Satan... biblical hero?

yer the ism bit means 'like' sorta. satanism is what is like satan, a satanism would be any thing that is mimicing (intentionally or unintentionally) or appearing as, satan and waht he means in biblical context.

in otehr worlds its bs, because certain things in the bible should be followed, just not in such a god-reasoning way.

 

What if the new messiah is Osama Bin-Ladin?

 

I think we find heros where we can

folks who reflect our values, what's important to us, what makes for a fulfilling life

way back when, mere survival was critical 'the meek shall inherit the earth' right? I mean, you kind of had to glorify your little mudbrick house and coarse bread with a great afterlife

nowadays we value a very different host of things... freedom, pleasure, money, social space, thought and education.

 

That's probably the most thoughtfull responce I've gotten in this thread.

The values of society do depend a lot on what it sees as being most important to it. A god who could promise you so much must have seen a lot more ideal to people who had nothing.

In my world, I look as revolutionaries and free thinkers as being heros.

I guess it's all perspective. Anyone who looks at the world as black and white is pretty misguided.

 

This can be easily solved looking at the Sumerian Creation story, because alot of Genesis is drawn exactly from this text. To sum it up, there were beings called the annunaki, who are very similar to the gnostic archons. They are physical alien beings, that according to the translation of annunaki "descended from heaven to earth". Then 2 major alien gods came into play. Enlil and Enki, Enlil being the dominating god, a warrior, and a general. Enki, being a scientist, mathematian, astrologer, shaman etc.

Enki along with his sister used genetic engineering, and spliced Neanderthals and Homo erectus DNA with theirs. Making Adam, the proto-human. Originally as a mindless drone, as was mentioned in the earlier posts. They then cloned adam and had a bunch of worker slaves. This proved unproductive, so Enki came up with the idea to make them bi-sexual and can reproduce on their own, the cheif annunaki god Anu didn't like idea. So he fashioned woman and opposite. They then could reproduce on their own, but weren't concious of this fact. They were spiritually minded children, with no free thought similir to angels of Christianity. They loved their creators cuz they knew no other way.

Now although, Enki had made humans, Enlil was put as the lord of Eden, due to his militant and forced submissive style was more popular with Anu the cheif. Enlil outlawed the tree of knowledge, and tree of life. Said they could learn anything else their hearts desired, (which at this time was very little). Enki was their teacher, tought them agriculture, minor ideas of science, astrology, medicine, language,and writing. Yet they were never to be told that they could reproduce without the orders of the gods, on Enlils word.

Yet Enki felt this was bull, and being basically his genetic experiment/children, he wanted them to be as the annunaki were. He leaked this information, they were totally shocked by it. It blew everything off its axis, they knew they actually weren't slaves to the gods but living creatures and basically could be equals with them. They could never act the same after knowing this knowledge, and Enlil was furious and expelled them from this state of paradise.

Now Enki had full domain, to teach mankind of their true nature, and of the true nature of god. Yet Enlil still being the ruler, decided now that humans were getting too dangerous and should be wiped out. So he sent the great deluge, which was obviuosly sumerian long before it was in the old testament. Its the exact same story only Noah is called Utnapushtim, and ENKI was the one that warned him of this coming event.

So basically this is how it went after that, Jehovah, Yahweh, Allah are all practicing Enlil worship, masked in an omniscent god, which the annunaki mentioned as being the origin of all matter and spirit, and everything living contained a percentage of this all pervading essence. THE MONOTHEISMS HIDE BEHIND THIS YET WORSHIP THE WARRIOR, VENGEFULL, DOMINATOR Enlil. They then make Enki, the real creator, savior, and teacher, a bad name. Enki was the serpent in the garden of Eden, Enki was who made humans, and Enki was who alerted Noah of the coming flood, all to just basically make sure his lifes work didn't go down the drain, (pardon the pun).

Now satan is another story, Enki is not satan, he was a god of peace and love and intelligence. Also shamanism, and medicine, indicating that the idea of sacrifice and resurrection is not physical but of the ego, put on by the annunaki, and ego-death is reachable in hundreds of ways. Entheogens, yoga, and meditation are generally considered the hyper fast methods.

Satan is an amalgam of fear, brought on by the Jews then Christians and Muslims. Satan is human emotions, and natural earthly tendencies, mixed with the truth about Enki. It is simply the opposite to Jehova according to them which is complete bullshit. Seeing that Jehovah is Enlil, yet he was vengefull, prohibiting, and dominating. None of which are true characteristics of the creator of mankind, and first savior, Enki. So the bible is basically saying worship Enlil, so this made up mixture of characteristics won't harm you. When really if you are buying into the worship of Enlil, then you are worshipping satan, by all means.

Enlil, Enki, and the annunaki, can also be viewed as the Gnostic Demiurge and archons. Seeing that Enki meant well, be was simply just a traitor if you look at the big picture. They fucked with nature, and the wishes of the all god. Yet it is still not a solid comparison, it definately shares enough to be seen and recognized.

 

Also the Serpent was a Sumerian symbol for Enki, forgot to mention that. It was also a symbol for the double helix of DNA. Showing that the first culture even had knowledge of Science, that was put down ever since Jehovah/Enlil/Allah, put his reign on western culture, forbidding true knowledge, only recognizing him as everything. Which lol is fuckin gay. Thats where the monotheisms wen't wrong, Satan however is not hte biblical hero. Enki was, yet he only showed us the way to salvation is intuitive connection with god. This is why the gnostics can be seen very close with these early stories of humanity. How in Islam, yet does have alot of ture aspects of the divine essence, is still an amalgam of shit. Being a slave to god, is being a slave to Enlil, not the true god. Prohibiting sex and substances, is part of his attempt to keep you enslaved, from free thought, next through fear of an afterlife of misery. Enki wanted to show us how we were no longer physical slaves to them, yet still lived in a state of mental slavery, that we were programmed to have in the earliest days of creation. Like I robot kinda if youve seen that, the three laws of robotics. It would be something similar.

 

Judeo-christians don't like to be shown the Sumerian phase of their patriarchal religion.

Naturally, because Sumerian god's are themselves yet but another phase of patriarchal religious fabrications.

Literally, there is no Satan, nor Enki, no Yahweh, nor Enlil, nor is or was there space-ports where aliens genetically clone bisexuals.

Zecharia Sitchen, by taking a fundamentalist like literal interpretation of Sumerian gods, fails, like all literalists, to realize the nature of mytho-symbolic archetypes.

Patriarchal gods are mytho-symbolic archectypes that reveal the deepest subconscious currents of our neurotic patriarchal fears and insecurities.

Patriarchal religion is always fabricated to conjure a higher authority to authorize the universal enforcement of our patriarchal preoccupations.

Naked Ape, on the other hand, offered an observation earlier in this thread that was far more piercing and to the point of, 'Satan the Hero'.

 

True I guess about the universal enforcement of our patriarchal preoccupations.

Well why does science, and history date to Sumeria as the origin of western civ?
The place of the agriculutural revolution? A short migration from Eastern Africa, where Homo Erectus, and Sapiens descended from according to Evolution.

What phase was Pre-Sumerian? Carbon dating shows the Mesoamerican, and Indus Valley Civilizations only springing up around the EXACT same time, while Mesoamerican could've been a little bit later, and Harrapan a bit earlier. Its also funny they had the same gods, Im sure you know some of Sitchins theories, I consult the actual texts and history more myself.

Maybe so, but what creation was ever like this beforehand? Certainly none of the tribal, weather worshippers beforehand. Yet if you say differently your going against evolution and history. Unless you buy into the racist ideology of the Aryan Tribal Religion. Which is only Nazi bullshit, natural tribes are mostly shamanistic and animists, yet have a patriarchal system only sometimes. The only times you ever see Matriarchy ever in the world is in Tribal Native Religions, such as in the Amazon. Yet even these tribes were being wiped out by the patriarchal societys.

Im just not sure what your saying by this though in terms of the Annunaki, and creation. What else would explain the sudden jump to civilization?

This is true, however I don't think the Sumerian Annunaki were patriarchal mytho-symbolic archetypes. Perhaps the Babylonian Pantheon or Baal of the canaanites and Ishtar etc. These were the first gods to take on different qualities of each of the annunaki and blend them into archetypes.

What neurotic patriarchal fears? The fears of nature, are not completely Patriarchal, many animals the woman is stronger physically calling for dominance, many its the male.

In humans you obviously are suggesting the male. Considering all things in a tribal atmosphere would be violence, or exile motivated fears. To keep you in check. A reliance on the tribe, and the males considering they are physically stronger than the females, whereas in the physical world this is all that matters on a pre-civilization level. Dominance for land, food, and women is whats fought over by men, similar to Lions in a few ways but still. Then if the tribal concept of wealth through other means came around they began social classes and a hierarchy yet not on a massive scale.

I agree with that but dude, thats after obviously noting there are physical differences between night and day and male and female. Life and death are an illusion in what way, the Taoist Idea? A lie about the fears and overanalysis, yet they do physically happen. Im not sure if your talking about a type of spirit or monad that gets masked and forced into bodies and this thing, is beyond this illusionary lie. Yet while in the phyiscal body we are however with this dualist laws. I'd like you to hook me up with some proof of just this piece, Im not sure Ive read alot of religion and philosophy.
Good and evil obviously, is a lie its all relative events, that get labelled.

This is true about the scale, they call it mathematics it is only relative as well. Categories do exist, yet this is only once you get beyond the fact that since everything is sharing this realm with us, it is all one. Noticing differences is the way of the world and Galaxy. The Satan of the bible as you are stating wanted man to equal god, and got 1/2 of the way. He opened our eyes to a new perception yet wasn't allowed to finish. So we were stuck with our natural perception, which IS PATRIARCHAL by the way as far as the human physical form goes, and the requirement to eat and rest in a safe place, where there are more humans than resources.

Our perception got skewed, into this language, and thinking, and all the arts ever, and performing tasks of epic proportion. Yet we didn't get the second part, which has been the aim of religion and philosophy ever since this split of the natural way of life, and into civilizations, and walled cities. We were supposed to become symbiotic. Instead we took the malignant route of dominance of the planet, because this peace between ourselves "cage" is all thats left us from reaching our true potential.

 

Origins of civilization are better understood today than when Von Daniken and Sitchen thought the origins may be extra-terrestial.

Now we know that: ten-thousand years ago the Middle East was not a dry desert wasteland, but green and comfortable with rolling grasslands full of trees.

Today we know that the last glacial retreat caused a massive drought leading to the environmental collapse of the Middle East.

This is the desperate time and the dangerous place where civilization begins.

Civilization begins as a local behavioral adaptation to a severe environmental collapse in the Middle East several thousand years before the rise of Sumeria.

Unfortunately however, where desperation and death threaten a primate's survival and reproduction, the primate reverts back to simple dualistic fight or flight cognitive patterns.

Moreover, the fear-driven mind becomes neurotic in its methodical organization of violence.

Though civilization started as a very local behavioral adaptation, its methodically organized violence set into motion a domino effect that has quickly spread across the entire world.

Agriculture all the way to computers represent not an extra-terrestrial jump-start, but desperate mental-energy channeled into a very narrow dualistic pattern of cognition.

A little mental-energy can take one fast and far down a neurotically narrow cognitive path.

And so here we are trapped in the momentum of ten-thousand years of regressive behavioral patterns.

Nimrod, your interest in the origins of civilization is impressive.

I'm always shocked by how few people realize that this question has the potential of revealing so much about the nature of human behavior.

That's why I feel the Garden of Eden story is the most significant story in the Old Testement.

 

Well hey are you denying we landed on the moon?

In this modern day of space travel is it that hard to think that we were a result of alien intervention? Some sort of super alien virus people, that made us like them, and left us in a state of spiritual weakness and dependance on them. Yet installed us with all the virus capabilities we are proving to show in modern society. We have destroyed alot of the natural world that created us. However, there is still a good portion of wildlife left at least, and thank god for the radical left wing democrats or else it would all be gone. I dunno, how else you can explain the radical jump of civilization though? The sudden learning of the knowledge of the universe in the case of the Egyptian Pharoah Akhenatens religion of Atenism, which you can comment on at this post I made here
http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159105
even though he was an 18th dynasty Pharoah, still knowledge of heat and lights power in the solar system would not reappear untill the 1500s.

How would you explain the pyramids were built? Whose carbon dating even predates the first dynasty of Egypt? How would this be possible? To go from hunting and gathering, to internal warfare, agriculture, herding, language, and proto-Alphabetics for writing. Then even take the step to building massive structres, and walled cities, and temples? Then even the Pyramids, which a task that can't even be matched today with the same materials and supposed methods.

 

Where are they?

I've never seen any aliens except in the mirror.

And I don't think anyone else on this planet has either.

True, civilization evolved quickly, but not that quickly.

Aliens capable of interstellar travel are going to teach us agriculture with stone plows??

Teach us writing by showing us crude chisel marks that in the beginning are barely sophisticated enough to indicate the number and price of goods traded?

Are these interstellar aliens so pathetically fixated by death that they would teach us to pile a heap of stone over a hundred feet high for a mausoleum?

NO! But death-fear would, and death-fear is the teacher of civilization.

Why aliens? Because civilized man is an alien in the deepest sense of the word.

Civilized man is an alien in his own skin.

Alienation is the one word most often used to describe the human condition of civilized man.

Where ever he goes, civilized man is an alien-invader.

Alien-invaders from outer-space are a deep sub-conscious mytho-symbolic representation of our selves.

 

absolutely...

 

Ghost

Yeh..i agree too.

Occam

 

m6m did you answer my question? Do you think we landed on the moon? First off cuz I can't argue with you if your this much of a conspiracy nut that you will say the moon landing was a hoax.

Read the book the Genesis race, and it will give you some insight as to this, much more reasonable than anything David Icke or Sitchin ever said.

Of course, they could teach use agriculture with stone plows. As this would be the number one factor in keeping something rudimentary at best, what else would we use to make something when steel wasn't being used at the time? For obvious reasons, this is the whole point of a secret, to keep those out of the know literally "out of the know". Why would they have revealed all of their technology, if they wanted us to be their slaves? Making us equal to them, God only made man in the image of HIM. Or has Genesis 2 says THEM. Because it refers to the Elohim, which is plural, totally different from the god mentioned that created the universe.

http://it.stlawu.edu/~dmelvill/mesomath/Numbers.html
Numbers were written out with great detail yet they were sophisticated enough, and really wouldn't change until lthe Arabic Numeral System. Roman Numerals, were just as long to write out.
What do you think they would be taught to make pencils out of wood? To make a pen out of plastic and ink? What would you teach a mentally challenged person nowadays? To write as simply as possible, the numerals were a verticle slash and a horizontal one.

No, because the Pyramids were not really temples to honor death. They were astrological, and astronomical markers. That mark close to the exact center of the Earth, and align with the Orion constellation.
They are also symbols esoterically for the simplest method to find Phi geometrically. Using an equilateral triangle, and an imaginary circle. It is a building block in the initiation process of the secret schools for the wealthy that went on in Egypt. Another method of finding Phi, which is the golden mean of all of the known Galaxy, and most likely the entire universe. Is by using a pentagon, and its interior pentagram. That can go forever down to sub molecular size structure. To a point even, exactly the same as the supposed Big Bang of the Universe, spawning from an initial point, with no dimensions.

Why were Adam and Eve so perfect before the biblical "fall". Cuz they were like animals with superior bodies for advanced tasks. They did not realize they were alive, so they had no death fear. These foreign invaders then tampered with us making us worthwhile slaves. Then according to the Sumerian Texts Enki, wanted to free us, and gave us the Biblical tree of knowledge. We awoke, to frightening world, that we looked at before for what it was instead of over-analysis. We realized we were alive, yet we were still under their spiritual parenthood. Then Enlil, planned a flood, as we were going to learn the Biblical tree of life. Then be as one with the gods. Which were alien beings called by the sumerians the Annunaki. Now were stuck with the fear of death, and acknowledgement of life, yet we never got the rules of the game, and the point. Thats why we were afraid, the only other way we could've naturally developed this fear was through ingesting psychadelic mushrooms by the shitload. Which since drugs today make you really less aware, and stupid minded we would've easily been killed by predators or ourselves.

So you beleive we naturally took on this virus mode? We just evolved into predators against the planet that created us? I agree civilized man is an alien in his own skin because were one step inbetween animal and Annunaki. We are aware, yet not enlightened. Which is a scary place to be. You were agreeing with me on this point. This does not point to natural evolution. Take the microcosm of everyday life? Do accepted people that are always treated well, and have a good body and a good life. Are they the ones Generally ( dont make this into a psych babble debate) social? Un-alienated to the rest of his kind? Then even more to the planet? No you need a major catalyst to develop alienation problems. Anti-social behavior which according to evolution would be the only thing alien to a community based social primate like early man? Am I wrong? The definition of Alienation, is Emotional isolation or dissociation. If the general populace were alienated would we have even survived the survival of the fittest? Considering everything says we were pack hunters and gatherers. Now if this is how it works in everyday life, how can you say its differnt on the macrocosm level? Without destroying all concepts of duality which are as clear as night and day. What would be the cause of this alienation then?

You simplify it with the death fear. Which is unnatural to have only spawned up in one species. Without foreign intervention.

Or you take the ideas of Mythology to seriously, and can't think for just one minute that their could be a literal truth behind it all. The fact that all the polytheistic civilizations beleive in many gods that can inhabit, or at least be imagined in physical forms. Even the monotheisms, recognize angels, demon, Jinn, archangels etc. All with physical forms.

Its a sub-concious MEMORY FROM THE PAST. Not a mytho-symbolic representation. The Pyramids of Giza are a symbolic representation.
Because in fact, the invaders were always thought of as HUMAN IN APPEARENCE. Even to the Sumerians, Mayans, Indians and Aztecs. They were human in appearence, capable of being easily represented in human form.

I'd like to hear how you think this all could've magically formed out of nothing? Slow migrations and tribal warfare, with sticks and stone weapons? Turn into mass fields of agriculture, and bronze, language, writing,math, science, MODERN ASTRONOMY? How could the Mayans see so far into to the sky, without modern equipment? Why did they even care? The simple fact that these creators, that taught them all this. Came from the stars, and said they would return one day.

 

Also, how did the Dogon tribe of Africa know about the constellation of Sirius aka the Dog star (Dogon) hundreds of years before astronomy?

Your right though, about how aliens are really us, because the aliens of course take the form of humans, or, quite possibly, humanoids themselves, without the disgusting slowly decaying ape-mammal body we're trapped in.

 

Excellent point mang, about the Dogons. They too beleive in physical ET creatures. It is a common theme relating all mythology. Whether its truth or just archetypes of the human condition and experience. Your gonna have to come up with more proof for the latter m6m.

 

So m6m I take it you beleive in alien contact now. |

GLAD TO BE OF ASSISTANCE! IF YOU EVER HAVE ANY TROUBLE IN THE FUTURE NOW YOU KNOW WHO TO CALL!

Yer Budd E!

NIMROD!

 

Celestial obsession is exactly what one expects from those whose effeminate death-fear has turned them into the anal-retentive control-freaks we call civilized man.

Direct kinship to celestial gods is how the most fear-driven justify and enforce their effeminate authority and control over the superstitious authority- seeking masses of civilization.

Direct kinship to the orderly and harmonious movement of celestial bodies across the sky inspires the superstitious through its powerful contrast against the chaotic struggles of our everyday terrestial life.

Ability to accurately predict celestial events and their terrestial effects such as planting, harvesting, tides, floods and eclipses is an astronomical knowledge kept from the masses to prop-up the authority of alpha-male hierarchs.

Well fed classes of priest-astronomers rose to foretell the actions of the stars and to claim both the ruler's direct kinship, and their direct communication with the celestial deities.

Well fed priest-astronomers had nothing else to do but increase the accuracy of celestial observations year after year, generation after generation, and century after century to maintain their well fed position within the hierarchy.

Pyrimids are nothing more than superstitious mausoleums of effeminate death-fear, and positioned in relationship to astronomical observations, because the eternal harmony and order of celestial movements sybolizes the possibility of an eternal after-life.

Archeo-astronomy is a science that I think would really interest you.

Perfect, because before fear seduced them into a civilized state of knowledge, they were fully alive in a fearless state of nature, an existential state of being.

Adam and Eve, like children, were fully alive in the spontaneous perfection of nature, and were alive to the here and now of the eternal moment.

Once they were seduced by effeminate fear, they became too hysterical to perceive anything beyond the exaggerated extremes of dualistic opposites.

They became fixated by fight or flight opposites, and regressed back into the reactionary monkey mind.

In this mind, Ego begins a dualistic object-subject separation; the separation of the knower from the known, and the objectification of every relationship and every experience we will ever have in this life.

This is the ubiquitous alienation of civilized man.

It is natural and biologically determined, but it is not a virus.

Rather, it is an inbalance of our psycho-energy as our neurological patterns of behavior attempt to adapt to an environmental collapse.

Even you can see Sirius around the summer solstice as it rises before the Sun.

 

i like m6m's sensable answers. but i feel that questions about 'satan' and christianity, belong in the christianity sub forum. not in agnositcism or anything other then western monotheism, which (christianity and islam) is the only thing they have anything to do with.

=^^=
.../\...

 

Shut up themnax.

M6m what do you think was this "satan" this catalyst that brought upon our death fear, that we didn't have before?
You bring upon good points, but what caused this? What if the alien intervention came iva spores from outerspace, popping up inot psilocybe and Amanitas mushrooms? Terence McKenna beleived in these theories strongly. That psychadelics were what caused this unnatural fear, and anyone that has taken trips, and even smoked blunts to the face. You feel an unnatural paranoia, and fear. Would you accept this as the alien intervention? Psilocybe Cubensis as well as all psilocybin mushrooms are not native to this planet. Only the Dmt that is inside can be found in other parts of nature, and it is proven a spore is the strongest thing in the universe. Unbreakable and can even last in space forever untill it finds a suitable climate to develop.

Would you agree with this? There must've been a catalyst, and time and weather weren't it. Even stanley kubrick, shows the monolith in 2001 a Space Odyssey. Fire perhaps could be it, like in Quest for Fire that flick, but that wouldn't cuase a death fear.

First I'd like to know if you beleive that god created us or evolution, you seem to be leaning towards science and evolution.

How could they be perfect during the garden of eden? Then awaken into a world of death-fear, yet then revert to the reactionary monkey mind? Are you saying they devolved? According to evolution this isn't right. Before the garden of Eden they lived in monkey mind? Which is an animal mindframe, and can't perceive anything like this. So your saying that we became more intelligent, yet devolved emotionally? Still what would be this major catalyst, because man didn't all the sudden develop fire. It had existed naturally for a long time, then slowly people learned how to make it on their own, instead of having to make sure it doesn't go out.

You didn't explain what caused this radical un-natural change.

So you are saying its our "Fate" by all sense of the Christian concept.

What environmental collapse? This was a human mindfrane collapse, not environmental? Maybe an environmental change, or a perception collapse, but imbalance of psycho-energy is a viable factor in the psychadelic evolution case. What causes such a drastic turn?

So your basically saying we lost the ego, then reverted back to the reactionary monkey brain and developed it again?

Thats not right though dude. It was about astronomy, and sacred geometry. Proving the Pythagorean theorom thousands of years before Pythagoras "invented it". They were mausoleums to the connectedness of life through a grid matrix. That all things were made of shapes, physically and geometrically proving that their was something behind it all. It was a way to measure Phi, the golden mean. Which was known in the ancient schools, as being the geometric "spiral shape" that was universal in all life.


I do agree with your theory, but it just doesn't explain the advanced "truths" that were around in ancient times. That were only proven after gallileo, and are still being proven in modern day. You need to explain then what the catalyst was that caused this sudden boom of knowledge, and death fear.