Sense of Purpose Without Religion

You presume that we are all involved or interested in a Western religion. Faith plays little or no part in most Eastern thought. I validate nothing, and I believe nothing. When I do so, it is a temporary relapse into the ways of the Western society in which I live.

If the universe was ruled by an omnicient god, he would have no need or desire for worship. He would be self-sufficient and complete in himself. Perhaps this is indeed the case. This idea of a god who wants to be worshiped is nothing more than a projection of human desires and attachments onto a supernatural being, made in our own image, in our own minds.

True religion should communicate to us our own utter and complete worthlessness in the grand scheme of nature and human existance.

Nothing is hardwired into our brains except the desire to satisfy our own wants and needs. Anything else is learned through life experience, education, and meditation.

 

Define "true religion" for me.

 

you should read the bible, son.

and repent of your evil ways

 

I do not own a bible, and I never will.

I should have known someone would ask this, and I should have used a term with a more precise meaning. I can tell you more about what true religion isn't than what it is. It is not manipulative, overly theoretical, or given to wishful thinking. It is not structured to serve the ego or finances of an individual or group that seeks primarily to further itself.

You do not simply believe whatever a Zen master tells you. You contemplate a concept and meditate (zazen) until you understand within yourself that the teaching is true and useful. You must reach this understanding on your own. Only then will he direct you to move on. This process does not easily lend itself to corruption.

The teachings and practices of a true religion are intensely practical.

 

greed and attaining as much money as you can before you die! money!

 

Yes. My purpose in life is to live. How? By living. By being. Breathing in, breathing out. Eating when hungry, sleeping when tired. Loving and being loved. Dying at the end. Religion? That's just one of my tools to get by. Religion is like the training wheels you attach to your bike. Someday you might want to take those off so you can really ride.

 

I like that, well said. According to religion, wasn't the whole purpose of God giving us consciousness, was so that we were free to choose, that is, we can be good or bad if we want. But at the same time, Religion still dictates that we live and act a certain way.... that seems hypocritical to me.

 

While as a self described Atheist after much reading and thinking and tripping I've come to my own conclusions.

As far as I'm concerned there is no god. (at least not in singular form)
Everything...from very very big to very very small works within the same set of mysterious laws and guidelines that shape the universe.
Now I'm not suggesting we have a purpose for sure, but if we do I'm fairly sure it's the destruction of..........did you think I was going to say earth? NO GALAXIES.

a small creature like an ant or a bee has a purpose in life.
It's purpose is to ensure the greater good of the colony. ensure bee survival.
This is fantastic because flowers need bees to pollinate, and other animals need flowers to eat.
It is the circle of life, a very looong food chain, and on top sits MAN.
Man is not necessarily for the survival of any other naturally occurring organism.
We provide no real useful function for any other animal.
We just do like the bees do.
Ensure our own survival, to ensure colony (family in our case) and ultimately the race's survival.
A person does not have a significant purpose in life. A person is a part of a much larger entity.

What makes us different from any other animal is we don't adapt well to adverse environment. Our natural physical features are not typically enough for us to survive in certain areas. (no other animal wears clothes)

And to top it off, we have this never-ending need to expand. A instinctual compulsion to spread.
We have not entirely filled up earth yet and yet despite the fact there is no valuable material on any nearby planets, we invest billions of dollars and hundreds of hundreds of man-hours developing technology so that we can continue to survive and spread more quickly and easily, even into outer space.


We are a cancer and we will not stop at earth. That's what i see coming for human life.

 

:cheers2: This is the Zen answer. Life simply is what it is.

Attaching a greater purpose is a trick that your mind sometimes plays on you.

 

So philosophy and learning of wisdom without all of the insanity and corruption of theistic religions? Why call it religion then? Religion now has the spiritual godfreak connotation.

 

Call it a philosophy, if you like. Attaching great importance to labels is a part of Western thinking, not Eastern.

In my first post, I did not want to rule out all theistic religions as being incapable of being "true" in the sense that I was using the word. I don't know enough about them all to make that determination, nor do I have full knowledge of the experiences of others. For example, if someone claims that an in-depth study and thoughtful application of Islam has greatly improved the quality of his or her existence, who am I to say it didn't happen?

 

I prefer not to mash theism and philosophy into one grouping. Philosophy in its very essence seeks truth and theism in its very essence makes a mockery of it.

 

Couldn't be further from the truth, but ok.....

 

Believing in god even thought you have no evidence or reason to makes a mockery of the concept of truth in my opinion.

 

From your previous posts, that is a completely understandable statement for you to make. I don't agree though, I guess it depends on what you mean by truth.

 

Yeah that's true. I'm just talking about positive truth. Pertaining to what is, what exists, is real, and therefore for me is reasonable to posit. "Reasonable" religious people will never postulate God in debates but instead tend to weasel their way around with normative arguments. They try and debate that it doesn't matter whether God actually exists or not, it is better to believe that God exists because it gives validity to their religion's teachings, and even that their religion's teachings are true for all people regardless of God's existence. I don't think I could live with willful ignorance and self delusion as the basis of my wisdom, and furthermore normative statements are subjective by their very definition, but these "truths" are assumed to be true for all people because of the belief in God's word as absolute truth, even thought God's existence cannot be proven. You can see the fallacy that makes me nutterbutters.

 

Don't lump all theists into one giant category. That's ignorant.

Philosophy only exists because we don't know truth. If we knew truth we wouldn't have a need for philosophy.. so you could also say that that "mocks truth".

 

Philosophy seeks truth honestly. How does that mock truth? What I meant by mocking truth is assuming something to be true dishonestly, without evidence or the use of reason.

And I lump theists into the same category REGARDING POSTITIVE TRUTH because they all believe in the existence of something for which they have no evidence or reason to believe

 

Religion does use reason. And they don't always assume something to be true dishonestly. They do have evidence and reasons to believe. Just because YOU'RE not aware of this evidence doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And the quality in different degrees of evidence can't be comparable. Saying that I believe in God "just cuz" and having some super-paranormal mystical experience can't even be equated. Same thing goes for these dime a dozen atheists.

Philosophy SEEKS truth, but doesn't have it. Religion is social organization of philosophy. Setting up social power systems for philosophy.

Philosophy shows no more "objective proof" than religion.

 

I never said it did. I don't even believe in objective truth. Philosophy seeks subjective truth in an intellectually honest way. Stop putting words in my mouth.

Also, honest belief in that which is supposedly material but can not be perceived can not be arrived at by logic and reason. Actual empirical evidence is required and then the empirical evidence must be subject to reasoning. I have never met a religious person who didn't admit that their belief in God was a leap of faith. What empirical evidence have you found that God exists.