Seperation of Church and State

Soaringeagle, I am not into politics. If I were, I would choose the zealous Christian over the idealistic bleeding heart. It is not enough to want to do the right thing: one must actually do the right thing - but that is still only part of it, for one must do the right thing, at the right time, for the right reason. Jesus is that reason. Our freedoms; our nation sprang from a Christian obedience to Christ. We are not free to do 'whatever we choose', we are free only to obey. All of your reasoning is built around a core of rebellion - you simply do not wish to be instructed. If you have a desire to do something good, then start small; start with yourself. Bone up on your spelling. Maybe along the way you may come to realize that a true leader is someone with enough courage to do the right thing, at the right time, and definitely for the right reason - even when it is unpopular.

 

I would rather have someone in office who is wise, balanced, honest and just; fanatics may have points but it is important that the decisions that our leaders make come from a place of wisdom and not corruption. The link that Eagle provided earlier, I believe, is an open expression of what a good number of folks hide; to think that there are a good number of folks, some running for and in office, who think in some ways akin to Adolf Hitler without fully, if at all, realizing it because they are afraid of, and do not know how to deal with, the great diversity in our country, and in our world, demonstrate for us that human beings have much too learn.






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the right thing is to arrest everyone who wears heans or disagrees with the church? if i say negotiate peace in the middle east is that not the right thing if i dont do it in jesus's name?

what nation are you reffering to? study your history man, our nation was built by those fleing from religios persecution & being forced to obey something they didnt beleive in..our nation is not in any way a christian nsation thsank god..itsa diverse nation of all beleifs & that is its beauty & the very thing it was built on..if your so bent on a christian nation, become a seperatist & form a christian only nation & oppress all other beleifs..just please dont try to do it here

lol your arguments are lame so attack my spelling? real mature, ok, to explain my spellng, i happen to be aquadriplegic who can only type with 1 finger & i tend to type real fast..& my keyboard is screwed so some keys & the spacebar dont always worl, so, forgive me fr being an imperect human..

but on to things that are worth discussing, so, you'd take that psycho antiporn over me saying its the right thing for the right reason, because he does it in gods name? but dies that make it right to destroy every right this country is founded on? is it righ to throw 3/4 of the country in cells & never see the light of day & allw them to be beatten & turtured & even arressted & jailed just on suspicion?
lets see how you feel when your wonderful christian president allows you to be jailed just cause your neighbor jokesabout you being a terrorist in an mail

if you really want someone to do the right thing for the right reason, look to the things they would do, not how many times they say the word jesus

 

Such a perfect description of christian ideolgy, even when taken both ways!!
Now repeat it to yourself until you get it, danny!!

 

The concept of Church/State Separation is not new as it came from Roger Williams who was the founder of the Rhode Island Colony.


Most of the our Founding Fathers were very clear that they wanted Church/State Separation.

I'm a Christian and I support the Separation of Church and State.Why? The Kingdom of God as revealed in the Bible is a spiritual kingdom based on free choice.God wants people to love and serve Him because they freely choose to do so. The best way to insure freedom of choice is to insure freedom of conscience. Separation of Church and State insures Freedom Conscience.

 

Mry, there is no 'both' ways except in your argument, and you argue merely for the sake of argument. Please refrain from calling me Danny. That is not my name.

 

This is not "argument" danny ~ but keep reading over your quoted statement and you may eventually see the double-meaning.
Oh, and I won't call you "danny" any more either, danny.

 

All but a few leaders of this country are Christian. As far as I see they are a good enough example of why we need seperation of chuch and state. Of course, we have plenty more examples throughout the world today, not to mention our history. Our political leaders pick up the bible and weild christian values when useful, and discard them when it gets in the way. They use and corrupt the religion for their own gain. Is this not a good enough reason for the seperation of church and state? If any one force has contributed to the utter corruption of religion it is government.

No religion can remain pure to it's ideals as long as it forces it's values and ideals on others, whether through legislation or war. People have to choose those beliefs and live that lifestyle on their own. If you force your beliefs on them they will only pretend to carry them, discarding them when easy or necessary, not being true to it in their hearts, and tarnishing the overall value and meaning of that religion. Religion should be a life choice, not a tool to be used when convienent, and not a tool to be used on others.

The religious should be happy and eager to set themselves apart from the rest of the world, rather than trying to force the rest of the world in and ultimately devaluing their own beliefs.

 

All the Christians who seem to think church/state integration are great ideas will rue the day when there are more Catholics/Islamics/other in this country than them and use the precedent to install shari'a or Mary worship or something contrary to THEIR beliefs.

 

Values and morals are a life choice that should carry over from the individual to the individual in service to the greater community. A civic leader should never be void such values. They are called Christian values because they are more often seen in Christians.

 

Yes they were, for the reasons I stated earlier. The power of the US government was meant to be in the hands of the PEOPLE not a church that would dictate the motivation of elected officials.

The sad fact is that it could be argued before the Supreme Court, and I believe could prevail, that the Federal Government is NOT sponsoring Christianity as the standard, but Christianity is sponsoring the Federal Government. It reads "Congress shall make no law..." but it does not read "The people shall not elect numerous right-wing fundy assholes". Perhaps the founding fathers SHOULD have used the specific wording "Separation of Church and State".

 

That's a flat out lie, I'm sorry. You christians always want to take credit for all the good in the world, but the minute anyone reminds you of the christians that slaughtered millions during the cursades, burned or drowned "witches" in early US history, bombed abortion clinics across the US or government buildings in Oklahoma you want to say "Those wernt real christians."

You guys may think you have a good game going on, but trust me, people see through this easily. "By their fruits ye shall know them" and that doesn't include just the ripe, delicious fruits but the rotten ones as well.

And BTW, they are only called "Christian Values" among a christian majority. But christians do not have the sole claim on the moral and empathetic attitude. They we not the first to come up with basic social laws such as "thou shalt not kill" and "honor your mother and father" and so on.

 

Removed from the Constitution? You fuckin kiddin me? Everyone say it with me:

THERE IS NO SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE CLAUSE ANYWHERE IN THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

Go on, show it to me.

 

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Establishment_Clause_of_the_First_Amendment



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That only means congress can't pass a law to make an official religion. Or pass a law saying you can't practice a certain religion. Try again.

 

the "seperation of church and state" phrase came from jefferson in a letter to those Danby Baptists [or which ever group of Baptists] who were controlling the government or something like that...

 

my god can beat up your god

 

McNugget,

In the United States, separation of church and state is governed by the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the Constitution and by legal precedents interpreting that clause. Burbot has clarified how the actual phraseology, "separation of church and state," came about.


Peace,

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"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

Something nice:
"United States federal law (and many state laws) protect the harvest, possession and consumption (but not cultivation) of peyote as part of "bonafide religious ceremonies" (federal law specifically exempts only the Native American Church, while most state laws exempt any general "bonafide religious activity"). "
Something not so nice, but necessary:
"These laws notwithstanding, religious or therapeutic use not under the aegis of the Native American Church has often been targeted by local law enforcement agencies, and non-natives attempting to establish spiritual centers based on the consumption of peyote as a sacrament or as medicine, such as the Peyote Foundation in Arizona, have been prosecuted."
"New" religious beliefs will be persecuted...

 

Not so obviously to you guys, my question asking you to find the "Separation of Church and State Clause" in the Constitution was retorical because it just doesn't fucking exist for christs sake.

I'm all for removing the word's "under God" from the Pledge of Alegence, but stop screaming this "separation of church and state clause" nonsese everytime someone notices a cities logo has a cross on it or a church wants to help out in a government run relief effort. And don't say that because of those they're pissing/tearing/burning/pooping on the Constitution because it's not in there!