Senator Inhofe outraged by the outrage over inmate treatment!

Discussion in 'America Attacks!' started by Changeyourlatitude, May 12, 2004.

  1. Senator Inhofe addresses the nation and the Senate outraged by the outrage!

    http://news.google.com/news?q=Senator+Inhofe&hl=en&lr=&sa=N&tab=nn

    "As I watch this outrage, this outrage everyone seems to have about the treatment of these prisoners ... I'm probably not the only one up at this table that is more outraged by the outrage than we are by the treatment," Inhofe told fellow Armed Services Committee members investigating the treatment of inmates at Abu Ghraib prison. "You know, they're not there for traffic violations," he said. In the cells where the primary abuse took place, "they're murderers, they're terrorists, they're insurgents."

    Maybe he has something?

    Changeyourlatitude
     
  2. SunLion

    SunLion Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    Well, he's right that they aren't there for traffic violations. If you look at the Red Cross report, you'll notice that it says that 70-90% of prisoners were taken into custody by mistake. They cite US military intelligence officers as the source of the numbers. He's fully aware of the numbers too- he just doesn't mention that a traffic offender, at least, might be guilty.

    He might say that they're "terrorists" but Republicans fail to understand that the act of being Republican and saying something does not, of itself, make that "something" true. It's really a difficult concept for them, but a few are beginning to grasp this.
     
  3. Where did you obtain the information you posted?

    Changeyourlatitude
     
  4. SunLion

    SunLion Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    It's widely reported, but here are a few examples:

    http://www.dailystar.com/dailystar/dailystar/21552.php

    http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/iraq/la-fg-redcross11may11,1,7724354.story?coll=la-home-headlines

    The report referenced is here:
    http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/Sections/News/International%20News/Mideast%20and%20N.%20Africa/Iraq%20conflict/Red%20Cross%20report.pdf

    A good overview from a writer who is generally a hawk but has some real problems with Bush's mishandling of the Iraq war:

    http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2004_05_09.php#002947

    Some suggest that Americans are just evil violent mean people. Other say that's not true, and that these soldiers wouldn't have done those things without instructions from their commanding officers. The truth is probably a degree of both.
     
  5. I looked at the information and couldn’t find definitive information that wasn’t already reported on daily news. The method of home searching and so on. The courts of Iraq will sort out release of such detainees. It’s a time of war and I fail to see detention of such persons, in the case of the small village where the 13 to 81 year old males were held should raise alarm if the village had been violent.

    As I understand the prison in question is for the suspected high level terrorist interrogation and not the people picked up during the war or in home searches unless weapons or ammunition were found for making IED’s. Suspected hard core prisoners with American blood on their hands require interrogation, not brutality but interrogation and no special treatment.

    I don’t believe in the death penalty or brutality. During a time of war innocent persons are detained and that is unfortunate. If it is done as a precaution to prevent further killing and the detainees are not harmed and if neither occurs it is a good thing!

    Changeyourlatitude
     
  6. showmet

    showmet olen tomppeli

    But ... brutality is what they got! Possibly as part of a systemic disregard for obligations under the Geneva and other conventions. Why should we not be outraged at this?! Only prejudice and bias would make someone feel outrage when Iraqi fighters commit atrocities and none when American forces do.

    Thanks to SunLion for the sage words and the links. I'm sick of seeing people try to make excuses for the brutality committed by US and British troops. The people responsible for this are no more civilised than Saddam's regime was.
     
  7. I clearly see no comparison. One guy blows up twenty school kids and another blow up a police station.

    Brutality cannot be condoned for guards or detainees! Harsh interrogation should be the standard for brutal killers! The imagination should be stretched as to the conventions interpretation to prevent such future atrocities.

    There is no comparison even with the abuse as to blown up school kids and police stations. You CANNOT MAKE IT EQUAL! Wrong but not equal!

    Changeyourlatitude
     
  8. showmet

    showmet olen tomppeli


    It's not the place of troops on the ground to "interpret" the conventions under which they're obliged to follow certain rules! "Harsh interrogation"? No, you misunderstand the stipulations of the conventions by which they are bound. Humane treatment under all circumstances... proper judicial process determines if any punishmnet is applicable, either for war crimes or under criminal law.

    Your world must be very simple if you insist on making comparisons or seeing equivalences... there's never been any suggestion that the treatment of Iraqi detainees by US forces is equivalent to the actions of Iraqi fighters... that is so very much not the point it hurts!

    Your argument seems to be - if a prisoner is *suspected* of being involved in an atrocity, then his captors have the right to treat him harshly and commit breaches of international law. This is totally wrong. That is the law of the jungle. You continue to demonstrate very little regard for the basic principles which underpin liberty.

    Don't taint all US military personnel with this vigilante, "eye for an eye" mentality. I currently have very little regard for the military institutions which seem to have allow these abuses to happen, but you just make them sound worse than my most extreme fears about the current state of the US army... hopefully not everyone there sees things as you do.
     
  9. You are politacally correct! And I'll say that publically!

    But in reality, the real world, children killers and police killers would take a plane ride on the way to the Red Cross interview to validate their rights were protected and be offered the oportunity to give information about their comrads and if they didn't I'd file an official report they attempted to overpower the plane and fell out the open tail gate! I would surround myself with people who weren't Politically Correct to collorbate my report. Scum deserves a free ride all the way to the ground!

    Changeyourlatitude
     
  10. Angel_Headed_Hipster

    Angel_Headed_Hipster Senior Member

    That is easy for you to say as an american, thousands of miles away from Iraq, But if Iraq was a superpower and America was a poor, undeveloped country, and their soldiers came over and started locking your family, your friends, and even you in a jail cell for absolutely NOTHING, you would probably be the first to disagree, so don't be so quick to say that detaining innocent people to prevent furthur killing is a good thing, besides, detaining innocent people will only make more violence and killing, that would cause outrage in all of the country and fuel up anger of people who have the potential to kill american soldiers.

    Peace and Love,
    Dan
     
  11. Mui

    Mui Senior Member

    and im sure us soldiers tooken prisoner arent there for traffic violations either... they are there becuase they are murderers, terrorists, insurgents, infidels.
     
  12. showmet

    showmet olen tomppeli

    Then the world in which you wish to live bears some striking resemblances to Iraq under Saddam Hussein ... the only thing that makes you an American patriot instead of a Baathist patriot is an accident of birth and location. Ideologically you are totally aligned.

    People like you give America a bad name. You're trampling over all principles of liberty and justice with a big grin.
     
  13. If I shared a cell with a guy who would kill innocent children or police for his cause in America and lives were saved because of my and his incarceration I would not complain. To do so would endorse murder.

    Changeyourlatitude
     
  14. showmet

    showmet olen tomppeli

    So ... you would sacrifice yourself to save others. A very noble gesture, but totally irrelevant to any of the points being made here. We're talking about soldiers who are in a very safe position, working as guards in a prison, exerting total dominance over their powerless captives, abusing their situation, breaking international law, and torturing with ease.

    Your point is...?
     
  15. Incubus

    Incubus Banned

    This happens in war showmet, you cannot expect every man with power not to abuse it. Its a very small % too. I have read your posts and you love to write about the worst of everything, do you really feel that we should be "outraged" at this? Why? These prisoners were not killed and they supported sadaam... A man who did this regulary, i do not condone what happened but i am not suprised nor disturbed, you all should know thta this is a part of war and theres no way to avoid these ISOLATED "EVENTS"... events being that the media gets ahold of evidence.. I hope they dont get caught next time, heres something for you to take the focus off the topic AGAIN showmet..
     
  16. showmet

    showmet olen tomppeli

    No, it didn't surprise me either.

    So you think that torturing people is just fine too, eh? Well good for you.
     
  17. If I find a tropical centipede that is 7 to 9 inches long capable of killing elderly or young children in my house I sweep it out the door.

    If I find a child molestor or murder in my house he will be taken out the door on a stretcher cold and stiff as would be a rabbid dog.


    Changeyourlatitude
     
  18. LaughinWillow

    LaughinWillow Member

    And I'm sure the Iraqis feel the same way. Welcome to instant karma.
     
  19. showmet

    showmet olen tomppeli

    You are becoming increasingly gnomic in your search for adequate metaphors... I certainly hope you're not suggesting that you regard people in the same way that you regard lethal centipedes. If so you are a dangerous man.

    So ... you're a vigilante? Way to go! Let's dispose of the difficult things that require advanced thought and civilisation, such as an accountable justice system, let's just kill people whenever we see fit, eh? How progressive. How civilised.

    Forgive my scathing sarcasm, but you are consistently representing the kind of backwards thinking which undermines all the principles of liberty... you are proposing a world in which the strong are free to kill those who are defenceless.
     
  20. Incubus

    Incubus Banned

    Senator Inhofe should be outraged! I agre whole-heartedly with his political strategy, LOOK LIKE A HERO, he is so pathetically histrionic in his aproach, it doesnt bother me that the Iraqis were tortured, in fact I agree with the way they were treated, why you ask? many of these photos were taken of interigation investigations. If we must torture a man to prevent the deaths of inocent iraqis than bravo keep it up boys... AS FOR YOU "SHOWMET" you are a sad little person who comes onto the forums not to discuss topics but to argue the integrity of the other posters. stay on topic or stay in bed.
     

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