she first said that that's when everything changed in me. It hit me. Like a surprise, even though I figure I must have been aware of it or at least have that opinion subconsciously, after all it's logical? Could she have sex every day if she wanted to? Of course. But then again she "can't make herself want to" have sex every day.

The solution is very simple in some couples. She simply does it for him. I have read the comments of many women that do it out of love. Indeed, why can't my wife do it for me out of love? Maybe it's too much? This question has never left me alone. She says she does love me. So how does that work? I have read women giving head daily simply because they love their partner and seeing him satisfied and happy is enough for them to do it. (My wife has not done it for me to completion, not once.) Some will feel the will the practice and will practise to get better at things. Not my wife. I do not know how to reconcile that. Where is the love then. In her staying with me? I feel that's more to do with her being the type that never wants to get divorced. Also she has some kind of emotional dependence on our relationship, and on companionship in general. She feels some kind of attachment to me that she would not want to change to an attachment to someone else. She feels like she should only share herself (at least her presence/companionship) with me and no other. This does affect our sex life as well, as she does sometimes enjoy something in both holes, but would never want the "other thing" to be a body part of another man. I would be curious to explore involving another male for both of our pleasures, but she has some kind of fear of me discovering myself to have an interest in men, maybe ultimately a fear of me leaving her because I grow an interest in a different type of life. She does fear change like that in general.

Especially in the sexual field she seems old-fashioned and against explorations, maybe she would turn around with encouragement, I am not sure. But long-term solutions would involve changes to lifestyle that would be too large for her, even for pretty much everyone in our world today, let alone her. I have read quite a few stories where these radical solutions worked, and even a book that suggested that they should be the norm since they are the natural solution to what and who humans naturally are: "Sex at Dawn: How We Mate, Why We Stray, and What It Means for Modern Relationships" (also "Sex at Dawn: The Prehistoric Origins of Modern Sexuality") by Christopher Ryan.

So what are the possible solutions? As the book I just mentioned: communal living. Sharing rather than owning, as it happens in many "primitive" cultures.I have read stories of people who tried it and it worked. Saying that, I never read a story saying they tried it and did not work. In its simplest form, it would mean either a female joining a couple, to "share the load" that's sexually on the women. Another, for someone bi-curious or bisexual, or for ladies enjoying DP and not minding another male, two couples sharing a household. Possible problems with this solution would be finding the right couple who are suitable and willing, then there is the unwillingness of your own partner, even though I imagine bringing this up with my wife one day.

In Victorian times the solution was using prostitutes, which was even considered normal, considering the practise saved marriages and maintained them in a more stable, frustration-free state. Those days are gone, together with the general acceptance of such a solution, however as a solution it still stands I guess, although the problem with that is that it is not on-demand - You must go find or call and meet or invite.

In today's UK the solution is secret affairs, dogging, swinging, and the like, elsewhere, like in Germany and Sweden, regular group sex meets. I could imagine a life like that, it is possible to work around the kids, but I imagine these solutions are only solutions where the wife wants these or agrees with these. "Putting up" with it or "allowing" it does not feel like a right solution to me. That's the problem, she is happy with the way things are and would not be comfortable with any kind of change, and I would only want a change she can feel comfortable with where she does not force anything on herself for my sake. I understand this is a point where many would beg to differ with me, saying a man must lead, control, initiate, direct etc. and that this is what all women truly want, even those that express the opposite or that are leader types themselves, except maybe the domme types. I consider myself a sub, and feel comfortable with the woman taking control, surely there must be right female matches for my type? I realise I would make a great partner in a gay relationship, however I definitely know I need female involvement. Even though I am curious trying my oral skill on a male participant, which does feel like somewhat satisfying my longings to give oral to a certain extent (at least on an imaginary level), I do feel like I really need the contact with the lower female parts for both oral play and penetration.

Another solution that I have dreamt up is what I like to call "the house of orgies", where I share a communal house with others, each with our own bedroom like many already live in the UK, except this small community would occupy this house with the full knowledge and intention of creating a household where the main purpose of the sharing is sexual action. In my particular case there would be another male and 3-4 females minimum, each with high sex drives. Without going into the technical details of this arrangement, suffice it to say that this would satisfy the sexual urges of all participants on a daily basis. The only issue with this seemingly perfect scenario is obviously the wife and kids who do not seem to fit into this arrangement too well, unless organised in this fashion from the beginning with each adult participant agreeing. While I do not have the intention of leaving my family, I have felt in my present situation like I am simply an "underpaid aupair" for my wife, where I take payment in kind instead of money, and much less that I would agree to. I do spend a lot of time with the kids, who are "mine" biologically, however I do not consider them my property but free human beings, and most kids today see their parents separated or divorced anyway, yet they do grow up and become someone, they deal with what is. I believe I speak for many, if not most, dads when I say my attachment to them is not like a mother would feel. Yes I could leave them. Yes it would be hard for my wife and bad for the kids, whatever "bad" is supposed to be. Even though I believe what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, and it could turn into a success story for them all with great independence for my wife and a necessity for my kids to learn to stand up and survive better or something, I would rather see our family "saved" by us adopting a new different lifestyle while they are young. I even tell my wife every now and then half-jokingly that I am a underpaid aupair here. It is actually how I feel.

That reminds me of one of the solutions, having another female live with us, as an aupair would but apart from (or even instead of) helping with the kids she would help stabilise our relationship by providing what my wife can't, thereby saving a potentially happy life for all here. Sounds simple, and indeed would be simple. She would have her own room with unlimited wireless fibre optic broadband, and no housework would be involved, unless desired and agreed upon.

That in turn reminds me of my similar fantasies, when I have my ups of my ups and downs with my same-sex fantasies. This one involves me living as someone's "live-in cocksucker", where giving oral would be my only job at request any time. (I would imagine the more times the better.) I actually think I could live like that. Maybe not for long, I have not tried so can't tell, it's just a kind of fantasy. (I would imagine the more times the better.) I actually think I could live like that. I have no professional ambitions, no interest in taking part in the monetary system and the economy based on it, I have no interest in going out, etc. I am generally content staying in or around the house each day. I would make a good candidate I guess. The only argument could be me getting bored with that, but even though I try to imagine that, I do not see it happening. The only thing entering the scenario that I feel I would miss would be female involvement, but I am unsure how bad I would miss that next to an unlimited need for my oral services.

Or very similarly living with a couple as THEIR relationship stabiliser. Ideally with a couple where neither likes giving oral but both want to receive, I would be more than happy to satisfy them both day in and day out with great enthusiasm and the will to get better if and where necessary. I will happily take anal I believe, (I have had a play with toys a few times) and I have this inner longing to become a good anytime (no gagging) swallower. I do enjoy receiving, but as you can see I feel much more of a need to give. Yes, best would be to give and receive as much as possible, of course. I would not mind helping out around the house, I have worked as an au-pair for families before, doing chores as part of my job. I have even lived with 2 gay couples a long time ago, but never took part in any acts with them, simply stayed there or worked for them.

On a side note, sharing a home with another person or couple or family has the added potential benefit of the opportunity to share the burdens of a mortgage. All parties contribute, pay off that mortgage sooner, pay less interest overall, so the repayments can be stopped earlier and the salaries can be saved up instead from that point on.

My wife said once something like "I know all you want is for me to suck your cock three times each day but..." Yes, that "but", and yes she meant it in a derogatory manner, but then if she loves me and "knows" that is all I want, then why withhold it from me? It would improve my mood a LOT. Besides repeatedly pointing out to her my need for daily, sex, I also added that if she does not feel like giving any kind of stimulation with any part of her body, she may use that pocket vagina on me that I have. I told her again later and she said she never heard that before from me. I know she heard me the second time, but she never did what I asked for since - or before. Not once. Joining a couple where my presence would make them both happier and sort out my need to give lots of oral, would be something like a dream come true, like finding the puzzle I'm the missing piece of. It shows how important it is for me for those I live with to be happy, with me being exactly who I am, where me being me is a service to others enhancing their lives, their satisfaction, their happiness. Does it ever work any other way, without someone betraying themselves?


Summary: Basically we have been married with my wife for almost a decade, but I as a man am not just unhappy but frustrated on a daily basis with the low quantity and also quality of our sex life, of which she is perfectly aware, yet does nothing about this, but then in other respects she is normal and loving. The frustration is constant (I guess I have a high sex drive with a lively imagination and therefore lots of unfulfilled fantasies) and it affects my mood and generally my whole outlook on life, my ambitions (resulting in a lack of them), and so on. Essentially I am not being myself, and she knows that, but does not seem to be bothered by it, maybe waiting for me to "man up" and decide to either come up with a "crazy" solution involving us staying together, or leave and live out my fantasies? We have talked in some depth now and then and have used many sometimes not-so-nice "methods" of letting her that I need this, to no avail. Year after year, it feels like I am wasting my life, living HER dreams (raising kids, etc.) without taking out any enjoyment from it. Surely cheating and divorce are not the only solution? I have listed a few possibilities above that I could think of, but would love your view and opinions on this, maybe stories of what you have seen or heard of. I appreciate your time and contribution, many thanks.

BCLW

 

If sex is important to you, and you both aren't sexually compatible, it might be best to separate. Not advocating divorce, but when two people are totally on different pages sexually, the relationship will always be a struggle. Even for the person who doesn't want to have sex often, or at all, because they'll likely feel like they're letting the higher drive person down. And the higher drive person will always be frustrated. Sorry you're in this situation. :/

 

Too long, and too me me me!

 

Prehaps you talk too much and kill the mood

 

Yeah there is a selfishness in that very long post that is hard to ignore but honestly, if you already have these feelings then they are most likely going to become a serious resentment in the years to come. I would say you owe it to your marriage to to have a red flag conversation with her and tell her that this is the fork in the road moment. Then spill it without being intentionally cruel and giver her time to process it and make changes if she chooses to.

 

Dude, there are a million of these threads

 

Sorry, I didn't read to the end (of even the first para).
It's a universal story, which even a million years of evolution we haven't solved, the closest is marriage/partnership.
Either you are going to make a go of it with you wife, or you're going to f everything up and have to start again.
Which is what keeps me at home in the same bed as my wife and not being a dick hunting young pussy.

 

I'd invest the time to read it if the OP had more than one post.

But they're not coming back. This ain't my first rodeo.

 

How many posts exactly do you normally need in a thread to read the OP? Do you always check if there are more posts by the OP before you read it? And what difference does it make? You didn't want to read it but now that I post this you will?

Anyway, it feels great to see the replies, I am grateful for the feedback. I realise the basic underlying issue is the age-old problem of sex and marriage, at least as far as marriage goes back, Before that, it was as it was meant to be, the natural way, as it is still practised in many cultures among humans, and all other species we share the planet with. Being "advanced" and "civilised" intellectuals might not have worked in our favours in the end. I mean, how many relationships are free of these problems? And what percentage of humans live in coupled relationships?

The true source of the problem? The emergence of the ego? Intelligence itself? Must be something to do with the story about Adam and Eve I guess.

It is funny though. Just to give an update here. I don't think my wife read this thread, she's not like that. She would not open up my laptop and check my first bookmark on the bookmark bar and catch sight of my topic still being on the top here. I don't think that happened. However, about a week ago stuff changed. We started having sex every day. Well, we are making love really. Not sure what delivered the message. It must have been me coming back from the hospital appointment discussing my prostate issues and being scheduled for more tests. Nothing serious I hope, but not much to confirm anything at this point. I think she got worried. Then I took out the sex swing I bought months ago and put it up. She walked in and saw it in the living room and ended up trying it out. That was maybe 4-5 days ago. We used it again since. Also I was a bit more assertive the other day about having sex during the day while LO sleeps and the big boy plays in the other room. I was surprised but she agreed. Usually she says to wait till the evening, which usually comes and goes. The we did twice a day again. Today she said it's not bad being naughty twice a day. I did reply mentioning that's a sudden change all of a sudden after 9 years. She kind of denied it, not sure what. Yes I know the opinions here, that's me.

I also tried out the "create your own reality" aka The Secret, I did ask the Universe. (I have been a truth seeker for about a decade, and took it seriously, and well, the truth is weirder than you can imagine.) I wrote a list of 4 things I asked the Universe (aka as God) for. Stuff like that can actually work, especially when you tie it to ritual, like sigil magic etc. So maybe it's this at work. I wrote that list on the 2nd. I went to my hospital appointment on the 5th. I think I took out that swing that night. I ate her out real good tonight again.15 minutes I guess. I loved it.

Or maybe she sees this as a way to get me to change my mind about getting us a mortgage.Not sure now if I mentioned it originally, I did not feel we should chain us together like that while stuff is not feeling right for me. Yes I get the selfishness comments. She seems content though. With me in general. She's accepting, mostly. Needs to have a bit more open mind. We were joking around with getting others involved the past 2 days. Maybe she'll open up?

So what is it after all these years? The prostate issue, with the remote possibility of cancer? That made her think? Or did she get turned on by the swing? Did it show her how seriously I needed this? Was it The Secret? A realisation of how to get a house to make us happy/er? She does talk more about that mortgage, and the kitchen, you know, a good cooker and a larger fridge. I am not all against it. Or did she in fact read this thread or something I store on my computer (including the text of my original post)?

Anyone's guess I suppose. I do believe in Magick. The rest can be the way it works out in life so it doesn't just happen out of the blue for no reason. Though that's still how it feels. How long this will last? Oh, she did say, with all seriousness, that if I pick up 5 kilos she will give me blowjobs 3 times every day. Well, I could talk about what I think of that for about as long as half my original post. In very short: No, I don't think I can pick up 5 kilos. No, I do not find this very motivating. No she does not do it that good. Did she mean it like to completion? She's never done that. Don't think she could. Her mouth starts hurting, and I am not a huge fan anyway, maybe just never had it done that good. And how long would she keep up such a practice for? She even sounded keen. But if she enjoyed it, she could've been doing it. If not, then it wouldn't be the same, so useless, for me at least. I can always feel her through our sex, like how he feels inside, it's like magic. And if she doesn't want something or not enjoying it or hurting, I can't possibly enjoy it, not even physically. It comes across, she can't hide it.

I will finish there now. I have no idea where this goes. But I do know that there is only one constant in this universe: change. This is part of it, something had to happen sooner or later. It's been long enough. Why this? I don't complain. If you like the idea of asking the Universe, then there is a book I recommend, apart from The Secret (also docu on youtube). It is the Conversations with God books by Neale Donald Walsh. Don't let not believing in a god stop you. Read without prejudices. Replace the word God with the "the Universe" or something similar. I will try and keep the thread updated. So long.

BCLW

 

Dude?!

That opening post is dated a week ago. You are now telling us everything turned around, pretty much straight adter that novella length first post

What a wonderfully magical co-incidence

Is any of this true? Do you even have a wife?

 

Trust me, it sounds more out of fantasy to me than you can imagine. If you want to know, everything I wrote in the original post as well as last night is true. Let me ask you: what if it weren't? With so many people on this planet, the same story would be true for someone, somewhere. Does it matter who this happens with and when? Yes, that was the case a week ago. And you know what my thoughts are about what happened since? That this is some kind of a short period that happened because of maybe the hospital visit. I'm due for a checkup again in 4 weeks. So if I come home and my level in my blood are back to normal and my prostate is safe after all, I guess she will be like "well, no need to pack in as much as we can any more, we can relax". Or she just gets bored with the high frequency. You know, back 6-7 years ago before we had kids, there was a period of a few months when we would have sex 4-5 times the same day. Only occasionally. And she used to take it anally more frequently too. That didn't last. Why would this. Honestly, if I am to look realistically into the future and look back say 3 years from now, do I see myself looking back at 3 years of constant sex? I seriously doubt it. A woman with low sex drive does not just turn into a nympho. We simply experienced a spike of frequency in sex for whatever reason, and even if her reason is to stay for a while, I believe it would be realistic ta assume that my original post will be back in the position of the defining statement of our life for very soon. What that will lead to ultimately, I wish I knew.

If I come back in a few days to say her overactivity is over, would you be surprised to hear that? Is a temporary increase in frequency so impossible? By the way, after years of "no thank you" to a hypothetical third child, a couple days ago she asked me what I thought of maybe having a third one after all. This just popped into my mind. Also she is in her thirties. It is my understanding that while men have a higher sex drive in their twenties, women tend to develop a higher drive in their later years as their fertility nears its end. Did we just reach that point? I would hope so, even though I have no idea how long this kind of increase usually lasts for.

I wish I could come back here in 5 years time to say the last 5 years have been heaven on earth in spite of the 9 before that. You may disbelieve all you want. I simply share what I live. I'm sure there are many millions in similarly frustrating relationships and many of them will experience temporary glimmers of hope every now and then for everything to just go back to normal sooner and later. After just 5 better nights, I would dare say, my original statements still apply. I am gullible by nature. But for me 5 days of hopefulness does not obliterate 9 years of desperation. We will see.

BCLW

 

And there it is

 

I did express my disapproval of another child, and she keeps taking the tablets, but keeps on offering her "services". Yes, I think this question had a more complex answer than a single factor being it. I said "was" because like I said this whole thing is turning into history as we speak. I think she had been intending to give this idea (of offering herself up on an almost a daily basis) a try for a while, originating with one of the reasons we mentioned (or another) but not being enough of a motivator on its own. Then probably as more and more supporting factors piled up there came a tipping point (maybe my hospital visit) where there seemed enough reason for this to be worth a shot for her. One important factor that I do not like can be that this way she will always be able to say "Well, I tried, and it wasn't good enough for you". But I must add two more factors to the list and I would like to do that by giving an important update, resulting from our catalytic time together last night.

It is so obvious now that this was never going to work. We were lying in bed lst night, kids gone to sleep. I think I had mentioned that I am a sub type, and it is not my nature to take the initiative. I realise most women like a man to take control in bed. I prefer a domme type of woman who likes to take charge. Unfortunately that's not my wife. So she was lying next to me playing cards on her tablet, and my train of thought started, giving me a few insights that I knew I needed to share here. Firstly, the obvious, that she was not feeling horny. On the rare occasion that she does, maybe 2-3 times a month, she will take the initiative to get what she wants. So the problem with offering herself in spite of not being horny is that, even though this sounds a cool sacrifice on her part (like aren't you lucky, what more could you want?), it puts me into a position where I am being put into a position similar to being told "you can rape me if you want". The point of making love would be that both parties are "ready". If I make a move it is obvious that it is with the ulterior motive of having sex. While that would be true, I do feel the need to move close together, to have our skins touching and rubbing together, and I do like hugging. She likes kissing, but if I kiss her that would also scream the ulterior motive "you're only doing it so that ...". This brings us to the fact that I know that deep down she (and most women) have a problem with that. And this is a huge overarching problem. Like it's some kind of sin to want sex. It is never treated as natural, and this bleeds through into every interaction.

So I asked her openly now, "how long do you think you can keep doing this?" She only said something like "Not sure, we'll see". I have a problem with being "allowed" there unfortunately, otherwise this would've been great. It makes me feel like I am forcing myself on her, even though she consents. Anybody get what I'm talking about here, or is it just me? Anyway, I reluctantly made the move. I was being busy down there and the LO woke up to nurse, so I put my busyness on hold while she did that. We started chatting about stuff during the day. Boy, what a mistake. Men, just shut up and wait, and when the coast is clear, carry on. You can argue after sex, if you want, but I wouldn't want that either, and I know that's where every conversation is going, that's why we don't talk much any more. She still asks me what I think about but I just shake my head. I already know her opinion and her replies and then mine, and so on, we've seen it enough times. She can't accept my thoughts and opinions, and she does not want to understand why I have them the way I have them either.

So it got the the point where she mentioned how I had promised this and that and I'm not keeping my promises. That did it for me, I left her there. All she wants is that I find a job again (even though we would lose more money than what I would be earning) and get a mortgage (tied down, and together, for life). I don't appreciate her offering herself to get that. I wonder what would happen if I just told her: "I never want a job, or a house, or another kid." Would she still keep offering herself. Maybe for a few more days, to hide that that's what it was all about.

This was never going to work. She can't keep offering herself forever with ulterior motives if none of what she hopes to get is ever getting closer to realisation. And the whole concept is just wrong. Have sex when you are horny, no? Make love when you feel the closeness, the attraction. Or maybe she can, just like I (and most men) can offer ourselves daily to be playing their "family" game - I play with the kids, take them to school, prepare meals, etc. - and the not so daily things - let her buy a car when she wants to, go and stay with her family for 6 weeks every year, etc. Am I asking too much? Half hour a day maybe? Is it fair to expect me to do 8 hours in return, and the stresses of a mortgage? Sex should not be a trade agreement. It is supposed to be mutual fun and enjoyment. While I do love giving oral, it quickly loses its magic if the other party is not enjoying it. I do not find it a lot of fun without knowing that she loves it, and wants more. I would like to know that I am doing it well, and I would like to be coached to do it even better. It is just not her thing. She can offer herself, but she cannot make herself want sex or enjoy it. She could pretend and fake but luckily these are not her things. I guess I want a domme woman who is also a nympho and loves oral, and also feels the need for closeness and hugs. Isn't that what every man wants by the way? I'd love some input on that.

I am not sure what to expect after last night, but if this period is over, I honestly do not feel it a great loss, this "being allowed" was definitely not my thing. I soo how it would work for a lot of men and how they would consider themselves lucky if this ever happened to them, even for a while. It does not make me feel wanted though. What I have to offer is not what she needs. I think ultimately what I needed is to be wanted, for someone to want exactly what I have to offer. If you have a nympho wife, who wouldn't want to work hard to keep her? You would have all the motivation you could want. But we all know life's a bitch. You would have other issues, fights about this and that. Which reminds me that this is never gonna work, not with her, not with a domme nymph. So we're back to the original post. What is the solution? Agree to have another woman live with us. Not even sure she'd ever agree to that, she does want me all to herself, I know she does not want to share. But also I know she does not want to lose me. Maybe there are other possible solutions, however farfetched and unlikely. I would like to hear more ideas, I'm sure I'm not the only man on the planet that needs a solution in their relationship. How do you reconcile the need for sex and a stable loving long-term relationship?

A thank anyone that is following this and is with me on this trying to figure out one of life's biggest questions.

BCLW

 

She sometimes tells me, "if you want something you must open your mouth and say something". So last Monday the little one falls asleep and as soon as she does, I said "Let's fu*k." She instantly jumped up and replied with a categorical "no", saying I "always" want to fu*k her as soon as the LO falls asleep. (Duh!) You could tell that she was upset. (The one time I do what she has been suggesting, she doesn't like it - a woman thing I guess.) She rushes out, and comes back after about 5 minutes and asks me "Are you horny?" I suspected a trick question, so I said no to shake her off before she says something like "then go beat one out". She comes back after another 5 minutes with a smile asking "are you still horny?", obviously offering herself up for peace' sake (for another sympathy shag). So I replied "I told you I wasn't". So she just left. Guess she wasn't horny herself.

Now, she usually lets me have about 2 sympathy shags per week (that's all there are as she genuinely never gets horny just by herself). When I try my luck more often she will come up with the usual excuses. So now I haven't made a move on her for over a week now - kind of being on a protest. So tonight she was apparently complaining about me not touching her anymore and asked asked me how long I will be running my little embargo. I said she will get some when she's horny. No response, no action. She's snoring next to me now. I know she wanted sex, but she wasn't horny s such, she kind of misses the physical contact or however that works with her. I have kind of given up on her and our relationship now, for good. As I see it, we are only together because of the kids.

I do love her, but I am also aware that there is a pre-incarnative programming running in both of us based on our karma, but more importantly on lessons we came here to learn. This controls both our behaviours. (Just ignore that if this is not part of your ideology.) We will break up before we give up our "principles" that are the results of this. I will not let "love conquer it all", even though I know it's the right thing and it's what feels natural. I used to give her a lot of true love, but she never "gave it to me" as often as she knew I "needed" (said I wanted) it even though she could've. And her issue is mainly with humility. She does not have much "feminineness", and a complete lack of humility does not help that picture either. She has quite a bit of pride and ego.

I can feel this coming to an end, and even though I know it can be saved, I do not feel it should be saved to keep running like it has for all these years. Love is the only thing it would be worth saving it for, but I sense a different fate. Saving it for love and keeping living the same frustrated life for x more years just does not feel right. I feels "right right", but not right as in that kind of stuff is not meant to be. That old set-up would not provide either of us new opportunities to learn anything. Just stay together for love's sake. I don't think so.

So there will only be sex now when she takes a bit of humility and ask for it because she needs it, and without me eating her out first as I please there will be nothing. If things are to change she will need to start the daily regimen. She has yet to give her first BJ to completion. What kind of lack of motivation will let a woman get away with not doing it once to the one she "loves" for so many years?? Not at the beginning, the good old days, not ever. So now I am on an interaction strike. I do not chat with her about stuff. It's how I (men) truly am (are), we don't chit-chat for fun like women like to babble and gossip. Why play Mr. Niceguy? Now I will be just her live-in aupair working for free purely out of love for the children, but I don't see that going on for too long either. And I do not have a what's next plan lined up, but I have learned, if I had, I'd be in for a surprise and possible disappointment. I know life will surprise me.

It is still sad seeing all this slip, but hey, our lessons are our lessons. She wants to keep playing the "proud and stubborn" role, I keep playing the "sex hungry and even more stubborn" role. I don't even feel that's me. I'd be happy to live in an open relationship, or like I mentioned in the OP, sharing a home with another couple. But I have a fairly good idea of what she'd think of that. And if she were to ever agree, I know she would be wounded inside, she wants to own me for herself and not share me with another woman. Not even if that made that woman and me both happier and meant her and me staying together. Pride again. And ego. So there we are. Just thought I'd give an update to our story.

 

I read your post but I may need to re read it because it was very long.
I like how thorough you are, you really seem genuine and your trying so hard to save your marrage. I love the effort you are putting into it, not many men would do that, they would just go off and cheat or stay somewhat silent and unhappy.

Your idea of having another couple live with you sounds great in a dream world but in all reality, that would be very hard to find. I also think its unhealthy to expose your kids to something like that. What would they think if they saw their daddy being sexual with other women and men? Its not the norm and would be really scarring.
I also think your wife would feel unloved, sad and jealous resulting in divorce.

Its great that your trying to find a way to keep your marrage together, but I think the best thing to do would either be divorce or some kind of agreemant that your aloud to have some one nite stands, but even that is iffy...

I guess this is why people just go ahead and cheat. They want to stay married but they need sex, so they do it in secret.
Im not saying thats ok, but the question is, would she be better off “not” knowing your fucking other people? Getting a divorce? Or better off “knowing” your fucking others, but that you still love her and come home to her?
Personally i would hate knowing that hubby is going out to get fucked and here i am staying home thinking about it.
As for doing it in secret, i think she would eventually find out or suspect something.
So... Im thinking divorce is the best thing to do if you cant live without all the sexual fantasies.
The kids will be fine as long as you continue to be a good dad and be their for them always.

Question: What if you go ahead with the divorce and you cant find anyone to have sex with? Or what if you do find someone and it wasnt as great as you thought?

 

What about going to a sex therapist? Maybe it would help her open up more and be more willing to do things.

 

Dude!, for fuck sake, lifes biggest question???

Funny thing is, if i suggest she has manipulated you every step of the way, i'd be accused of being mysoginistic, even though i'm basically calling you a dumbass, along with 99% of the male population


Lifes biggest question? Should be something to do with what you are going to provide/ leave for your kids, grandkids. Not about when you are next going to get your rocks off.

There will be a third child, after which there will be no sex forever ever ever ever

 

In my life, I am happier being alone and not getting any, than living with a woman who hardly gives me any sex, yet gives it to others when her friends get her drunk, and denies it to my face but hear it behind my back. Especially when I find evidence. Even tried to get her to swing. Big NO.

Life is much simpler and more stress-free without.

Besides, that's what Escorts are for.

 

Thanks for the latest replies. I occasionally drop by to leave an update. It is very late now so this should be short. We haven't divorced. I really don't want to travel with her to her family again. She has a nice family. But I no longer care because of who she is. I do not enjoy sex with her. True, it has turned out that if I show her porn she gets horny and want to have sex, with a high likelihood of wanting oral, even anal, but that is only sex, not making love, and without there being the love part I do not enjoy being with her. By the way I pulled down her pyjamas last night while she was asleep just to eat her out for a couple minutes, then shagged her while she slept, not much different from fucking a pocket vagina. Actually I enjoy pocket vaginas much much more, I can tease myself that way and make it last a good half hour or more and actually enjoy every minute. No negative emotional stuff meanwhile of after, or before. I wish I could get more chance to use them. I use one in bed while she's sleeping 1-2 nights a week now, which is "great".

I admit I see it a nice thing to have kids I can teach love to, hope I can teach them respect and an open mind too, but if I could travel back in time and choose a different path and lose all memories of these years making them "never happened" I would. Not because of the sex part, but because of her lousy attitude, and her not being spiritual is fucked up too. It feels like I am still waiting to meet my soulmate, just have her next to me to practise my love on in the meantime. She sure needs me, but I do not see her making any sacrifice ever. Next day she says she was tired and sleepy. But she will spend half hour on her phone and tablet after we go to bed, even if I am next to her just lying waiting (more like as a test than wanting sex). But then again she surfing on her phone all day, which I hate.She says she has suspended her facebook but she sure does not spend less time on her phone.

I do not see hope with her. I don't care for a divorce, and me leaving is not what my children deserve, they need a good father, which I like to believe I am. I am a conscientious person, I play with them a lot and I show them a LOT of love, and I teach them to love each other and others, and that this is important.

On a side note, I started learning Spanish and Russian, and picked up German again, all at the same time. No reason. And am starting college on a 1-year accountant course, planning to do 4 years in the end to reach the highest qualification. I thing this is the kind of work I'll enjoy. Will find out.

 

Today is (or was supposed to be) sort of a notable day, so I am going to use this post as a kind of diary entry to make sure it will not be forgotten.

Many moons ago we made a funny bet of sorts. It was about me not being able to pick up weight. No matter how much or what I eat I will always stay around 70-75kg. And one day she said half-jokingly, if I ever were to reach 78kg from that day on she would give me 3 blowjobs every day. We have been re-using this joke since then but quite honestly I have not put in any extra effort, mainly because I knew she would not keep to her promise but also because she is hopeless at blowjobs. She will start gagging within a minute, she has never done it to completion. Nonetheless lately she has been noticing a bit of extra weight on me so I joked about with lines like "you're in trouble now", and upon measuring myself I was nearly 77. That was a couple days ago. However, as you guessed it, today I hit 78. So I stood on the scales in my mules and with two big oranges in my pocket and showed her: I have hit the 80kg mark. She LOLd. Then I showed her the oranges, took off my heavy slippers, and the scales told us I'm 77.9. So I want ahead to drink a few sips of my cranberry juice until I got to 78kg. In a silly way pretending she was happy about it she jumped into my arms, much easier than showing being upset or embarrassed or that she doesn't really give a shit.

Anyway the evening came, the kids have gotten to sleep, she went for a shower. I did not really "need" a blowjob as I had a fleslight session last night next to her in bed (she's a deep sleeper). Yes she was sleeping 9pm. I know. Then I beat one out in the morning, and half hour later we did a doggy style so I wasn't particularly horny. But I took residence on her side of the bed anyway with pyjamas off under the duvet. She comes in and lifts the duvet and says "Seriously?" I was not going to have arguments with her, I know creating arguments to put us in a bad mood is one of her strategies, but I have learned not to respond in such cases. So she lies down next to me and eventually says she will do it doggy style if I want her to. I instantly know she is going to pretend that the bet/promise was about having sex 3 times a day, so I do not move and do not say anything. She keeps saying hurry up, so I do not wake her a few hours later like I do once or twice a week. So I actually tell her, "is that what you've been doing for so long, thinking about how to get out of this, and came up with this idea of pretending it was about sex?" and she says, well, what WAS it about then? I say never mind. She insists that I tell her. So I tell her what she said that day, even though we've been reusing those same lines for months and months, she knew exactly what it was about. We lied there for a few more minutes, and I decided I pull off her pyjamas and eat her out, much better than a blowjob, and the have sex. She wouldn't let me, she said she'll give me a blowjob in a minute. Which she did eventually. For about 3 minutes. During that time she stopped about half a dozen times just to show how hard it was to do, and how hard it was to breathe and hold back her gagging. (She didn't actually gag once.) After 3 minutes she stops. Apparently she can't take it no more. No Completion. Nothing else afterwards.

Was all of that planned? That if I am to claim even just one BJ a day I will not get to eat her out, or even have sex, or an orgasm of any kind? Obviously 3 minutes of zero-quality BJ once (or even 3 times) a day is much worse than eating her out and having sex twice a week. Yes, it seems she has made a stupid trade out of it, a trade that she knew I would not be happy with. I am not even sure what she would feel better off with - she dislikes giving head, she pretty much hates receiving head, sex is pretty much a chore for her, she had something resembling sexual desire maybe once or twice a month. I certainly feel let down, but she sure as hell did not seem bothered by it. After the 3 minutes she just got up, lied down next to me, and in 3 minutes she was sleeping.

Obviously she has no intention to even try to keep her promise. I say promise, because of all these months of re-using those lines not once did she ever say that it was only a joke. I know I am a naive jackass and all that and that feeling betrayed serves me right. I just wanted for there to be a record of today, and now I guess I can go back to bed to finish /today off with yet another fleshlight session. Maybe I should start gambling. It feels fair that when I feel betrayed I lose a bit of family savings to something equally stupid. Is this why most men start gambling in the first place? I happen to know that if I were to do that she would give in for divorce. But then, what would I have to lose? If we were to divorce before, I'd end up with nothing anyway. Feels like a fair game. Squander it all while I have access, or double it and run, have a posh holiday somewhere sunny. Come to think of it, I never had one holiday in my adult life, and I'm 34. We go to my in-laws for 6-7 weeks every year in the winter. Hooray. Never had a life I know. I have stayed with her out of maybe some kind of love mixed with some kind of pity. She ain't the hot type, I do not believe she'd find someone nice and loving very easily. But maybe it's time I let her try? (Not that I ever stood in her way. I even advised her to become some kind of escort lady or a prostitute or something as a career change - at least she'd learn something useful!)

For what it's worth I'll observe for a few days quietly without seeming impatient or demanding to see what happens, then confront her when the time is right. I do not really need 3 BJs a day or even one, or even any ever, especially not the kind she gives. But using an occasional quick and fruitless BJ and then leaving me like that to replace sex is certainly a nasty thing to do and deserves to be discussed or at least used as a card I can play. I will have to see how it goes.

How do men that are husbands to such women ever feel motivated to do anything? I wish I could have more ambition and purpose in life, to work hard to prove my worth, but with her, for what? I do not need to prove anything to myself, and I know nothing I would ever do would make her change her ways and turn into a porn star in bed. Then why even try? Because magick and the law of attraction work? I think most men would need a bit more concrete encouragement. I feel like women like her make men depressed and miserable. I feel OK for myself, and could leave without much heartache any time, but I do find having this experience very informative as a window on how fucked up the marriage aspect of the human condition is. (I believe I am an observer soul here to collect info like that through observation and apparently also by first-hand experience, but I do not (cannot) get too involved emotionally.) The only question is, do I need to experience this any longer, or would it be better to move on to other kinds of experiences? I definitely do not feel like I want to be a husband to anyone again, or even settled into a rigid lifestyle. This is just stupid and leads nowhere. Why would any man want this? No wonder most men do not take much part in family life, and go to the pub instead, or gamble, or go out an party and cheat, or watch sports, or have outdoor hobbies like fishing - thing I have never felt inclined to do. Is this the only way a relationship between opposite sexes CAN work??