Self-Sufficiency

Well I have had my own homestead before, traveled, have lived on communes lived in other countries.

I have lived off of the grid for more then 10 years in various living experiments. I have made many attempts of being totally free from society and came very close to it.

I have lived off of less the a thousand dollars a years before and lived very nice..

But I have never been totally independent of the system and met very few people who have.

I have spent a lot of years studying alternative living and I know a lot more then “this person told me that” I have followed the dream and lived it in many different angles and climates and places.

I other words I’m not just talking shit I read in a book, heard on T.V. or “'this person told me this', 'such and such a person did that'”

I live by rural places by people who really make a living off of the land…
They raise quarter horses, cattle and farm thousands of acres that is what you do to make a living off of the land.

I’m not saying it can’t be done… anything can be done it is just a matter of how much work and energy it will take.

What do I do for a living?

I have a few small businesses that I mange to make a merger living from and when those don’t pay the bills I have to go work in the system.

Right now I enjoy having electricity washer dry ect. I have lived off of the grid for many years it is not exciting to me at this point of my life.

I live as cheap as I can in an apartment with a bicycle. Which is cheaper then living off the grid in a Northern climate believe it or not.

 

You guys are truly an inspiration!

 

Hey hippihillbilly... I just thought of something. You guys can teach online (and in person I guess) classes about self sufficient living, from A-Z. You know, the practical steps of how to get started, what all to consider, how to increase self sufficiency step by step, etc. I bet you could do REALLY well with it, as sometimes people need more than just to read it in a book, but to actually have guidance from a person.

Just an idea that came to me...

 

oh dilligaf{my better half) did the "barnyard basics" in the free school here,,{is it even still here?} till she lost interest in these forums.. i have a couple threads on my projects that relate to sustainability around here on these forums,,gardening is gardening,, besides i would consider poor old dad the expert gardener of these forums and he was teaching a class in the free school as well..

to be honest,hands on is the only way to learn and as i said we spent a lot of years opening our home to any and all,,as great as it sounds,,most folks just dont want to put forth the effort it takes to learn "hands on"..

sad thing is,its really not a huge amount of effort..
although we often stay active around here pretty much from dawn till dark,,as you see there are plenty of breaks during the day..
we go out of our way not to get burnt out..

we would still like to have someone come and stay on a long term basis,we just are no longer actively looking.. we still allow folks to come stay for short periods,,just not like we used to and we no longer advertise for either..

so in short,we just dont feel its worth the effort to continue to encourage nor teach those that when it comes right down to it dont have the work ethic or the mindset to do what it takes to breakaway from the system..

 

BTW,, if anyones interested,, TONS AND TONS of pictures here,,

http://www.kodakgallery.com/feelfreefarmproject

 

I wish you guys were closer to us, we'd love to get together with you and learn some things hands-on. Back when we were in Missouri we had some land to play with (it wasn't ours but was in the family) and we learned a few things firsthand, and took some steps on a small scale. Since then we moved to Washington state and now just have a yard where we have a small garden. This is a temporary step, but we're getting our finances together to take a big step toward self sufficiency, pretty much what you guys are doing, only we want more land. I know this is going to be a gradual move toward 100%... and I don't know if we'll actually get all the way to 100%, but we'll try to get as close as possible. That's our dream, anyway.

We're both old enough & have maturity to know what it takes and will take, and all the practical things that have to be done to make it happen. Plus we think it's pretty much necessary anymore.. with the state of the world & all.

 

we actually almost have to much land,, is that possible? nahhhh..

the more land you have the more taxes you pay,,so if you dont utilize it it almost is not worth having oodles of it..

this year we put ours in what they call a conservation covenant because our assessment went up 160%(last time they assessed my property was 94),,we basically had no choice.. while it does put some restrictions on what we can and cannot do here and it prohibits us from selling under almost any circumstance for ten years {the length of the covenant} it will actually drop our tax bill from what it was..
hopefully with the housing crash this area will remain as rural as it is for the next ten years so relocating shouldnt be a issue..

 

Work ethic is a really big part of the problem. Most people don't have hardly any work ethic at all, and as soon as they're not "required" to work, they simply don't. We are maintaining so far a very Rainbow sort of openness, which I'm glad of and advocating, but what it comes down to is that each of us needs to work on him/her-self internally to approach some kind of personal motivation and empowerment to do... SOMETHING!

I get frustrated with it sometimes, but most of us are getting better. I sure do wish we had some EXPERIENCED ELDERS to set a good example for us youngin's! I see it as no coincidence that there is a direct correlation between age and work ethic!

 

On the matter of work ethics and such. Yes and no, it is more then just that. It is a desire and willingness to accept life as it comes from your own efforts, rather then the efforts of others.

The people who 'try' to do this, once or twice or even three or four times, and then give up... Well, that's your choice. Personally, I have found the best way to succeed at anything, including this, is to keep trying, because you only 'fail, when you quit trying.

It's 100% guaranteed that those who are still doing it (whether successful by other peoples standards or not), all have one thing in common, they never gave up and said, "oh it's just not possible."

zihger

Not once have I seen any of those who are doing this making any claims of being independent of the system. In fact, I do believe you will find spots where it has been specifically said you can't do such.

What you said, was not that living independent of the system wasn't possible.

You said,

and other such things. Please either try to say what you mean the first time, or have enough sense to realize you misspoke and correct it, rather then trying to defend a bad position or trying to change your position without admitting it.

'totally free from society', eh? Check yourself against your own words would you?

You seem to use independent (or free) of society, and self-sufficiency as interchangeable terms. They are not. Not even close... and although I would have said that anyone who has made serious attempts at either, would know the difference first hand. But I apologize for that assumption seems you are obviously proof I was wrong about that.

 

hell we always required 2 hours a day,,specified two hours work was what we would do in two hours and we didnt care if it took you all day..

rarely did anyone even piddle for 2 hours much less work..

another major problem we found was lack of self motivation.. we could give someone a project and if we went to do another chore they would simply quit doing what we gave them to do.. it was like they needed a audience to work..

i saw where chronic tom said things gotta get done or you stay cold all winter or dont have running water etc..
thats all well and good unless you want those things and you put forth the effort while others do nothing then the others want to reap the rewards of your labor.. that becomes tiresome very quick..

 

Which was why I agreed wholeheartedly with the giving up on others about this.

I think something should be clarified for those that seems to be bothered by the fact that some of us choose not to welcome anyone and everyone to our homes. I don't think any of us would say no to a person who put anywhere close to the same amount of effort into it as we do. It's when people act like they are somehow 'owed' anything from us.

We open our homes and lives to strangers, on the condition they care as much about their lives as we do ours. Why would anyone be surprised that we have gotten fed up with those who say they will and then expect us to do while they do not?

 

Just out of curiosity, before those people showed up on your property, did they say they were going to work & then just flake out or what?

 

oh yes we had a web page with rules guidelines whatever you want to call them..
everyone that came went through the web page before coming..

the typical thing was,, "oh yeah i wanna help out",,then they get here and its like,, "i dont like gardening",im allergic to the sun",i cant split wood" i have a bad back i cant lift over 10 pounds" you name a excuse,,we have heard it.. "but im eager to help"..


usually all those excuses would come about after they climbed outta bed somewhere between 11 am and 2 pm..

no shit,,we would come down to the main house (at the time we stayed in the cabin and let everyone else stay down here) at 5 am to go to work and everyone would still be awake from the day before.. but they were "going to help as soon as they got up"..
then usually if it wasnt one of those excuses it was "its to hot"

im serious,,this was typical of well over 75% of the folks that came through here...

 

yeah we're still weighing the pros & cons of more land with more taxes vs. less land with less taxes. I'm still rooting for the complete collapse of capitalism and government in all its forms, which may carry with it as a pleasant side-effect the cessation of taxation .

right now is our planning phase as we're going to try to make the move next summer, or the year after at the latest, and we've got several options that we're considering. one thing I'm doing now is focusing on things like making our own soaps, laundry detergent, cleaners, sewing projects, etc.... all those indoor aspects of self sufficiency. also we're designing plans for alternative-energy powered equipment, such as washer/dryer, refrigerator, dehydrator, stove, etc. Plus converting a vehicle to electric (way cool!).

I agree with you the land will probably be available for pretty cheap. I read somewhere yesterday that commuters are moving back to the city because of the gas prices.

 

I have to admit the “good luck without a good bank account was just negative and un productive. I just have that attitude because it is hard to get land without money and be self-sufficient when you have to work 40 hours a week to make payments (the vicious work cycle :-(”
But I never said it wasn’t possible just good luck without a large bank account…

Ummm I was not trying to interchange terms I was just telling you experiences I had that are similar to the thread topic.

I’m not sure what you mean by the rest of the twisted logic you have there….

Chronic logic…?
I’ll take some of what your smoking.. but not before posting.

You seem to have a lot of theories and experience in the subject of self-sufficiency you must have had a few homesteads before?

Please share...

 

we make our own soap.. washing machine is a industrial mop bucket with a ringer on it.. lol

we have a solar oven,solar dehydrator,i just built a wood fired grill and oven outta a salvaged wood cook stove and salvaged bricks..

we are looking into solar panels to hook to the batteries in our camper as it already has a inverter and a fridge etc. in it but i havent really got the finances i can justify for them at the moment..

 

For me, I have run the whole works of them...
The first time I went to start, it was a completely co-operative project with 8 others, purchase, start up and all. I had almost unlimited faith in people then. I put up the money and put my name on the line for everyone.

Keep in mind that this wasn't a group of people from the net, but people I hung out with everyday, and worked together towards this on. The very day we closed on the property, everyone suddenly had emergencies they had to deal with. The very first day alone cost me 1800$ to pay delivery drivers to take 3 loads of tires back. Not only were those tires not supposed to cost us any money, there was a check for almost 2000 per truck in the drivers pockets. $7800.00 gone just like that, everyone suddenly realized that even then I didnt have much of a sense of humor about things like that. Nobody followed through with even the money they were originally supposed to be putting in, nobody cared that I just blew a large chunk of my ready cash. Needless to say, the property was allowed to go back to the sellers.

The second time, having less faith in people, I worked hard to ensure I found the right people, but I still did it with faith that people are basically good and do their best. I didn't count on anyone for the purchase that time, but I still counted on them for making sure the monthly bills would be maintained (which were only to the tune of 125$ a month in total). Once again, it was demonstrated why I was wrong about having faith in people.

Which leads me to this time, where it is my home. My money, my effort, my goals, those who agree with them and say they want to work can come for two days. After that, all depends on how those two days go.

As for whether I expect anyone to show up. I do, in fact, I know there will be at least one person beyond my family that will be there. More then that? lol what can I say, I haven't lost every ounce of faith yet. But I don't expect more, count on more, or even really care if more show up. If people do, and they work as we do, they will have a home and a share in whatever we have (besides ownership of the property).

And although I think some might be shocked to hear this, but I think hippiehillbilly is way too nice of a guy. the second time I hear shit like that, will be the last time that person stays on the property. I'm all for having a good time and sitting back and relaxing and enjoying life. Hell, I consider myself a lazy bastard. If people can't keep up with the level of work I do, they better look into getting a breathing machine hooked up for themselves.

Being lazy is not an excuse for not taking an active part in your own survival.

 

yes we've seen a lot of your pics. great work! very helpful too, we may borrow some of your ideas. my hubby is cryptoman, by the way, I think he may have replied to you before.

 

LOL!

Yeah that really sucked, ChronicTom, especially when it was a group of your friends. Maybe those were just meant to be good learning experiences. I've had a few of those myself and have learned to really trust my intuition when it comes to people. And in the end, we're willing to go at it alone, if necessary. I hope not though. We're kind of orphaned as we don't communicate with either of our families (except for one aunt) so we want to try to find others that will be like family. But even then, nothing is guaranteed.... oh well, such is life.

 

Yeah, well you are definitely better off then I am then, cause I have learned not to trust mine when it comes to people. I tend to take people at their word until it's proven otherwise. When I try to be selective beyond that, I usually tell the wrong people off and let the worst ones (in retrospect) stay.