Self-Sufficiency

cows and pigs?
kind of big-scale thinking, there.
those are just resource drains...plus they're not even cute!
hahaha

 

might as well add horses to that ..because if you are not going to run anything by gas there is no way you will be able to harvest enough hay to keep cows in the winter ..pigs can be raised in the summer and slaughtered late in the autumn ...as far as having cows for milk you will also have to get a bull or someone who has one for stud service ..also means having a barn to keep the calves and someone to milk the cow twice a day ......also need a cream seperator if you are going to drink the milk ...also the services of a vet because TB was a disease that was transfewred to human by cows that had it in most instanses ..then it became contagious amongs humans ............to go back to the lifestyle you describe there it would be easier to become amish ...i don't think in most localities that they still have a lot of horse drawn implements left

 

yes would definitely lean toward smaller animals and only what you truly needed,,,, then hunt anything else .... as well as a buncha other things but dang the repetitive threads get old after a while

 

Yeah, but they remind me of when I first wondered about living like this...

Oh, hey dilligaf, feelfree has a two-month max for visitors, right?
Are there often exceptions to that?

 

yes phrensied, we allow exceptions to that rule,,, its honestly there just in case we have to ask someone to leave because of lack of doing or personality clashes etc etc.......

n i love some of the bigger animals too,,, i miss havin a cow to raise right now but some fence work needs to be done first,,,, horses bahhhhh,,,, not worth my time or money,,, but an alpaca or donkey n llama are on my list at some point,,,for protection / packing purposes...

 

Oh man i am with you on that. I have been thinking the same question for so long. I own 100 acres on the Marmac in southern Missouri. and there is nothing on it and i've been thinking about trying to live on it. but there are a lot of laws that get in the way. like how all new structures must have indoor plumbing. it bites a big one but man awsome luck on that!

 

that's usually just for 'permanent' buildings, I believe.

that's cool about the visitors, too;
maybe I'll stop by sometime

 

Depends on how self sufficient you want to be
You still have to pay taxes on the land you will be living on. So you would require some form of income.
For the most parts I have lived some parts of my life as self suffecient. I grew my own food and sold what I had extra of to make ends meet. Ive lived with no electricity its not fun but I have done it I for one like Airconditioning and a hot shower but have taken my fair share of cold ones as well or gone down to the creek or pond.
No it is not easy yes it can be done
depending on what comforts of living you want depends on how self sustainable you can be and what cost it will cost you in money. Land, housing, seeds to get you started, livestock to get you started, etcetc. Once you have certain things like a house livestock and seeds you can reproduce the seeds and livestock year after year and your house is paid for.
It can be done but it takes time and a lot of hard work.

 

climate, terrain and soil would be huge factors in how hard it would be.

Prickly pears are about the only wild fruit around here. When I visited the NW and saw the wild blackberries everywhere, I mused, "Wow you could live off the berries! you don't even have to work!"

 

Most people would be much better off moving to a normal style country home first. There is a lot less work to be done on one, and most won't even want to do that much...

Self-sufficiency... Totally? Impossible with any form of security, no matter what lifestyle you wish to live.

To start with, someone has to 'own' the land, there are areas you could go and 'squat' for free, but that would fall under the no security part. The land being owned, there will be taxes that have to be paid. In an organized municipality? Add in things like meeting building codes, paying for inspections and so on. Planning on having a mortgage to pay for the property or stuff yo need? Add in insurance on top of it.

We haven't even gotten past owning it yet and we are already where you need cash income above an beyond what is 'needed' to survive.

Now, what are you willing to give up in your quest for self-sufficiency? If you are reading this, you are sitting in front of a computer... assuming you own it outright, you still need power and an internet connection. The power can be generated on your own, the net connection requires more cash. What about a telephone? If you want one, it requires more cash, although it can be combined with the internet one in a lot of cases.

Look at supplies you will need. Do you want to give up toilet paper? coffee?
oranges? 'sanitary napkins' (only the women would care about this we can hope), and other such things. Thats more cash, (or a drastically changed way of life).

Planning on heating with wood? Add in things like fuel and oil for a chainsaw and tractor or such, unless you wish to do it with axes and saws and carrying it by hand or cart.

On the matter of animals... I was shocked to see people saying pigs aren't a good thing? Pigs were nicknamed 'mortgage busters' for a reason. breed your sows so they drop their litters in spring and fall (yes twice a year), the ones in fall sell off as piglets, 15-40$(give or take) a piece in most places. The ones born in spring, let run free range, sell them off in the fall for 100+. As for ease of care, pigs are easier to look after then dogs are, have more intelligence and are cleaner if given the opportunity to be so.

Horses, unless you have large fields for growing food for them, they are nothing but a drain and should be avoided at all costs... Buy a bicycle if you want transportation and don't want to buy gas.

On the matter of milk... You only need a separator for it if it is goats milk. Cow's milk, let sit in the fridge overnight and you can separate the cream off by hand (or siphon). A vet is a good idea for diseases, but in terms of milk safety, if you feel unsafe with raw milk, pasteurize it at home first.

What are you going to do for clothes? Saying you will make your own is great, it's more then possible. But you will definitely put more energy (personal) into making them then is worth, unless you only go part way and buy materials and supplies to do so.

None of this was meant to say it isn't possible, or isn't worth it... It is most definitely worth whatever you put into it, if you stick it out.

There are things that must be kept in mind.


You must have 'some' form of cash income if you want security over the long term. If you produce that income on property, (selling veggies, hammocks, crafts, home grown drugs, or whatever), then you can be self sufficient. If you go outside to work for cash, then you can't be self sufficient. At least thats who I look at it in terms of cash incomes.

If you feel you are sacrificing something that is important to you in order to do it, it won't work. If it isn't something that matters, it's not a sacrifice (although some things can feel that way in the beginning).

Any idea of, what a great relaxing way of life, I'll be able to sit back and enjoy nature... throw it out and jump up and down on it... Can it be relaxing, in some ways, very... Will you be able to sit back and enjoy nature? For brief moments here and there in the beginning, and more after everything is set up, yes... As a general rule... no, you are going to work your ass off. I will point out here that, working to support yourself in that situation, doesn't feel as much like work as a job that you go to, just to get a pay check, or at least not to me.

On the matter of getting families together to do this. This adds in a whole bunch of other issues that all have to be given careful thought to. Especially when it comes to ownership issues.


Is self sufficiency possible? Of course it is.

Not only can it be done, it has been, is being, and will be done. In fact, there are some in this thread who are doing it as we speak, and others who are going to be, most likely even more who have at least attempted it scattered amongst the members at hipforums.

Is it worth it? lol only the person doing it can tell you if it is worth it to them. For me as well some others, most definitely...

Want to find out if it is for you? Find one of the groups of people who are doing it now and ask if you can help. Most will let you stay as long as you are putting as much of your effort into it as they are and try to get along.

If you go with an attitude that someone, (the people already there, society, 'the man', god, or anything else) 'owes' you the right to be there, don't bother, you won't be there long and it will only cause stress for everyone involved.

I should point out that you don't have to wait until you are living in the bush to start. Look around at your life, and identify what you really need, and that which you don't. Start a compost bin under your kitchen sink and grow some potted tomatoes. Reduce as much of your consumption of boughten products as much as possible. Buy ingredients and cook instead of going to mcdonalds (on that note, everyone should know how to bake bread). Stop using your hair blower and curling irons. Turn lights off behind you. and so on and so forth... In other words, try to get your life into a pattern that will fit in the situation you think you want to be in.

 

heya chronic
...a little tongue in cheek for a point...O i would not grow pigs for people to kill and eat when it takes so much less from the earth to use vegetation for your food... anything that brings in money for the community, unless it has a negative impact upon the Earth is viable...including surplus electricity...unless one wishes to be a bit narrow minded .... No ?
the priority should be in living in harmony oneself...not with what others do with what products from such a living that are surplus and therefore can be used in trade for stored energy (money - other goods - to be used later).
As in most things...it is not until you are in the process of Doing that one gets to See what becomes important to the process.

while talking is important for understanding...without it working in tandem with Doing..it becomes wasteful hot air that only exacerbates both in noise and warming....lol

And and in the Doing keep a sense of humor and flexibility, because I will guarantee you 1 thing - it will not turn out just how you thought it would.

Blessings & Love All

Namaste

 

Hey oldwolf...

I actually put a lot of thought into that issue, especially when I was running a small commercial hog farm.

On that place, I was working as a manager for someone else, and everything was done as a commercial operation.

Once I got away from that, part of the reason being that I couldn't find a way to reconcile it with my own beliefs, I started thinking a lot about it.

The conclusion I came to, was that whether or not I raise pigs and sell them commercially, or an actual commercial farm does, the same number of pigs are going to be killed to eat. At least if I am raising them in a manner that they can enjoy their life before entering into the food chain, then I am improving things for them.

as for "when it takes so much less from the earth to use vegetation for your food"

If it was just a matter of raising food for ourselves, I would be more inclined to agree with you on that then I am now.

A pig is not just a walking sausage. It is;

• food
• leather
• guards
• income
• heat
• compost turner
• a rototiller (that doesn't use gas)
• transportation (if you wished) see;

http://www.messybeast.com/history/working.htm
There is also a reference somewhere to an english lord who had a team of pigs trained to pull his carriage lol

In terms of being self sufficient, a pig is one of the most useful animals you can raise in my opinion.

 

gosh man way to overlook what my post was about
I do not believe you deliberately misdirected to avoid, sometimes when we do not answer the post but only our own agenda we are avoiding a change that might do us a world of good.
But whatever...not intended to offend....but intended to be useful....but only the 1 receiving can decide that.

Blessings& Love

Namaste

 

I didn't disagree with the rest of the post oldwolf, I saw no point saying that, but if it makes you feel better.

"anything that brings in money for the community, unless it has a negative impact upon the Earth is viable...including surplus electricity...unless one wishes to be a bit narrow minded .... No ?" Yes I agree...

"the priority should be in living in harmony oneself...not with what others do with what products from such a living that are surplus and therefore can be used in trade for stored energy (money - other goods - to be used later)." Yes, I agree..

" As in most things...it is not until you are in the process of Doing that one gets to See what becomes important to the process." True

"while talking is important for understanding...without it working in tandem with Doing..it becomes wasteful hot air that only exacerbates both in noise and warming....lol" I agree --- An idea unexpressed in physical action is contemptible hypocrisy. --- Ayn Rand

"And and in the Doing keep a sense of humor and flexibility, because I will guarantee you 1 thing - it will not turn out just how you thought it would."
Should go without saying...


Feel better now??

 

Yeah, until the economy crashes it will be necessary and useful to have a small income. Growing things is really the key art in self sufficiency and when you think about it, quite "hi-tech". That is, you're using photosynthesis(much more efficient then a solar panel) to produce items(food, etc.).
In my "stage I" which is the initial arrival to the land(coming in Sept.), it's all about survival. I'm ready to rough it quite a bit. Showers? Bah.
Now in "stage II" I might look into miniature goats and a few chickens.
But there are some awesome technologies that a little income can take advantage of..

 

I love this...

http://www.realgoods.com/product/ca...basic&keyword=music&sortby=bestSellers&page=1

Add in a 8gig memory card and some external speakers and you have a sound system that can be charged up just by winding it...

Even better, plug it into your cell phone and you can charge it up by winding it.

Whether you are on-grid, off-grid, or completely powerless, it means music and communications.

 

chronic tom i must say as one who has been working towards self sufficiency for about 10 years now and is now finally about 85% of the way there,its nice to see someone else post there thoughts based on reality..

far to often over the years here we have seen dreamers with only thoughts in there head post of how easy it would be..

its not easy.. these final steps will be the hardest for us here. finding a grain that we can grow that will be robust enough to supply us with a years flour(we are growing quinoa and amaranthe this year),growing enough produce above and beyond what we need to live and or selling something that we make here to be able to sell to pay what few bills we have,and last but not least,getting a tobacco crop in and finding a substitute for coffee,,(our only vises)..

those things are about all we have left to consider ourselves 100% self sufficient here..i must say its been a long hard road filled with frustration at times,,but like old wolf said,,its nothing a sense of humor could not conquer..

 

How do you pay for your internet?

 

i work.. as i stated we are only 85% self sufficient.. did i not state that part of the last 15% was to be able to pay what bills ANYONE that homesteads has from things that come directly from our land,,therefore by definition being self sustaining??

i thought that was pretty well easy to figure out,,i guess not...

 

you have to remember as chronic tom has already stated in this thread,,for anyone,,no matter how self sustaining they are,,there are still bills that must be paid..
i dont need the internet to survive,, i choose to have it..
but thats really neither here nor there..
the fact is no matter what i still have property taxes,so to pay them,,even if i do it from a sustaining resource here such as vegetables,,i still have to get produce to market therefore still need a vehicle,therefore still need insurance and fuel for said vehicle..

the bottom line is,,,
you cannot do away with the need for money no matter what you do because the last i checked they dont take livestock,vegetables,nor crafts for payment of property taxes..